Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

Harvey sent me some pictures of the charge air temperature sensors and gauges he fitted to two of his cars. I thought they might be useful for anyone planning to fit one, so I posted them here.

With the TMIC, his tests showed it was relatively easy to see charge temperatures exceeding 70ēC, but with the FMIC temperatures were generally 2ēC above ambient or below up to 4500 rpm in the cruise and it was rare to have more than 12ēC above ambient, even on track.

STI 3 Wagon with TMIC.

http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/temp_gauge_1.jpg
http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/temp_sensor_1.jpg

95 WRX Wagon with one of his FMICs.

http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/temp_gauge_2.jpg
http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/temp_sensor_2.jpg

and some pictures of a Newage with one of his FMICs fitted:

http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/newage_fmic.jpg
http://www.billandelaine.co.uk/scoobystuff/harvey/newage_fmic_2.jpg

I'm considering fitting a gauge to monitor my TMIC temps, until the warranty is out when I'll fit one of Harvey's FMIC's. Has any one else fitted an ACT gauge? What temps have other people reached?

Cheers

Anders

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Here's my SPA dual gauge...

With temp linked to thermocouple wire in hole drilled into hose fro charge temp...



The car is blobeye WRX wagon with VF35 at 1.4 bar at approx 330 bhp. I'm using an STi TMIC but still using the small scoop and tweeked scoop plate.
At ambient of 23 deg C the charge temp went to a max of 36.2 deg C.
I've seen heat soak in traffic up to 65 deg C that disappears within 200m.
Othewise 95% of driving sees charge temp at most 1.5 above ambient.

Nick

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

Nick, thanks for the feedback. When you say the temp went to a max of 36.2 deg C, was that at 1.4 bar and how long were you pushing the car hard for?

Cheers

Anders

p1mark

I have had the same gauge as Harvey for quite a while now. good little bit of relatively inexpensive kit. Fit one with a TMIC and i guarantee you will be amazed at the soak etc. in traffic. you wont be hoofing away from trafic lights after you have stood there for a couple of minutes like you may have before.




Its fitted on a P1 currently giving 405 BHP. I used to have a big STI8 TMIC on, with a big scoop and splitter as well. Irrespective of ambients if i did a WOT run through the gears the temp just slowly climbed. By the time i was up in 5 th gear and knocking on i would be up at 50 deg and getting a bit of KL activity where i would back off. Basically i could not hold the car wide open for anymore than 1/2 mile or so. In this spec the car was around 380 BHP

In traffic you could go off the scale with all the heat soak so thats over 70 deg. Bimbling along off boost though it would stay a few degrees above ambient.

Now with a Hybrid FMIC on, map to suit, the temps are well under control.

Off boost similiar performance to TMIC but world of difference giving it some. Even track work and hooning down the straight at bruntingthorpe recently could get max of only 40 deg.

You get a bit of soak into the pipework in traffic but nothing like a TMIC and when you get moving it plummets to above ambient in 5 secs, not 300/400 yards like a TMIC.

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

Mark,

I learnt very early on that there's no point hoofing it when you've been stuck in traffic, or if you have the air con on. Boost doesn't go much above 0.6 BAR, limited by the ECU I guess.

My only test for checking air charge temps after hard runs has been to pull in to a service station, open the bonnet and feel the top of the TMIC. Not a great test because there would be a good half mile of cruising off boost before opening the bonnet. And yes, I did leave the engine running when I pulled in!

I'm going to speak to my dealer about fitted a guage. I don't trust myself and they are pretty sound about minor mods, so long as they're paid to do them.

Nick, how did you seal the sensor in place on your install?

Cheers

Anders

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Anders,
The temps I saw were during some delta dash and road dyno runs, up to about 1 mile of WOT. Peak boost is 1.4 bar, falling to 1.3 up to the WRX rev limit.
I drilled a 2mm hole in the connector hose and stuffed the wire probe through. It was a very tight fit but I still put some superglue over to seal just in case.

Nick

jd5217

links as to where to buy the gauge & probe from please

p1mark

I presume you forgot the please at the end of the question JD?


I got mine from nomad racing but the last time i looked they did not list it anymore.

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

i found and brought one off fleay bay? not seen any more for a while though

Daz_WRX

How much do these kits cost mate?

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

mine cost Ŗ25 + a bit of p&p

just found this as well, same as my one, same supplier.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Air-charge-tem...QQcmdZViewItem

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Nick : Do you know what sender is attached to your SPA guage?
The reason I ask is that I use quite a few SPA Boost/Temperature guages, just like yours and the temperature sensor is a very thin two strand wire which sits under the silicon joiner at the throttle body with no need for holes etc. The green wire you have sticking into the TMIC joiner is usually attached to a K-plug which has two prongs.
E-mail me if you want, per profile. I can send you photos of the probes if you want.

Andre : Thanks for going to the trouble of putting all this up. Trust Smiffy to find a cheaper source of supply. I was paying Ŗ40 odd with postage.
Fitting will be a doddle for anyone that can do small electrical jobs or put in a radio, so not necessarily a dealer job if you do not want to do it yourself.

Mark : We have both gone about this quite indpendant of each other and get very similar results and I share your conclusions/comments.

I drove a Type C with big APS TMIC recently and after a steady cruise, poped the bonnet, jumped out and felt the intercooler. It was too hot to keep my hand on.!!!
It would be interesting to get feedback, particularly on other top mount instals. Go on Andre.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Is that the one that had some poor feedback here on the forum with the temp probes breaking?

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea, you are obviously far better informed about this subject than i

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

Harvey, you beat me to that one on flea bay! So there's no need for drill holes in the TMIC to fit this type of gauge? I'd prefer that. I'd be worried the dealer would miss some of the swarf, which would make a nice mess of the pistons and bores. Can you send me a photo of what the probs look like on that one you've just ordered?

Does any one who's got a gauge fitted have a TMIC with a water spray? It would be good to see what effect the spray has. It might finally put that debate to rest.

I'll probably buy one and get the dealer to fit it. Does anyone know if the cig lighter is powered from permanent battery or ignition switch, they can take the power from there.

Cheers

Anders

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

i took a feed from the back of the radio, it has both switched and permanent live on there, take your pick

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Harvey,
My sender is also a wire K type sender. Its just that the plastic coating and wire gauge is thick enough to allow it to do a good sealing job in the hole.
It plugs into a home-made amplifier (didn't like the price of the SPA item) and on to the SPA gauge.
I stuck the wire through the hose to minimise any heat soak from touching metal parts.

Nick

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

I bought a gauge today from the same seller. I'll let you all know when its been fitted and what temperatures I'm reaching with and without IC water spray.

Cheers

Anders

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Here is some feedback on the ebay item.

https://www.scoobynet.com/anyone-got...y+nomad+sender

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Bob : Thanks for your words of caution. I had an envelope made out awaiting Ŗ26.50 postal order and the only reason it was not sent was because it is Sunday so no P.Os open.
I am sending a note to the vendor asking if the apparent problems have been resolved and will post the response on here when received.

Nick : I am not sure what sender you have used. The correct SPA sender should be a very thin 2 strand wire, green and white which sits under the rubber coupler to the throttle body. This wire feeds to a K-Box.

The readings you report are nothing like the readings I experience on several TMIC cars where 70 deg.C. is exceeded in all cases.

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

i will be interested in his response as well i think Harvey

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Harvey,
I didn't like the prices of the SPA K type probe and the adaptor box so I made up my own arrangement.
The sensor is a 0-250 K type t-couple and I made my own AD595C circuit board giving a 0-2.5 volt output for 10mV/C.
I found that the full scale & span needed altering in the SPA guage set up to read correctly.
I'll double check these settings as you seem concerned over my inlet temps.
What car did you get the 70 C readings from?

Nick

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Cheers Nick : Located on the TMIC, in the air flow prior to exit to the T.B. I have had readings exceeding 69.9 C on STi 3 Wagon 335 bhp +, UK M/Y03, 96 WRX about 350 bhp, 99 STi 5 and probably others. Also located in the air flow of M/Y 00 STi6 by SPA probe wire, prior to T.B. under the coupler pipe. this went to 84C which was frightening.
I have also fitted the guage to FMIC installs on several cars. 95 WRX, 98UK, STi 6, UK 03, WRX 03, STi 03, STi 04, and several more if I think about it.
I am yet to come across a top mount that does not exceed 70C and that includes uprated items from MRT and APS.

p1mark

In traffic they will all go that high without a doubt, but what you guys should be really looking for is Info from Harvey about what the temps are doing on a WOT run with the various different cars/ power levels / intercoolers.

If your temps rise and rise during a WOT run and dont stabilise then your intercooler is not up to the job.

To be fair in the stinking hot weather stuck in traffic even my FMIC was getting on for 70 degrees but its just soak into the pipe. with a bit of lagging/heat managment im sure i could cut this down.

Obviously the thin walled pipe cools rapidly almost as soon as you start moving, wheras a great lump of ally sat on top of your engine does not and takes a comparitevely long time.

dowser

My findings match Harvey's with regard to TMIC's and TB air temps. I also found that aftermarket doesn't necessarily do a better job than stock (anyone want to buy an APS TMIC for a phase 2 classic? ) over an extended period of abuse. Also note that you'll add about 5 degrees to your previous WOT temps if fitting a 6MT into a classic with TMIC......

Richard

Mother Theresa

With an STI8 TMIC an TD05 18G I managed to get inlet temps up to 50 degrees on the 120mph straight at the prodrive track in Warwick (ambient 19). In normal motoring (no queues in the countryside though) I can't get it above 5 degrees above ambient.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Right - I've checked my set up against an LCD meter with K type probe in hot water. All readings were IRO 73 deg C, as was the check meter - so I am happy with my method of measuring inlet temps.
So why am I getting lower ones than others?
Funnily enough, I was with Mother T at Prodrive on that day, but I can't recall ever seeing any inlet temps above 40 deg C as I would have backed off (as I've never seen anything so high).
Is my sensor location offering more insulation than having the sensor touching a part of the TB?
I've done nothing special to the air flow over the STI IC. I've kept the WRX scoop and tweaked the splitter from an STi to fit. I'm still running a 5MT.

Perhaps I'd better try one of the thin wire sensors and slip it under the hose.

BTW, the sensors I get are from:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/JMW-Limited


Nick

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

What power are you running at, if you don't me asking? From my limited knowledge of turbos, your larger turbo could be producing cooler charge air than the standard VF35 because its efficiency is better. Or does the fact that your pushing the 18G to the limit take this out of the equation?

Cheers

Anders

Mother Theresa

Don't know the power I'm afraid. I just had my foot nailed for the duration of that straight before tippy-toeing round that horrible corner at the top. The car was mapped at Zen on the hottest day of the year with an ambient of 38 degrees and 43 at the MAF so I knew it would be safe enough.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

You pulled away from me very noticeably from the exit of the chicane and onto the long straight, so there's a very heathly dollop of torque low down - the 18g looks a very nice proposition for the future.


Nick