chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

remember an answer to my original tappets probelm a while back stating to do more frequent oil changes. was going to have a good mechanic friend of mine do one in a week or so, but without sounding like a clunk, would a different grade o oil help the tappets problem at all?

ive tried a search, mainly with the answers for general use being 10w-40 of varying brands. ive heard some go as far as 10w-60 too.

so for my usually pootling around style of driving, and my noisy tappets, and the fact ive tried the search engine for help, what grade would be most suitable for a my99 turbo. the car isnt modified bar a decat/dump valve. last service was in july, and it will be having a pretty hefty service come jan for piece of mind...

help appreicated.

oh and ive looked in the manual, and it seems around 5w-30/5w-40, but that seemed low...

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

bttt

Eprom

I used 10w-50 fully synth and it runs fine, this is in a MY99, I think 5w-30 is to thin for a classic, and not recommended for sustained high speed driving.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

what about 10w-60. think jase @ scoobybits uses this for servicing now. millers which is supposed to be good sh*t is it not?

andy

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

David from API posted some way to improve the noise, might be worth dropping him a e-mail to ask

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

i remember reading that giude. but considering the car will be getting a "biggish" service come jan time, i dunno if it will be much use in october. i may change the oil, and make sure its nothing contained within, ie metallic bits.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

w stands for winter. 10w30 means that its 10 weight when its cold and 30 at operating temp. 10w40 means 10 at cold and 40 at operating temp and so on.

Using a 10w 60 would mean the oil is thicker when hot,which is not always good as thick oil may not lubricate as well,so using a 10w 60 to quieten down the tappets isnt the way to go, the 10w 30 would be, BUT, this then has less oil pressure to the 10w40 or 60 at high temp etc

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

but then again,it depends on how it works in the engine, dpends how quick the oil can get pumped round, the thicker 60 weight oil when hot would quieten the tappets,but then again it may not as it cant get thru quick enough,if ya get me ?

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Well this might be of interest as your my has solid tappets so oil flow is not the problem as there is no hydraulic lifter there to fill up and quieten down.......

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

interesting,what yr did hydraulic tappets stop then ?

cheers

rigga

iTrader: (4)

About 97 according to a recent post by David at API..... any engine with indervidual coil packs more than likely to have hydraulic lifters... any engine with a single coil pack will be solid lifters.... just done a search to check and realised chocolate_o__brian will already be aware of this as he posted on the same thread....

Area 52 Autosport

The W is doesn't (exactly) mean winter, it means Weight. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use, but it relates to the oil weight (viscosity).

I'm not familiar with these earlier problems, but would suggest that if the tappets are that noisy, and that they are hydraulic tappets, the best bet is to pull the tappets out, dissassemble the hydraulic tappet assembly, and clean them out thoroughly. If they are ticking, it's most likely they have debris in them, and this is the best way to clear the problem.

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Mike....... solid tappets on this particular car so there is something else amiss to cause the tapping noise.

Area 52 Autosport

Cool, far easier then (in that it's harder to fix).
Engine out, inspect and adjust tappet clearances, if they are wrong causing noisy tappets, a heavier weight oil will not make any substantial diference to the base problem.

A lengthy job at best. (Because lengthy means expensive).


Mike.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

and for all the hassle of dropping the engine out etc, its easier to get the whole bottom end rebuilt, so ive been told by jason. around £2000 he said as a rough price. my main objective with this thread is just to use the best oil grade for the engine and situation, like a compromise, but without risking a blow out etc.

i dont drive the car hard much for the tappets alone. theyre very noisy asfter a little blip, and take time to quieten down while the engine cools.

as with the other thread on here re. my gearbox, this is why i pootle round most the time. until i can afford a gearbox rebuild at least anyways. see how both threads on gen tech tie-in with each other. simply havent and wont have the funds for a while to get both jobs done simultaniously, so probably the gearbox first, as ive had opinions saying noisy tappets can last for a while with my driving style anyways.

Area 52 Autosport

I don't see how spending £2k on a bottom end rebuild will fix a tappet clearance problem (which of course it won't)?

As for a bottom end rebuild, even with the big ends gone we only normally charge circa £1.4k for a bottom end re-build so £2k is "ambitious"?

Mike.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

well im going on what jasons said to me, apologies for the bluntness

for all the labour costs involved in dropping the engine, and what i can remember of the conversation about replacing seals/rings etc, this is what was discussed.

whats your take on it then, as biulding a better idea is my aim.

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Tis a point..... as a bottom end rebuild would still use the original heads where the noise problem lies....,a full engine rebuild on the other hand would cure the tapping noise AND have a strong lower end for future use/mods...... be hellishly expensive though.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

right for a retard such as myself, can someone in basics, explain what a bottom end rebuild entails, what big end bearings mean and any other engine rebuilds are. im really miffed now, as all i bloody want is my noisy tappets to **** off so i can enjoy my car... ive had a couple opinions from two very respected mechanics so i defo know its the tappets. one gentleman (mickyjeff) was going to indeed drop the engine and do it on my drive but for the hassle of the specialist tools required.

i might just sell the fooking theing and buy a frigging diesel

Area 52 Autosport

It didn't come across as blunt at all?
I have to say that unless you genuinely have £2k's worth of big end problem (as well as around £500 -£700's worth of likely tappets problem), that spending £2k in this unnecessary area would be "extravagant".

As Rigga (correctly quoted this time), it would be "hellishly expensive".


Mike.

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Lower end rebuild is basicly crank rods pistons bearings checked/renewed where needed

Tappets are located in the cylinder heads so are not covered by a lower end rebuild,you should get the valve clearances checked/reshimmed if needed to cure the tapping,though in my experience of shimmed valves they tend to ge quieter over time as the clearance decreases due to the valve head receading into the seat...

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

argh, i dont know what your talking about. my stoopid head is on tinight, and ive never understood engines

Area 52 Autosport

Haha, despite confusing COB tonight, we've not seen a lot of problems with shimmed tappets at all like this to be honest. Even with high mileage cars? Pistons are also not what we would class as "bottom end" (in that that's not where they are).

Even with hydraulic tappets, we've not seen valve seat recession ever, all the problems we've ever (by way of "problems") seen have been hydraulic tappet blockage related?

We have been re-grinding valve seats today on a 145K mile Impreza Turbo with hydraulic tappets. I'll bet it's not noisy when back running as we've stripped and cleaned the tappet hydraulics as well.

The only time we've needed to re-shim stuff (so far) is after changing to more aggressive cams. And they're a pig as they re-seat and bed in, usually needing several "visits" to get in spec.


Mike

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

so if i came and saw you and the only problem was noisy tappets, what sort of price would i be looking at do you think. im not for one minute inducing that jase is ripping me off as hes a good guy and has done me lots of favours, but maybe ive explained my needs wrong. i dunno.

Area 52 Autosport

Given the circumstances, I'd want to see/hear the car myself first so as not to give you the wrong idea. It's kind of hard to say, as depending on what we measured once we pulled the engine and checked the clearances?

Larger gaps than specified are harder to resolve as we have to buy new shims. Costs will depend on amount of tappets needing correction, and type (over bucket, under bucket or shimless). I'd suggest you could reasonably say you'd be looking in the £500 - £700 bracket as previously suggested?

Of course, if Jason's looked at the car and diagnosed a big end problem, fixing the tappets won't resolve that issue, which is why I said I'd rather see the car in person before passing judgement?


Mike.

Mike

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

jason hasnt diagnosed an actual big end problem. basically hes heard the car and agreed with me its the tappets. not a knocking noise you see. but over the phone he said what i mentioned earlier about rebuilding the bottom end for the sake of droping the engine. or he said its the same as rebuilding the bottom end, as all the rings and other bits and pieces would/should be replaced... im trying not to quote him wrong on this, dont wanna upset the guy incase i repeat something wrong.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

yeah,i know the w mean weight,but winter makes it easier to understand for the less technical folk !

Andy, you dont have much luck with scoobs,buy an evo :-)

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

to be honest, i envisaged a couple problems whan i bought her. with being a high miler, i knew the second engine would be strong but other things like the gearbox etc, would need work. so its an ongoing project, but i cant afford to run two cars so she gets used everyday

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

same here,my scoob is my everyday car,do 700 miles a month in it.

my gearbox has a crunch from 1st to 2nd,used some thicker oil,which made it worse,hence my comments on thicker oil etc as well.

good luck with it all,hope u fix it for not much £££

peace

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

well when i have the resources, i dare say il have a chat with a couple of places, api scoobymania etc and see what their thoughts are in detail. i dont wanna have to trek around the country for different quotes, but i was in all honesty preparing myself for a £2k+ bill just for the engine.

from seeing gearbox rebuild work on zen performance website around the £750-850 mark, thats abonus too.