FAO: Harvey Re: Sigma/Link/Apexi observations
21 October 2006, 08:53 AM
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FAO: Harvey Re: Sigma/Link/Apexi observations
With all other threads i've only seen this morning debating the above ecu's, can you give a comparison on how the car felt on the road with the different ecu's?
21 October 2006, 12:09 PM
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Alan,
Unfortunately, the Sigma is only available from '92-'98, and won't work on your '99-00 car.
Mark.
Unfortunately, the Sigma is only available from '92-'98, and won't work on your '99-00 car.
Mark.
21 October 2006, 05:21 PM
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Hi Mark
Yes, i realise that after reading through the "other" thread, but am interested in the differences in how the car behaves on the road between those mentioned above.
{If you're referring to a comment i made on another BB i was only kidding}
BTW can you mail me re: conversation at the Pod. I lost all address's when i got the new PC.
Ta.
Yes, i realise that after reading through the "other" thread, but am interested in the differences in how the car behaves on the road between those mentioned above.
{If you're referring to a comment i made on another BB i was only kidding}
BTW can you mail me re: conversation at the Pod. I lost all address's when i got the new PC.
Ta.
21 October 2006, 06:18 PM
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Alan,
Yes I saw the other thread, and knowing what a fussy barsteward you are, didn't know if you were thinking of "divorcing" another ecu
Even with your current idle glitch, based on what you were telling me about maxing out your current injectors
, I was surprised when I though you were looking at changing the Power FC.
Anyway, speak soon.
Mark.
Yes I saw the other thread, and knowing what a fussy barsteward you are, didn't know if you were thinking of "divorcing" another ecu
Even with your current idle glitch, based on what you were telling me about maxing out your current injectors
, I was surprised when I though you were looking at changing the Power FC.Anyway, speak soon.
Mark.
21 October 2006, 06:51 PM
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LOL. I am a fussy barsteward ain't I? 
Apart from the idle glitch problem, i'm still pleased with the Apexi for road use, what with the closed loop facility allowing me to pass an MOT {legitimately} 
and obtain a 900rpm idle (when it feels like it at the moment....) despite the cams that are in there.
I saw for the first time at the Pod though, the facilities an M800 can give.... mmmm... nice!
For my situation for the moment, the Apexi ticks all the right boxes just now with what i've mentioned above plus not having to travel to far to get it mapped.
One thing i need to think of though, is that the car is now edging away from road "useability" to more track/ 1/4mile orientation. Doesn't help seeing all those fast cars in one place tearing up the strip! Makes you want to push further!
Apart from the idle glitch problem, i'm still pleased with the Apexi for road use, what with the closed loop facility allowing me to pass an MOT
{legitimately} and obtain a 900rpm idle (when it feels like it at the moment....) despite the cams that are in there.I saw for the first time at the Pod though, the facilities an M800 can give.... mmmm... nice!
For my situation for the moment, the Apexi ticks all the right boxes just now with what i've mentioned above plus not having to travel to far to get it mapped.
One thing i need to think of though, is that the car is now edging away from road "useability" to more track/ 1/4mile orientation. Doesn't help seeing all those fast cars in one place tearing up the strip! Makes you want to push further!
22 October 2006, 09:19 AM
#6
Hi Alan : I have experience of the following on a 95WRX Wagon.
These are MY honest and carefully assessed opinions that I have been asked for. If you do not agree, tough, but they are my conclusions so no bun fights.
Superchip : Fitted properly by George Smith while at Falkland. Used a bleed valve. Noticable power increase. Better economy if the extra performance was not used. Not a big power increase and rather expensive for the gains achieved. O/E car starting, drivability etc.
Six Row Link. Big step forward. Installed and mapped initially by Bob Rawle. Big power increase. No MAF. Very user friendly mapping soft ware. I was continually altering the map on this car to get the absolute best out of it.
With six rows the resolution was not very good. It was a bit crude.
The map needed little changes (that could be done on the hand held management unit) to go from hot day to cold day or winter to summer.
You could get the car spot on in the exact centre of a zone, only to find it a bit out at the top or bottom of the zone. I wanted more refinement ie more than six rows with big steps.
The car ticked over a bit rich 12:1. It was not as nice to tootle around town in as it did not have the refinement of the MAF equiped O/E car (or with Superchip) but it produced good power and boost came in quite viciously.
The car with every day map produced 385 bhp regularly, although at a Dastek RR day it produced something over 400 bhp with my own fuel brew.
I had asked Bob to look out for an ECU for me with more resolution as I wanted a bit more refinement. Nothing turned up but I then swapped the Link for a new Apexi and Commander from a guy in Ireland who could not get the Apexi mapped.
First impression was how much smoother and nicer to drive the car was when tootling about town or manouvering. Just like when it was O/E. I also felt it had lost some of its urgency and did not spool as viscously.
From Andy F. fitting the Apexi I went straight to Dastek. The car was down 14 or 15 bhp on its previous run only a couple of weeks prior.
I then spent three weeks looking for the problem. Compression checks, plugs changed. WG actuator checked etc. etc. etc.
I then went on the rollers at Steve Simpson Motorsport as these are the nearest rollers to me. 14 or 15 bhp down on the previous rolling road day figure. Steve picked up a few bhp to reduce the deficit. Obviously, mapping on the rollers allows you to get the very best out of it in terms of ultimate power. Without finding the graphs I cannot be sure but I think we were still 9 bhp adrift. Other than a minor adjustments, the map was good and Steve commented to that effect.
I noticed the ignition values appeared to be less than with the Link and when we put the timing strobe on we saw the jitter of the timing mark. 2-4 degrees at a guess. I have now seen this on other 93-96 cars.
The car may not have had the raw ultimate power or urgency but it was nice to drive. Fuel economy was marginally worse than with the Link. Tick over was marginally rich but far better than the Link. Starting was per an O/E car and while there had never been starting issues with the Link, starting was quicker with the Apexi. I liked the closed loop lambda up to 4'000 rpm if I remember correctly. I did not think the Apexi software was very good compared to the Link but the hand held commander was very useful for information, eg Knock level, water temp, duty cycle. It also stored maximums.
On 14 July Steve Simpson fitted a Sigma ECU. We then had 392 bhp from memory. Right from the start, impressions were good. Initially Steve had difficulty getting it to tick over at lambda but with a bit of time on it tickover is exactly that. All starting in any coditions is good but marginally longer than with Apexi/O/E. There is no need to sit waiting for the fuel pump as with the Gems. The closed loop follows lambda very well. With the Apexi I was also running an AVC-R but while that is still in the car it is not controlling boost as the Sigma boost control is spot on.
On the road the car had all its sparkle back and ran very well. Tootling about town was good, far better than the Link but perhaps marginally worse than the Apexi.
I then did other work on the car and on the next rolling road visit had 420.7 bhp (my own TD05-06 20G) a little over 6k but ran into a missfire. I had run out of time. The missfire was not identified but when I changed plugs and gapped them down the next week-end, the missfire had gone but the car was not mapped beyond 6,500 rpm.
Fuel economy has improved signifigantly but in part that will be down to V-Power. The car is good to drive in all conditions. The software is user friendly but much more complex than the Link. It desn't matter if it is a hot or cold day and I guess there may be a few more BHP to come.
I also have considerble experience of the 10 Row Link which was installed and mapped repeatedly by Bob Rawle on the STi 6 Wagon, culminating in 585 bhp with race fuel. Tick over on that was always rich. Tootling round town was not as refined as the O/E but again I found the software easy to use.
That car now has a Motec M800. Initial impresions are good but I do not have enough experience with it to comment further.
Gems. Limitted experience and mainly some time ago. Starting was sometimes tempremental and tickover had to be rich. There was a delay waiting for the fuel pump. Tootling about was not very good but the car could certainly go when you put your foot flat on the floor.
Autronic : Limitted experience. Starting and tickover and Tootling about was OK but the car felt flat. Probably required a major remap.
As RB5289 indicated, the Sigma is only available M/Y 93-98 at present but a 99-00 is well in hand.
I hope this gives you the information you wanted. If not please e-mail.
Cheers,
Harvey.
These are MY honest and carefully assessed opinions that I have been asked for. If you do not agree, tough, but they are my conclusions so no bun fights.
Superchip : Fitted properly by George Smith while at Falkland. Used a bleed valve. Noticable power increase. Better economy if the extra performance was not used. Not a big power increase and rather expensive for the gains achieved. O/E car starting, drivability etc.
Six Row Link. Big step forward. Installed and mapped initially by Bob Rawle. Big power increase. No MAF. Very user friendly mapping soft ware. I was continually altering the map on this car to get the absolute best out of it.
With six rows the resolution was not very good. It was a bit crude.
The map needed little changes (that could be done on the hand held management unit) to go from hot day to cold day or winter to summer.
You could get the car spot on in the exact centre of a zone, only to find it a bit out at the top or bottom of the zone. I wanted more refinement ie more than six rows with big steps.
The car ticked over a bit rich 12:1. It was not as nice to tootle around town in as it did not have the refinement of the MAF equiped O/E car (or with Superchip) but it produced good power and boost came in quite viciously.
The car with every day map produced 385 bhp regularly, although at a Dastek RR day it produced something over 400 bhp with my own fuel brew.
I had asked Bob to look out for an ECU for me with more resolution as I wanted a bit more refinement. Nothing turned up but I then swapped the Link for a new Apexi and Commander from a guy in Ireland who could not get the Apexi mapped.
First impression was how much smoother and nicer to drive the car was when tootling about town or manouvering. Just like when it was O/E. I also felt it had lost some of its urgency and did not spool as viscously.
From Andy F. fitting the Apexi I went straight to Dastek. The car was down 14 or 15 bhp on its previous run only a couple of weeks prior.
I then spent three weeks looking for the problem. Compression checks, plugs changed. WG actuator checked etc. etc. etc.
I then went on the rollers at Steve Simpson Motorsport as these are the nearest rollers to me. 14 or 15 bhp down on the previous rolling road day figure. Steve picked up a few bhp to reduce the deficit. Obviously, mapping on the rollers allows you to get the very best out of it in terms of ultimate power. Without finding the graphs I cannot be sure but I think we were still 9 bhp adrift. Other than a minor adjustments, the map was good and Steve commented to that effect.
I noticed the ignition values appeared to be less than with the Link and when we put the timing strobe on we saw the jitter of the timing mark. 2-4 degrees at a guess. I have now seen this on other 93-96 cars.
The car may not have had the raw ultimate power or urgency but it was nice to drive. Fuel economy was marginally worse than with the Link. Tick over was marginally rich but far better than the Link. Starting was per an O/E car and while there had never been starting issues with the Link, starting was quicker with the Apexi. I liked the closed loop lambda up to 4'000 rpm if I remember correctly. I did not think the Apexi software was very good compared to the Link but the hand held commander was very useful for information, eg Knock level, water temp, duty cycle. It also stored maximums.
On 14 July Steve Simpson fitted a Sigma ECU. We then had 392 bhp from memory. Right from the start, impressions were good. Initially Steve had difficulty getting it to tick over at lambda but with a bit of time on it tickover is exactly that. All starting in any coditions is good but marginally longer than with Apexi/O/E. There is no need to sit waiting for the fuel pump as with the Gems. The closed loop follows lambda very well. With the Apexi I was also running an AVC-R but while that is still in the car it is not controlling boost as the Sigma boost control is spot on.
On the road the car had all its sparkle back and ran very well. Tootling about town was good, far better than the Link but perhaps marginally worse than the Apexi.
I then did other work on the car and on the next rolling road visit had 420.7 bhp (my own TD05-06 20G) a little over 6k but ran into a missfire. I had run out of time. The missfire was not identified but when I changed plugs and gapped them down the next week-end, the missfire had gone but the car was not mapped beyond 6,500 rpm.
Fuel economy has improved signifigantly but in part that will be down to V-Power. The car is good to drive in all conditions. The software is user friendly but much more complex than the Link. It desn't matter if it is a hot or cold day and I guess there may be a few more BHP to come.
I also have considerble experience of the 10 Row Link which was installed and mapped repeatedly by Bob Rawle on the STi 6 Wagon, culminating in 585 bhp with race fuel. Tick over on that was always rich. Tootling round town was not as refined as the O/E but again I found the software easy to use.
That car now has a Motec M800. Initial impresions are good but I do not have enough experience with it to comment further.
Gems. Limitted experience and mainly some time ago. Starting was sometimes tempremental and tickover had to be rich. There was a delay waiting for the fuel pump. Tootling about was not very good but the car could certainly go when you put your foot flat on the floor.
Autronic : Limitted experience. Starting and tickover and Tootling about was OK but the car felt flat. Probably required a major remap.
As RB5289 indicated, the Sigma is only available M/Y 93-98 at present but a 99-00 is well in hand.
I hope this gives you the information you wanted. If not please e-mail.
Cheers,
Harvey.
Last edited by harvey; 22 October 2006 at 09:28 AM.
22 October 2006, 11:37 AM
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Hi Harvey
Thanks for the reply.
I ask the question because the other thread only really spoke about results, not how the car drove. Since you own the car and only you know how it behaves i was interested to hear of "real world" experience.
Thanks.
Thanks for the reply.
I ask the question because the other thread only really spoke about results, not how the car drove. Since you own the car and only you know how it behaves i was interested to hear of "real world" experience.
Thanks.
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22 October 2006, 02:08 PM
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Harvey,
I am interested to see you observations about ignition timing jitter. Would I be right in saying:
You were running a TD05-20g
The jitter was on boost (aside from the timing control of idle speed)
No jitter above a certain RPM, say 4500
I am interested to see you observations about ignition timing jitter. Would I be right in saying:
You were running a TD05-20g
The jitter was on boost (aside from the timing control of idle speed)
No jitter above a certain RPM, say 4500
22 October 2006, 06:51 PM
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My mistake, I read your experiences to mean that the Jitter was present under WOT and affected available ignition timing and mapping.
22 October 2006, 09:27 PM
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Harvey
When I mapped your car on the Link ECU it achieved some excellent figures as you mentioned in your post, then Steve Simpson mapped it on the rollers at TEG sport where he also had some good results although you considered it at the time to be a bit 'too sparkly' for everyday use. Shortly afterwards, for no apparent reason it 'lost' circa 10bhp during a group rolling road day at TEG sport, then a few weeks later after fitting and mapping the Apexi it 'lost' a further 10bhp.
I recall you subsequently found that something had gone through the engine and caused some internal damage. Can you be sure of exactly when this event happened ? Is it not likely that this was the reason for the two unexplained step reductions in power or did you find another explanation for this ?
You then fitted a pair of Sti 3 heads and cams but due to being too busy I was unable to map the car to suit this latest spec on the Apexi, it would have been interesting to find out how much improvement the Sti 3 heads and cams made over the std early WRX set up, when tuned with my same safety factor.
The Sigma ECU is obviously benefitting from this Sti set up now.
Andy
When I mapped your car on the Link ECU it achieved some excellent figures as you mentioned in your post, then Steve Simpson mapped it on the rollers at TEG sport where he also had some good results although you considered it at the time to be a bit 'too sparkly' for everyday use. Shortly afterwards, for no apparent reason it 'lost' circa 10bhp during a group rolling road day at TEG sport, then a few weeks later after fitting and mapping the Apexi it 'lost' a further 10bhp.
I recall you subsequently found that something had gone through the engine and caused some internal damage. Can you be sure of exactly when this event happened ? Is it not likely that this was the reason for the two unexplained step reductions in power or did you find another explanation for this ?
You then fitted a pair of Sti 3 heads and cams but due to being too busy I was unable to map the car to suit this latest spec on the Apexi, it would have been interesting to find out how much improvement the Sti 3 heads and cams made over the std early WRX set up, when tuned with my same safety factor.
The Sigma ECU is obviously benefitting from this Sti set up now.
Andy
Last edited by Andy.F; 22 October 2006 at 09:30 PM.
22 October 2006, 09:50 PM
#12
When I mapped your car on the Link ECU it achieved some excellent figures as you mentioned in your post, then Steve Simpson mapped it on the rollers at TEG sport where he also had some good results although you considered it at the time to be a bit 'too sparkly' for everyday use. Shortly afterwards, for no apparent reason it 'lost' circa 10bhp during a group rolling road day at TEG sport, then a few weeks later after fitting and mapping the Apexi it 'lost' a further 10bhp.
Prior to fitting the Apexi I had very recently produced 385 bhp at Dastek and immediately after the Apexi was fitted I went straight to Dastek and was disappointed to be 14 or 15 bhp down on what I previously had.
As I originally stated I then spent time looking for this and the result was reconfirmed at TEG Sport where the figure was either 14 or 15 bhp down on what was expected. It was either 14 down at Dastek and 15 at TEG Sport or vice versa.
Fitting the SIGMA gave 392 bhp and at that time I had not lost any turbine wheels due to FOD.
I then fitted the STi heads and within 15 miles lost one turbine cartridge. I replaced this and then had something else go through a short time afterwards and having used my spare cartridge I obtained the second replacement from yourself. This was after the car was fitted with STi heads and long after the Apexi had come off.
The car then gave 420.7 bhp.
The first item that went through the turbo appeared to be something the shape of a woodruff key.
I never found out what the second item was.
I hope this clarifies the chain of events but perhaps you will recall that I told you I spent three weeks looking for a problem on the engine to explain the reduced power at Dastek which was subsequently confirmed at TEG three weeks later.
P.S. Having checked back I now remeber that the second item that took out the exhaust wheel was the EGT probe tip so I guess I was unlucky and it was expensive.
Last edited by harvey; 22 October 2006 at 10:15 PM.
23 October 2006, 07:43 AM
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Hi Andy : You are exactly correct in your first sentence but at the rolling road day I seem to remember it produced 376 bhp or was it 378 when I expected 385 but for whatever reason all the cars appeared to be a little down on power that day. If I spend time looking for rolling road print outs we will actually get the dates but I think this may have been reported in a past issue of Jap Performance so we will find it anyhow.
Prior to fitting the Apexi I had very recently produced 385 bhp at Dastek and immediately after the Apexi was fitted I went straight to Dastek and was disappointed to be 14 or 15 bhp down on what I previously had.
As I originally stated I then spent time looking for this and the result was reconfirmed at TEG Sport where the figure was either 14 or 15 bhp down on what was expected. It was either 14 down at Dastek and 15 at TEG Sport or vice versa.
Fitting the SIGMA gave 392 bhp and at that time I had not lost any turbine wheels due to FOD.
I then fitted the STi heads and within 15 miles lost one turbine cartridge. I replaced this and then had something else go through a short time afterwards and having used my spare cartridge I obtained the second replacement from yourself. This was after the car was fitted with STi heads and long after the Apexi had come off.
The car then gave 420.7 bhp.
The first item that went through the turbo appeared to be something the shape of a woodruff key.
I never found out what the second item was.
I hope this clarifies the chain of events but perhaps you will recall that I told you I spent three weeks looking for a problem on the engine to explain the reduced power at Dastek which was subsequently confirmed at TEG three weeks later.
P.S. Having checked back I now remeber that the second item that took out the exhaust wheel was the EGT probe tip so I guess I was unlucky and it was expensive.
Prior to fitting the Apexi I had very recently produced 385 bhp at Dastek and immediately after the Apexi was fitted I went straight to Dastek and was disappointed to be 14 or 15 bhp down on what I previously had.
As I originally stated I then spent time looking for this and the result was reconfirmed at TEG Sport where the figure was either 14 or 15 bhp down on what was expected. It was either 14 down at Dastek and 15 at TEG Sport or vice versa.
Fitting the SIGMA gave 392 bhp and at that time I had not lost any turbine wheels due to FOD.
I then fitted the STi heads and within 15 miles lost one turbine cartridge. I replaced this and then had something else go through a short time afterwards and having used my spare cartridge I obtained the second replacement from yourself. This was after the car was fitted with STi heads and long after the Apexi had come off.
The car then gave 420.7 bhp.
The first item that went through the turbo appeared to be something the shape of a woodruff key.
I never found out what the second item was.
I hope this clarifies the chain of events but perhaps you will recall that I told you I spent three weeks looking for a problem on the engine to explain the reduced power at Dastek which was subsequently confirmed at TEG three weeks later.
P.S. Having checked back I now remeber that the second item that took out the exhaust wheel was the EGT probe tip so I guess I was unlucky and it was expensive.
Link - Standard WRX engine - 385
Apexi - Standard WRX engine - 371
Sigma - Standard WRX engine - 392
Sigma - Standard WRX Short block? STI3 Heads and cams - 420
Is that summary correct?
edited to add, Would you happen to know what rpms theses figures were at, and what torque figures were produced at what rpm?
I know someone that is comtemplating whacking a set of sti3 heads on a wrx short block, so quite interested.
Last edited by P20SPD; 23 October 2006 at 07:59 AM.
24 October 2006, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey
No Paul : The jitter is evident on 93-96 cars, run off boost, no load 3000-5000 rpm.
Simon
24 October 2006, 07:24 PM
#16
I fail to see how the jitter will disappear with the application of boost.
The Apexi was unable to run as much advance as either the Link or Sigma. Fact.
You are always jumping to conclusions. Please stick to the facts.
I DID NOT say this.
The Apexi was unable to run as much advance as either the Link or Sigma. Fact.
therefore it would have no effect on overall power output as the timing jitter was not evident on WOT..
I DID NOT say this.
Last edited by harvey; 25 October 2006 at 08:51 AM.
24 October 2006, 11:10 PM
#18
Simon : You were given the opportunity to bring a car along with an Apexi fitted, alter the map in any way you wanted, on the rollers, have the above demonstrated to you and then observe the Sigma in the same way.
You refused the offer. I am unable to assist you further.
You refused the offer. I am unable to assist you further.
25 October 2006, 01:39 PM
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Apart from the idle glitch problem, i'm still pleased with the Apexi for road use, what with the closed loop facility allowing me to pass an MOT {legitimately} and obtain a 900rpm idle (when it feels like it at the moment....) despite the cams that are in there.
[QUOTE]
ALANG, what cams do you run and injectors/exhaust setup for passing MOT? I have 285 pipers with single sports cat and me' motor runs sooty at low revs - all because of the overlap of the cams...not sure she'll pass a test...
{legitimately} and obtain a 900rpm idle (when it feels like it at the moment....) despite the cams that are in there.[QUOTE]
ALANG, what cams do you run and injectors/exhaust setup for passing MOT? I have 285 pipers with single sports cat and me' motor runs sooty at low revs - all because of the overlap of the cams...not sure she'll pass a test...
Last edited by swisstonihasher; 25 October 2006 at 01:53 PM.
25 October 2006, 09:06 PM
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Cams are from RCM. Spec of engine is 272 degrees/800cc/3"
Without a cat i can only pass two out of the 3 criteria. With a single APS hi-flow cat in system i can pass all 3.
Without a cat i can only pass two out of the 3 criteria. With a single APS hi-flow cat in system i can pass all 3.
26 October 2006, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by P20SPD
Sorry to go over this, just trying to summarise in list form, as i have read it several times, but still a little confused
Link - Standard WRX engine - 385
Apexi - Standard WRX engine - 371
Sigma - Standard WRX engine - 392
Sigma - Standard WRX Short block? STI3 Heads and cams - 420
Is that summary correct?
edited to add, Would you happen to know what rpms theses figures were at, and what torque figures were produced at what rpm?
I know someone that is comtemplating whacking a set of sti3 heads on a wrx short block, so quite interested.
Link - Standard WRX engine - 385
Apexi - Standard WRX engine - 371
Sigma - Standard WRX engine - 392
Sigma - Standard WRX Short block? STI3 Heads and cams - 420
Is that summary correct?
edited to add, Would you happen to know what rpms theses figures were at, and what torque figures were produced at what rpm?
I know someone that is comtemplating whacking a set of sti3 heads on a wrx short block, so quite interested.
The owner just wants to run plain fuel, ie no additives.
26 October 2006, 11:39 AM
#23
Good point Steven.
The WRX engine was hardly standard but within the confines of what you intend, the power figures are from memory correct.
I will still have the actual graphs but finding them all may take sometime.
In all cases, Optimax plus 2ml/litre NF.
My own 05-06 20G in all cases.
The next run will obviously be with v-Power plus 2mls/litre.
The WRX engine was hardly standard but within the confines of what you intend, the power figures are from memory correct.
I will still have the actual graphs but finding them all may take sometime.
In all cases, Optimax plus 2ml/litre NF.
My own 05-06 20G in all cases.
The next run will obviously be with v-Power plus 2mls/litre.
26 October 2006, 12:23 PM
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Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
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Regards Optimax and the (in my opinion) far superior Vpower, can anyone be sure when it actually changed over ?
Months ago I posted about some cars just starting to perform better for no apparent reason long before V Power was officially released.
There were others at that time that underperformed, looking back now, they were probably running on the last of the dated Optimax as they emptied the refinery of the dregs.
It would have been different in every area, even the stations selling the stuff had no idea when it came in !
Andy
Months ago I posted about some cars just starting to perform better for no apparent reason long before V Power was officially released.
There were others at that time that underperformed, looking back now, they were probably running on the last of the dated Optimax as they emptied the refinery of the dregs.
It would have been different in every area, even the stations selling the stuff had no idea when it came in !
Andy
27 October 2006, 06:08 PM
#25
Ecu Specialist
Andy in Swindon I put my first tank of V Power in the car on the Tuesday prior to SSO, when it appeared in the rest of the country is variable I guess though. Like you I noted cars starting to do much better, then one would be as before, gradually more just plain did better as the fuel became more wide spread, all this priorto its official launch.
bob
Bob
bob
Bob
27 October 2006, 07:03 PM
#26
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So that was as far back as May Bob. Considering the scale of the operation and the variation in storage capacity at outlets, I guess it could have taken circa 3-4 months to ensure everywhere was properly flushed through, before officially announcing the change.
Andy
Andy
27 October 2006, 07:16 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
I cannot comment on the change over point as all the way down here we have only just started getting our hands on V Power...I have seen that even on the same map a couple of my customers cars are 5-10hp up without any other changes...When I get one in for more fettling I will of course try adding a small amount of ignition and see where we go...
I would also like to add that posts like this are very imformative and that there should be more like them..To have three of the Scoobyworlds most respected people on the same thread can only be good for the rest of the Subaru community.......
I would also like to add that posts like this are very imformative and that there should be more like them..To have three of the Scoobyworlds most respected people on the same thread can only be good for the rest of the Subaru community.......
27 October 2006, 09:22 PM
#28
Ecu Specialist
Andy I think thats right, with the wide ranging locations Shell have and the relatively slow movement of Optimax in some areas it must have taken that. Fuel quality makes such a huge difference to the overall package performance. Its not all about the figures.
bob
bob
27 October 2006, 09:35 PM
#29
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I think V-power goes off quicker than Optimax did, on the motorway on monday and part throttle pick up seemed quite flat, put it down to car still needed a few tweeks on the map, and a bit of a play a couple of days later on the same tank of fuel and it was detting which it hadn't done when that fuel went in, that fuel had been in the tank for over a week, put fresh in on thursday and same conditions and no mapping been done and part throttle was crisper and no det when having a play.
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