Manifold spacers for front entry?
08 September 2006, 02:26 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: kent
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manifold spacers for front entry?
Was looking into lifting inlet manifold on spacers to insulate and enable front entry turbo conversion on early classic? was wondering if there are any benefits to the front entry conversion and if the reduction in inlet tempereture when using maybe nylon or phenolic spacers is significant enough to provide any gains/benefits? Also where could i get some insulating spacers(20 mm would be enough to enable the f/e conversion as far as i'm aware?) and what front entry turbo would be most suitable for the car? current state:-
uk classic my96 320 bhp 300 lbs/ft
440 phase 2 injectors
my 99 top mount intercooler
blitz dd dump valve
full stainles blitz nur spec r exhaust
stainless down pipe
stainless equal length manfold
blitz dbsci boost controller set @1.35 bar
remapped for supporting mods/boost by pat h.
uk classic my96 320 bhp 300 lbs/ft
440 phase 2 injectors
my 99 top mount intercooler
blitz dd dump valve
full stainles blitz nur spec r exhaust
stainless down pipe
stainless equal length manfold
blitz dbsci boost controller set @1.35 bar
remapped for supporting mods/boost by pat h.
08 September 2006, 03:59 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Kingston ( Surrey, not Jamaica )
Posts: 4,670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09 September 2006, 10:23 AM
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: kent
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the link mate, does carl do these any thicker than 10mm as tht wont be enough to enable the f/e turbo conversion? any ideas on turbos?
09 September 2006, 10:31 AM
#5
I have fitted 10mm manifold spacers made from Tufnol on several cars, version 1 and fitted either VF or TD05 FE or TD05-06 20G.
Because you need to make a new inlet tract and silicone hose is the easiest option, you should have no problem.
Carl Davey is your man. Also available from RCMS. Do not be tempted to use Aluminium which I have seen on other cars as the purpose of the spacer is to reduce heat transfer and Aluminium is a good conductor.
Because you need to make a new inlet tract and silicone hose is the easiest option, you should have no problem.
Carl Davey is your man. Also available from RCMS. Do not be tempted to use Aluminium which I have seen on other cars as the purpose of the spacer is to reduce heat transfer and Aluminium is a good conductor.
09 September 2006, 10:16 PM
#7
It takes longer to warm up. It does not get as hot and on a run it is noticably cooler.
Good tip. Isolate the header tank which will further reduce inlet manifold temperatures on cylinders 1+3. as does wrapping the exhaust housing of the turbo.
Good tip. Isolate the header tank which will further reduce inlet manifold temperatures on cylinders 1+3. as does wrapping the exhaust housing of the turbo.
Trending Topics
11 September 2006, 03:50 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: kent
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the help,which vf series would be worth changing to?think i've got a vf 24 in the garage?got no markings on it apart from ihi ofcourse though,it came from a my97 import running 440 s? would it be worth runnning that with my set up? I'll get in touch with carl if 10 mm will definately give me enough room to run front entry? any snet discount carl?
13 September 2006, 09:02 PM
#10
Originally Posted by harvey
I have fitted 10mm manifold spacers made from Tufnol on several cars, version 1 and fitted either VF or TD05 FE or TD05-06 20G.
Because you need to make a new inlet tract and silicone hose is the easiest option, you should have no problem.
Because you need to make a new inlet tract and silicone hose is the easiest option, you should have no problem.
Have you any info to share on best inlet re-design for early classic ( 90 degree entry turbo originally ) fitting FE TD05-20G ? I also have Carl's excellant manifold insulating spacers ( and comes with water header tank spacers too! ). But at 10 mm too little extra height for FE inlet pipe and also need to move? power steering pump assay???
Currently got my OEM concertina pipe into the 90 degree samco from turbo front entry, but not satisfactory. I have several silicone hoses and metal pipes to replace OEM but sits too high so bonnet hits them!
Is it just a matter of cutting down the leg length on the metal and silicone pipes to gain clearance??
I have the MRT resonator replacement metal pipe, and a cone filter after the MAF.
Thanks
Neil
15 September 2006, 05:53 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: kent
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be great if someone could share this information, clarify if 10mm is enough and what the best solution is to convert early classic to f/e turbo? any help/knowledge or experience greatly appreciated on this one. Thanks.
15 September 2006, 08:41 PM
#12
Sparky
I have had a chat with Harvey and have a few ideas ... if they work we will post on here!
To fit a front entry inlet pipe the manifold needs to be lifted around 20 - 25 mm, easiest with engine out / manifold removed! BUT on early cars the power steering pump/hoses get in the way at the front, so the reservoir/pipes need moving and mounting remotely. So not that easy ...
A silicone hose, 90 degree ish that fits the turbo inlet ( around 63 mm id on a TD05-20G turbo front cover ) and cut short on the turbo side will just fit between turbo and manifold, and then with right length hoses to bend 90 degree and meet up with resonator replacement pipes and MAF and air filter using OEM or other parts, then it should be OK and actually not show much BHP drop ( 10 bhp or less ) compared to a FE inlet pipe.
This set up has been to see around 400 bhp with 20G turbo and other appropriate mods.
I am trying the 90 degree with silicone hoses / ally pipes, just need to sort lengths to clear bonnet as my 90 degree from TD05-20G aims away from o/s wing so any pipe fitted aims upwards a bit!
I have had a chat with Harvey and have a few ideas ... if they work we will post on here!
To fit a front entry inlet pipe the manifold needs to be lifted around 20 - 25 mm, easiest with engine out / manifold removed! BUT on early cars the power steering pump/hoses get in the way at the front, so the reservoir/pipes need moving and mounting remotely. So not that easy ...
A silicone hose, 90 degree ish that fits the turbo inlet ( around 63 mm id on a TD05-20G turbo front cover ) and cut short on the turbo side will just fit between turbo and manifold, and then with right length hoses to bend 90 degree and meet up with resonator replacement pipes and MAF and air filter using OEM or other parts, then it should be OK and actually not show much BHP drop ( 10 bhp or less ) compared to a FE inlet pipe.
This set up has been to see around 400 bhp with 20G turbo and other appropriate mods.
I am trying the 90 degree with silicone hoses / ally pipes, just need to sort lengths to clear bonnet as my 90 degree from TD05-20G aims away from o/s wing so any pipe fitted aims upwards a bit!
16 September 2006, 11:28 AM
#13
Sparky: Your car has a VF23 or 24. Both capable of 330 plus bhp but not as rugged as a TD05.
Neil: Any of the photos or information you have can be put on here if you think it is worthwhile. ( And know how to post photographs
)
The inlet tract under the phase 1+2 is a pain. 10mm is enough if you use silicon piping instead of a Samco/MRT/Perrin inlet tracts and the easiest inlet tract other than Silicon piping is the Pro-drive Rally inlet tract that can be pushed in anywhere. Probably available from TEG Sport or similar. My mate Aigan may even sell it !
It is far easier with the engine out or at least when you can take the inlet manifold off so you can play about with the obstructing pipes. .( Also the FPR if you are going for 135 or 90 degree side entry.)
Removing the power steering reservoir on version 5 and 6 is far easier.
To overcome the need to relocate the power steering reservoir when going under the version 1 and 2 manifold I devised a cantored back turbo arrangement allowing front entry for TD05-06 20G etc. Perhaps Neil can post some photographs. I have several uppipes made ready for the next conversions.
When we went front entry on Jonny Gav's 96 car we used a 90 degree swept bend. We expected losses due to the 90 degree bend but in reality I don't think it cost any power.
On Alan Bell's car MY 96 I think we refined this and used a 135 degree swept bend, reducer. Alan may have photographs of that setup.
Both jobs were fiddly but the results were good.
To remove some of the hassle and struggle with 10mm spacers you could ask Carl Davey to produce these in 20mm material but I am firmly of the opinion that it is better to have the induction far shorter from the side and not under the manifold.
Neil: Any of the photos or information you have can be put on here if you think it is worthwhile. ( And know how to post photographs
)The inlet tract under the phase 1+2 is a pain. 10mm is enough if you use silicon piping instead of a Samco/MRT/Perrin inlet tracts and the easiest inlet tract other than Silicon piping is the Pro-drive Rally inlet tract that can be pushed in anywhere. Probably available from TEG Sport or similar. My mate Aigan may even sell it !
It is far easier with the engine out or at least when you can take the inlet manifold off so you can play about with the obstructing pipes. .( Also the FPR if you are going for 135 or 90 degree side entry.)
Removing the power steering reservoir on version 5 and 6 is far easier.
To overcome the need to relocate the power steering reservoir when going under the version 1 and 2 manifold I devised a cantored back turbo arrangement allowing front entry for TD05-06 20G etc. Perhaps Neil can post some photographs. I have several uppipes made ready for the next conversions.
When we went front entry on Jonny Gav's 96 car we used a 90 degree swept bend. We expected losses due to the 90 degree bend but in reality I don't think it cost any power.
On Alan Bell's car MY 96 I think we refined this and used a 135 degree swept bend, reducer. Alan may have photographs of that setup.
Both jobs were fiddly but the results were good.
To remove some of the hassle and struggle with 10mm spacers you could ask Carl Davey to produce these in 20mm material but I am firmly of the opinion that it is better to have the induction far shorter from the side and not under the manifold.
17 September 2006, 07:08 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: kent
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
neil,
would be very interested to hear how you get on with those ideas.
harvey,
my car is my 96 uk currently running td05 90 deg, i'm looking at changing my turbo for a front entry version to aid spool up? my understanding was the best way would be to lift the manifold and fit a custom or later inlet pipe under the manifold but after reading your post this doesn't seem the case? would fitting a bend and reducer set up you mentioned in the earlier post fitted to alans car be my best bet? thanks for the help and experience it's greatly appreciated.
would be very interested to hear how you get on with those ideas.
harvey,
my car is my 96 uk currently running td05 90 deg, i'm looking at changing my turbo for a front entry version to aid spool up? my understanding was the best way would be to lift the manifold and fit a custom or later inlet pipe under the manifold but after reading your post this doesn't seem the case? would fitting a bend and reducer set up you mentioned in the earlier post fitted to alans car be my best bet? thanks for the help and experience it's greatly appreciated.
20 September 2006, 08:46 PM
#16
Right.
Nothing too extreme, but when my FMIC was fitted they sorted my intake out... 2nd silicone pipe onto the 90 degree one from the turbo front entry but facing pretty much back towards car, into 90 degree alloy bend ( 70 mm inner diameter ) which returned the pipework to face to the front of car, then joined the resonator replacement pipe then the MAF and air filter.
Pics to follow ...
Nothing too extreme, but when my FMIC was fitted they sorted my intake out... 2nd silicone pipe onto the 90 degree one from the turbo front entry but facing pretty much back towards car, into 90 degree alloy bend ( 70 mm inner diameter ) which returned the pipework to face to the front of car, then joined the resonator replacement pipe then the MAF and air filter.
Pics to follow ...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
shorty87
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
19
22 December 2015 11:59 AM
bluebullet29
General Technical
9
05 October 2015 02:17 PM
