subaruian

iTrader: (4)

hi im thinking of upgrading my intercooler on my00 would a sti intercooler make much differance? im going to be doing some more engine mods to increase power.

any advice would be great thanks

projectsubaru

If your after more than 300 i would go for a front mount intercooler

midnite_impreza8

iTrader: (16)

The intercooler from a bug-blobeye sti will be the best way to get good power and lower inlet temps but it will not be a straight swap over on your model,if u plan to go front mount make sure its a good one like a hyperflow or somethin for easy fitment and real power

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

The 00 STi intercoolr is the same as yours just painted silver, so don't bother with that one!

Simon

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

You could fit the STI8 IC from the new age cars. Its not a direct fit as some parts foul the IC when fitted. There is a thread in the projects section showing how to do this.

Good for 400hp.

https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...0-classic.html

Zola-the-master

I have fitted a P1/STi to my year 2000 classic and it is slightly bigger but to be honest i haven't noticed any differance in power/acceleration etc.

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

I think the IC is only slightly bigger than the standard version if yours is a UK car. I doubt it would make any difference without other mods.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

On an STi3 Wagon with 335 bhp it is only necessary to accelerate hard to 120mph for the charge temp before the throttlebody to reach 60C and on a warm day it is even more.

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

thanks for you help guys ile take it on board

Andy.F

I still use an OE Sti7 intercooler for approx 470bhp on my spec C. I've seen cars lose bhp by changing from this particular TMIC to one of the cheap FMIC's.

For your car I'd recommend the sti7/8/9 TMIC. The UK's fastest accelerating, standard internals 2.0 classic Impreza's all use this intercooler.

The only classic I'd recommend a FMIC on would be the pre 97 as there is less room to fit the bigger TMIC

Andy

scoobboy

iTrader: (3)

What about the Hyperflow or APS top mounts Andy, would they not be better than most front mounts and STI 7/8/9, obviously not needed for this guys car though?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I should add that the figures I refer to above are on an STi3 with an STi 8 scoop which greatly increases air flow.
The Classic top mount intercoolers up to STi 6 are not capable of disipating the heat produced somewhere around 300 bhp onwards.
A bigger STi 8 type top mount will improve the situation but remember what is acceptable for a quarter mile run has little bearing on a fast road car driven fairly hard for periods at a time.
For less than £50 you can obtain a charge temperature guage and monitor air charge temperatures at the throttle body. You will probably be shocked because it is not difficult to get the guage off the clock at 69.9C.

Andy.F

My own Spec C running at 470 bhp on a Sti TMIC is not a 1/4 mile car, its a fast road car that I do around 1500 miles per month in.
There's much more than charge temp to a good intercooler set up, the effect of increased exhaust backpressure for example can have a massive effect on engine loading for a given power output. This is influenced by the efficiency of the charge air route.

The quality FMIC set ups such as the Hyperflow, APS, Lateral and Perrin pay particular attention to smooth bends and optimise pipework diameters to minimise flow disruption due to velocity changes. One look at the cheapo Autobahn/hybrid pipework and you can see they are simply mass produced with the emphasis on cost and no real priority on efficient design.

The cheap intercooler cores themselves are not too bad (if you use the later tube/fin type) but the end tank design is also not conducive to maximising flow.

Andy

Andy.F

I don't have enough data on those particular TMIC units to comment I'm afraid. My findings on the lower quality FMIC's v the STi >7 TMIC is based on a summary of over a hundred examples.

Andy

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

ive also got a sti8 scoop in paint to go im im looking for around 300bhp so a sti7/8/9 tmic will be ok then? thanks

Andy.F

It will be ideal. You would only add lag and lift off air control issues by going FMIC at this stage.

https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...0-classic.html

I just read the 'how-to' link above, good write up

Andy

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

If Andy is running 470hp then the IC is easily capable of 300hp. It may be seen as overkill when an OE STI6 IC can cope, but it will cope with future mods/improvements.

I run the following (mapped by AndyF to 1.25 to 1.3 bar)

STI8 IC - With custom tray to maximise air to the whole IC.
Zerosports IHI Turbo (VF29 ish) with ported entry
3" Zerosports catted downpipe
2.5" System
440cc Inj
PowerFC
AVCR
APS CAK
Ported OE Headers
2" Slip jointed up pipe.


I remember Andy saying there was no det even though the turbo was maxed at the top end. This was on a very hot summers day too.

I cant comment on the charge temps as I dont have anything to monitor this, but I would imagine that on the move, the temps are kept in order for my power level requirements.

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

what other mods would i need to acheive 300? ive got a
blitz dsbc
tornado downpipe with magnex centre/backbox
pipercross panel filter

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

I dont know what you have already but..


440cc Inj (I'm not sure if 380's are ok)
TD05 Turbo (You probably still have td04) Also see Andy about a TD04 Hybrid and remap.
255lt Walbro pump
The IC as above
A remap of you existing ecu

As far I know all the other OE stuff/mods in place should allow the power you need.

You can then go further and start changing other stuff.

Speak to Harvey about some ported headers and his up-pipe.

Andy.F

Take your pick from VF23/24/28/29/34/35 or TD04H/TD05-16G turbos, uprated fuel pump and an Ecutek remap. Your existing 440 injectors will be fine.
Turbo's stacked in order of full boost response from approx 2500rpm to 3300rpm
04h
35
24
28/29
16g
34
23

This order is also pretty close to the order of increasing power capability in the range of 310-350bhp

Andy

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

what price am i looking at for a tdo4h with ecu remap and fuelpump?
thanks

MaDaSS

Get the TD04H imho. I went mental with my money and as i have said before, paid the price in more ways than one!
My VF34 and the ceramic headers i have not only cost me big in money, but imho the loss of spool up response and the lagg thereof (not sure which way around this should be, lol) is not worth it for the extra power i now have.
Yes i may have circa 330 bhp, but at what cost? I f**ked up, pure and simple.
You only need the TD04H, ported headers, and with a good remap will see over 300 bhp anyway with awesome turbo response and it will pull like a train too.
My car may pull hard as buggery, but that aint no good when it does not start till later up the revs. For a quick road car you need a fast spooling at low revs turbo response giving you monster mid range power/torque and you will be smiling all day long! LOL.
Ahh, if only i had that, sob, sob. My little lag meister is no match.

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

thanks that looks like the way to go what cost ie buying getting parts fitted and remap gonna set me back?

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

ive just seen a tmic on ebay its a wrx 2002 i know it will need modding to fit but is it a version 7/8/9? sorry to sound silly dont know much about this sort of thing yet

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

My My99 was mapped to 319bhp on a day with 30+ degree ambient temps last year on the std MY99 intercooler. I was surprised there was no det.

However, I got thinking that maybe the type of driving required for mapping i.e. fairly short runs on boost in 4th interspersed with sustained cruising speeds is optimal for the TMIC design. i.e. it's fine for dissipating heat in short bursts. How representative is this of everyday driving though when you might, say, be attacking a B road in third and using sustained high levels of boost?

I'm sure a STi 8 TMIC would be ok for my car/use, but the hybrid will eliminate the problem of heatsoak, render high speed cruising safer and mean that I can "floor it and forget it" so to speak. It's proven to beyond 500bhp IIRC and won't cost me that much more than getting a Sti8 TMIC installed....which would seem like a bit of a halfway house.

Ns04

Andy.F

The type 25 retains the original Sti TMIC with 415bhp. Its not exactly a budget build.
The type 25 road car has been thoroughly tested on track, A roads, B roads, motorways and autobahns. It still comes with a warranty. Hardly a halfway house.



I'm sure that if throwing on a £200 fmic improved things then they would have done so.

Andy

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Then there is the question of the extra lag introduced by a FMIC. I'm running just shy of 400bhp (using an MD321H) on a TMIC and the car drives like a dream. I had a FMIC cooler fitted prior to that and although the spool up point was no lower, the throttle response on in-gear changes even on full boost was very poor. Like having an elastic band fitted to the loud pedal. So much less laggy now the TMIC is back on - no more half-second pauses waiting for the car to pick up after planting the throttle

Andy.F

Good set up Andrew Its that driveability thats difficult to explain to someone who has not done the change from one set up to another.

Andy

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Oi! 201.99 I'll have you know!! Typical bloody tight Scotsman!!

I'm going for Harveys one, which is 'reassuringly' more expensive

TBFI meant a halfway house on my car, not the T25, which is hardly a std Subaru engine Certainly tougher than my MY99 one would hope!

harvey

iTrader: (48)

STi 3 Top Mount with Charge Air Temperature sender.


With the OE scoop charge temperatures were even more extreme. I tried an STi 7 scoop which was only a slight improvement. The STi 8 scoop has made a big difference but it is not the answer as temperatures can still exceed 70 deg.C.


Ambient 15-16 deg.C


Sprint to 100 mph and temperature rising quickly passed 61 deg.C.


Temperature rocketing past 64.4 deg.C


Temperature off the clock beyond 69.9 deg.C

Like I said, you cannot compare the performance of a Classic TMIC with that of the far superior STi 8. No Classic TMIC and that includes the STi 6, is capable of satisfactorily controlling temperatures beyond 300 bhp.
An STi 8 TMIC will go a long way to getting temperatures under control or you can go to the expense of a Hyperflow.
However, neither of these two solutions will control temperatures as well as a Hybrid FMIC on a Classic where typical temperatures in the cruise are 2 C. over ambient. They Hybrid is a cost effective budget solution that will have saved many engines to date and will save many more in the future.
Mike Rainbird R&B Motorsport.co.uk | Suppliers of everything you need for your trackday or fast road Ford RS vehicle. does a charge temperature guage for change out of £50 posted and you can monitor your own charge temperatures if you doubt the information presented here. You will know when it is time to lift off and that will become more important with increasing Summer temperatures. I guess this has preserved several engines already.
Many of you will have read an article in Japanese Performance on Top Mounts and from memory the conclusion was that unless you were prepared to spend money on something like a Hyperflow, then swapping the Top Mount would not necessarily show any benefit whatsoever.