martin800

hi there. i have a my99 uk impreza with a td04 turbo . i am thinking of taking my car to Bob Rawle for a remap, but was wondering if a turbo change before i do would be benificial. which turbos would be a direct replacment with no expensive mods. been offered a VF30 for 350 quid but unsure of compatability. also heard that the VF35 was a good choice but i am unable to find one for sale locally. anyone have any experience of doing a swap and which would be best to use.
thankyou

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

a turbo change would be very beneficial mate. Vf30 is ok but thats quite a lot i think, you can get a VF28 for cheaper and that is a good turbo for a first upgrade (good enough for the P1) or a TD05 off an early Sti (you will need to make sure it's converted to front entry though)
Put an ad in the wanted section of this forum and you will find something suitable i'm sure? You could even ask Bob, he may know of something available.

Don't forget though you will need to add some accompanying mods to get the best out if and the remap, you will need a

Full decat exhaust,
uprated fuel pump (walbro)
better spark plugs (NGK PFR7B's)
a 3 port boost solenoid would be an advantage but not critical
and a decent pannel filter (K&N/Sti for instance)

This should see you comfortably over 300 with a VF28 of similar and will put a huge grin on your face

martin800

thankyou for advice. i have a unequal length manifold fitted with decat downpipe, standard center (bloody MOT'S) and a racebox rear. also have an sti panel filter and irridium plugs.will try a VF28, would like to crack 300! i have an apexi avc-r fitted too, but will this need to be removed for a remap.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Ahem,

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...xperience.html

Speak to David at APi

Tell him you want an Ns04 upgrade!

That's right, henceforth I'm insisting the stage two upgrade is named after moi!! It's name hijack!!!!

Ns04

martin800

hi. it was your post that inspired me to mod my car and speak to bob. will do all fitting myself, just need remap. 330 bhp must be so coooool.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Well, 320bhp, but whats 10bhp between friends!

Yep, it certainly shifts!!!

Ns04

BTW David is still a good person to speak to regarding supplying the parts even if you're doing the fitting yourself.

DannyBoy007

iTrader: (7)

I've got a smilar set up on my My99 to New scooby 04

On mine I have:

3" mangex down pipe.
5Zigen 3" centre and back box
K&N induction kits
Hybrid FMIC
VF28

You won't need to change the injectors (You already have 440's) and the standard fuel pump should be okay(Mine is fine and another one of the local lads is running 340 ish on a standard fuel pump)

Managed to get the VF28 off ebay for £125!!!!!!


David @ API fitted the turbo and arranged the remap.

Managed to get 317BHP on powerstation rollers which is pretty good knowing there rollers.

The engine should be fine at these levels of tune but the gearbox becomes the weak link, Some will take the increase some won't, it's kind of luck of the draw, mine didn't last three weeks!!!! third decided to blow itself apart.

You might want to also think about the clutch. Mine started slipping before the the power hike so had david fit an upgraded exedy at the same time along with a lightened flywheel.

With regards to performance, Mine is dead level with a 320BHP type R, there isn't anything in it, We've done a few test's and we are only talking inches in it from 10-140Mph (private test track), you'll find the Uk's longer gearing better than the short ratio's on the type r's.

martin800

thanks for the info dannyboy. i thought that a walbro was a must have when looking to push 300bhp! anyone else running standard pumps?

MartynJ

I would think more about where you want power as apposed to how much you want...Using the TD04 to attain 300bhp can make for a very exciting road car lower down the rev range thanks to massive low down torque...The vf34 which can be picked up quite cheap new from a couple of UK turbo dealers is a nice upgrade when aiming for 350bhp but at the sacrifice of the initial punch of the TD04..The third option of course is to get Turbo Dynamics or Andy F to hybrid your TD04...This will make it stronger and will increase flow by around 20-30hp to 320ish...
If you wish to pm me I have dyno graphs for a 300bhp td04 and the results of putting a vf34 on the same car....

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I think you'll find that most tuners recommend upgrading the fuel pump mate, especially on the older cars; better safe than sorry when it comes to fueling!

NS04

martin800

hi martynj. tried to pm you but you are full up.

MaDaSS

Am very interested in seeing these RR results please.

MartynJ

Ok...now pm away....Sorry....lol...

MartynJ

For anyone else asking themself the same question....!

P1 FEK

iTrader: (1)

Hi Martyn, where are best places to try for a VF34 in the UK?

MartynJ

AET turbo's...
Turbo Dynamics or Universal Turbo's
I think the average retail cost is about £795 , but have a go and you may find someone doing a special....

DannyBoy007

iTrader: (7)

I know what your saying, it's only an half hour job to install and only cost £80 to buy but the standard fuel pump is good for 320-340BHP.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

When new, maybe yes (although Prodrive upgrade the fuel pump for the STi PPP), but lots of people, including me, have been asking these power levels off a st pump that's 6 years plus old.

Ns04

moto

Very interesting Martyn. Thanks for posting these graphs. I didn't realise just how much later the VF34 comes to life!

Scoobyfirsttime

It looks to me as though changing the TD04 means that while you have ultimately much more power, because it delivers so late on in the rev range it means the car is less effective as a daily driver. Is that about the level of it?

Darren

MartynJ

Got it in a nutshell there...The owner of the car shown and I have discussed this at length...The only reason we changed the turbo was his desire to do a small amount of local drag racing..This of course removes the need of quite so much low down and the shift in power band was the correct route to take..We sacrificed 80hp at 3500 to gain 80hp at 6500 , great for the track etc but on the road I prefer the smaller is best route...70-90 in 5th was phenominal on the TD04...

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Not necessarily, look at the following graph for my VF35 conversion, mapped by Bob

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...4/cc60eb74.jpg

Even at the lowest rpm point in the graphs (where you'd expect the bigger turbo to really have its pants pulled down), mine appears to be developing more torque and bhp than the TD04 graph (unless I'm reading it wrong) Usual provisos about comparing RR results from different sources etc... My graph was obtained from a Delta dash run during mapping (not known to be very optimistic- see Andy Fs project WRX in Scoobymag, for example).

For info these figures were obtained on a day with 30 degrees ambient temp, so not ideal!!

My car is improved in EVERY respect over the Td04 including drivability, which I was not expecting!

Ns04

moto

I was beginning to doubt my choice of a TD04 Hybrid turbo with all the talk of VF34/35s. Not any more!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No need to regret it if you're happy mate!!

I think the consequences of moving to a larger turbo are being somewhat over-stated though! (compare my graph to the TD04 one)

Ns04

Scoobyfirsttime

How does it feel to drive Ns04 - do you notice an increase in lag ? Are you using a FMIC with that ?

Darren

Bob Rawle

Guys you won't get 300 bhp from a TD04 ... just not possible, the VF30 is similar to the VF34, just the sleeve bearing version and thats no problem as spool can easily be dealt with by judicious use of map settings and adjusting boost control pipework to suit.

So if you have the chance at that price go for it.

All this talk of lag is nonsense, obviously a bigger turbo means later spool but mapping can compensate, these engines don't do anything below 3500 rpm in any case.

Rolling road graphs are just graphs btw, real time data exposes the reality.

cheers

bob

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Well, there it is from the man himself; kinda makes what I had to say redundant!

For anyone interested in subjective impressions of the car, see the following thread:

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...xperience.html

Ns04

MartynJ

Bob although I respect your vast experience as a mapper it was myself who attained these figures from the car described..I would also like to state that it wasn't a one off and I have since carried out the same conversion on other vehicles...I would also like to say that the customer who owns this vehicle is a regular on Southwestscoobies.org.uk and can be contacted should you wish to verify the loss in driveability that he has noted since going to the larger turbo...

NS04 in answer to your points raised , the figures you have can in no way be compared to those seen on our DD rolling road and you haven't quite checked correctly....The TD04 has 270lbft of torque at just 3000rpm , even on your delta dash power graph you are 70lbft short at this point and I suspect that on the rollers it would be even more than that.......Oh and you never actually make the 320lbft that it peaks at....

I never posted my findings to be drawn into an argument , just to show that out and out power isn't the be all and end all...It's about where the performance is when it comes to road cars..I have always found that you should fit the smallest turbo reqd to reach your power goals...What is the point of fitting a 350hp turbo if you are only aiming for 300hp..

I was recently asked to supply a turbo for use in a rally car in Ireland and had exactly the same conversation with both the owner and Matt Clark ...We all agreed (which has since been confirmed by the owner of the car in his huge thankyou phonecall) that response is where it's at...I sold him the same TD04 hybrid from Turbo Dynamics and he says that his antilag has become unrequired....You can all of course take or leave my advice...

MaDaSS

Bob, thanks! LOL.
I am glad to read that too!
My VF34 starts at just around that figure of 3500 and then pulls like a f00ka after that.
And although a week or more has passed since i had all this done, i am now getting used to it, and although i expected more from a higher gear when the loud pedal is floored, i only have to change down and it just bloody trams now.
Not even a minor problem now i am getting used to it.
I am having my BF's fitted at RCMS soon so will be able to tell 'real time' what is happening then and will post more after that

MartynJ

I think I will rest my case right about there...
I have not said that putting a larger turbo on makes it so laggy it is undriveable , just that there is nearly always another option...Consider them all on their merits and make up your own minds...