weeebell

iTrader: (1)

I recently bought a 51 plate WRX (uk300 lookalike) with 98k onthe clock. Its standard apart from a decat 2.5" system and prodrive backbox.

However, having just been blown to bits by a remapped Vectra VXR I have bought this weekend;

H&S heat wrapped decat downpipe
Decat stainless uppipe
STI pink injectors
Walbro 255
K&N panel filter
Alloy Y-piece

and will be buying either a TD05 18g or a VF35 before the remap.

I'm just looking for thoughts on whether the engine will be able to handle the power hike as I'm looking for around the 350/350 mark. I know the clutch will probably give up after a matter of days but santa is bringing me one so thats ok.

Has anyone ever done this to a higher mileage car?
Thoughts please

wiley

iTrader: (63)

similar mods to mine, apart from i'm getting a FMIC... hope to be getting 350 after fitting my simtek

wiley

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

you'll need a different intercooler as well

I favour the STI top mount, after having tried an autobahn 88 fmic. No problems with charge temps when they were measured and excellent driveability

chrisUK300

iTrader: (10)

Id factor in some decent brakes and suspension upgrades if your gonna be running 350/350. In fact Id do the brakes and suspension before any tuning work, it will transform the car.

Your getting into gearbox breaking territory at 350 too and thats an expensive road to go down

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Esp. with a 7yr/91k motor. IMHO you're better with a VF35/34 (35 my choice) but as said, there's still more to do to be able to use 350 fully.

Min, rear 22mm adj ARB and solid drop links, uprated springs with full geometery setup- ~£500.

Then the brakes will need some work and imho, the 4pots, even with uprated pads/hoses and fluid still aren't up to it.. So to be able to confidently use that sort of performance a big brake kit is the only way.

Why not lower your goal a little, say 280/290..? That way you stick with the TD04/std injectors (sell STI pinks to fund an STI TMIC). A decent remap will result in a very fast road car that will really shift from low revs to about 5k, therefore not over stressing the 91k engine any more that nec.

Having been there and done it, the difference on the road (between mega fast spooling 290 and fast spooling 330-350) is negligible, but the cost is much higher..!

It'll still be quicker than 99% of the cars on the road..

Either way I'd not be fitting a TD05 18g to that car without expecting some BIG bills in the very near future..

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I'm not having a dig at all, but why would you need to upgrade the brakes just because you're upping the power?

The extra power means you'll be accellerating faster, sure, but it doesn't mean you'll be driving along any faster really, does it? Even the standard brakes + pads are powerful enough to lock the wheels up at past 70mph, so the breaking distance wouldn't be down to the brakes anyway, but to the tyres.

I'm running a bit more power than what the OP is aiming for, but I dont' find myself actually driving at higher top speeds just because of it, although I do reach my target speed a lot faster than I would have done earlier.

So IMO, unless you think you're taking it onto the track or that you'll be going a lot faster everywhere when you up the power, I don't see why you'd need to upgrade the brakes at all.

Also, I believe 911 used to hill climb his 380bhp STI using just upgraded pads and lines, and he didn't exactly hang about

Tidgy

you'll be lucky to get 350 out of vf34 or vf35, get close yes, but very unlikley to go over (although not impossible, most who claimn the figure get shown up further dopwn the line))

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Grahams (aka 911) classic is/was a striped out classic, so weight wise he'd be in the region of 300kgs or so lighter than a road going newage..!

What I found with the std 4 pot, even with uprated pads/hoses and fluid was that I braked a lot earlier for fear of running out of brakes, which happened more often than not.. The caliper just can't dissipate the heat.

Unless you've changed from one to the other, you may well 'think' that you're brakes are ok, but believe me they're the weakest link by far.

I was genuinely astonished after having my AP's fitted and the car felt like I'd added another 50hp, simply because I could use every ounce of power without worrying about slowing. In essence, confidence..

Anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to come for a ride and see for themselves..

Ste RB5138

Some good advice there, I am at 278Bhp on my TD04 and keep wanting to upgrade the turbo.

Are 6 pots the only brakes you recommend fitting, running that sort of power?

Brakes and P1 suspension first for me, I reckon

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

view my scooby

dash dyno after the map came out at 344/343, getting it on a RR this weekend for more realistic figure

Hoppy

Just be fully aware of what you're getting into here. A 350bhp car is easily achieved, but a properly sorted car takes a great deal of work all round.

There is tons of info on here, but I will just say that a TD05/18G is very capable of ripping your (5sp?) gearbox to bits. I've just had 1.5 bar taken out of the midrange to save me from a third gearbox rebuld. Still 340bhp at the top

And the comments about brake upgrades are very true. If you use your car's new performance, you will be going very fast, everywhere. Silly speeds are sooo easy.

The OEM brakes are not the best but will stop when you hurtle up to the first roundabout at three figures, though they won't like it. The second roundabout comes up in double-quick time and halfway into your approach the pedal will go to the floor and you will be out of control and heading for something very nasty. Unless you are a saint (saints don't usually drive modded Scoobs) this will happen to you sooner rather than later. It's less about power, more about cooling.

Cheers,

Richard.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Hmm, I never had any problems with the standard brakes even when in a hurry, but admittedly I was at standard power levels back then.

I'm now running 8 pot ksports, and they are indeed very, very nice brakes, but I don't think I drive any faster with them. The main difference i notice day-to-day is pedal feel, IMO. On a track it's different as you reach much higher speeds and have harder brake zones than on a road, and you go for a lot longer than on a normal b-road blast (and you can hold higher speeds through corners as you can see around them -> higher speed at next brake zone).

IMO even k-sports are complete overkill for the road from a performance point of view, but they do look nice behind the wheels

Hoppy

No. 6-pots is only the caliper. And the caliper only squeezes. Good brakes are about cooling, first and last.

The most significant contributor to this is the disc. It needs to be big, to absorb heat, and well ventilated, to get rid of it. Two-piece discs are also better, with an alloy bell, as they allow the disc to expand evenly to prevent warping/coning. If you track the car, single-piece discs will probably fail pretty soon.

All of which explains why something like a Godspeed big disc conversion, with alloy bells, plus a pad upgrade but using OEM calipers, is such a cost-effective solution.

I have AP 6-pots, which are stupendous. Not only do they stop pretty well, but they do it time and time again, retaining good pedal feel. This is because they have big two-piece discs, plus alloy calipers which dissipate the heat quicker (they are also much lighter, but that's a handling issue). Also, they have massive pads which also absorb and dissipate heat a bit better. Oh, and big discs give more mechanical leverage which obviously stops you better still, but also gives you more feel in the process.

IMHO, with brakes like these, pad compound is more about personal preference than sheer stopping. Don't fit cheapies - they are often crap and always wear very quickly - but I use different pads front and rear (which are still OEM) to moderate balance more than anything else.

Cheers,

Richard.

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

I'm looking at the godspeed big brake conversion when my OEMs wear out. Unless I'm feeling rich by then I'll stick with the 4 pot calipers.

Brun

If you want 350/350 simply for the rush then forget the brakes. Some people such as myself have no interest howling into corners on the brakes - it's all about the acceleration

weeebell

iTrader: (1)

Some good comments there, thanks for the replpies.

I think I'll be going for the VF35. As for the brakes, definately need Brembos. The 4 pots heat up and loose performance to quickly. I had Brembos on my Evo and they were phenominal!!

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

What's often overlooked when comparing road to track braking is this, yes the braking on track is much harder, but if you're doing it right, you're only on the pedal for a short time. On the road you use less pedal pressure, but are on it for a whole lot longer (perhaps 3-4x longer). Therefore, heat build up can be higher when braking from high speed, even if you're not exactly giving it the full beans..!

This is what I found (along with quite a few other 300+ wrx owners on here), steady braking from say 80ish, a few seconds on the pedal resulted in a horrendous noise and I ended up having to press harder as retardation diminished..

This was steady cruising btw, anything serious just ended up with sweaty palms/poor confidence..

FWIW I have AP 4pot 330's with DS2500 pads (Goodyear F1A's) and they make my eyes hurt..

Hoppy

That's rubbish mate. You are saying that road braking somehow builds up more heat because you press the pedal gently, but for longer... Stopping a car requires a certain amount of kinetic energy to be absorbed as heat. Time or pedal pressure doesn't really come in to it.

But that aside, most road cars are perfectly safe on the road. Obviously. They can handle an emergency stop okay. But on track, you are effectively doing a rapid sequence of emergency stops with no cooling time inbetween. It's the rapid frequency without cooling that does the damage, but you don't really get that on the road. Not all race tracks are total brake killers - Donington is a braking ba5tard, but Snetterton is relatively easy on brakes are there a long straights for cooling.

Richard.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I know that the track is ultimately harder, much harder for some tracks/drivers, but what I meant (and looking back at my post, I probably didn't put it right..) is fast road driving is very demanding too, but for different reasons (weight, driver ability, road condition etc...) and this is often overlooked.

Any modern car should be capable of stopping easily from 100mph once, maybe twice. However, what's the point of modding a car to produce 300+ if you can't put more than 1-2 corners together..? Say a nice open B road on a Sunday morning, you'd end up in a hedge, if you're lucky..

Why do STI's come with better standard brakes..?

I'm going on my own experience, I don't do any track days, it's just based on my findings in my car, which I consider to be a very effective all round package, as planned..

As I said, anyone who doubts the difference proper brakes can make to a road car is welcome to come for a drive (no silly, reckless driving, just some nice twisty NSL B roads..).....

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

CJ over on southeastscoobies • Index page is running 400bhp on a bugeye WRX, and still going strong. Think there is a fair old right up on how he got there. Might be worth seeking his knowedge, and might just save you some time and money in the long run.

Brun

Because some people want different things from their car. As i've said before, i wouldn't touch the brakes if i went beyond 400bhp - my driving style simply doesn't warrant it.
Exit corner and feel the whoosh - off the throttle and glide into the next corner - repeat as necessary

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough, each to their own..

It's good for the people asking the questions to see different approaches, they can then choose what's right for them..

Brun