PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

Been on the rollers today at WRC Tech at Silverstone on the Southern rolling road day but unfortunately with poor results. Torque was reasonable at over 250lbs but power was only 215bhp!
This was on a UK MY99 with full decat, filter, tek3 remap and uprated fuel-pump.Previously rr'd at 266bhp with just tek2 and exhaust so somewaht mystified. The guy on the rolling road said he thought it was detonation setting in about 5000 revs as the power builds ok untill then but then levels out/drops away a bit instead of climbing to 7000-ish. Boost is ok with 1.1/1.2 bar peak dropping back to 0.9 bar. Knocklink shows very little activity-maybe 1 green at 90-100 on motorway but nothing else. The guy on the rr suggested the knock-link wasn't working properly. How do you check? It's set at max sensitivity and have tried the knocking near the sensor with spanner trick but have never managed to get any lights up doing this.
Any ideas - what would cause the det? how to check the knock-link is working properly?

PeteS

PS Maf,Lamda and plugs all replaced within the last 12 months.

dj219957

You should be able to get all the lights on the KL to glow if you tap the bolt of the sensor with a spanner. If not there is problem. Most likely dry joints on the led legs. Easy fix just touch them with a solder iron. Mine was duff from new and before i even fitted it i opened it up to find dry loose joints.
Its common.

Andy

PeterStone

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Anyone else?

PeteS

PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

This is one of the rolling road printouts. As you can see the torque is in the right area - 250+lbs but the bhp seems to peek at just under 5000rpm instead of continuing to rise to 7000rpm (red line?). It was holding 1.1/1.2 bar of boost so am stumped.

PeteS



MY99-UK Full De-cat, Filter, Tek3 custom remap & uprated fuel pump.

PeterStone

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No-one?

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Detonation can be caused by various things,one of the more common ones is using the wrong grade of fuel,but seeing as yours is a uk car i cant see that being a problem.Another cause is a problem with the air/fuel mixture ie too much air and not enough fuel causing the engine to run lean.As someone mentioned earlier try tapping the Knocklink sensor with a spanner (while the engine is running or ignition on) and get someone to check if all the lights light up.
Mine was also well down on power at WRC yesterday compared with another rr day a few months back.Hope you get it sorted

Dark Blue Mark

Pete,

Get the knocklink checked as you may find something up there.. if the timing has been retarded a fair bit due to det, that may explain it. I would also give Bob a call and see what his thoughts are.

How does the car feel compared to when it was first mapped? Was the pump fitted afterwards?

The curve look very odd to me. All the top end power has gone, which might suggest its struggling to fuel at high rpm / boost. Also worth noting that where the power curve should take off at about 3000 rpm, there's a change in the direction of the curve. This is about the point the ECU / MAF goes into open loop fuelling. Can you comment on the lambda reading supplied?

When I had my UK turbo with same mods (only Tek2 and dawes) I was seeing 270/260 although on PE rollers.

MB

PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies.

The other two graphs are attached-one showing the lamda readings and the other boost.







PeteS

Dark Blue Mark

Boost looks ok early on at 1.2 bar peak, but doesn't seem to hold that well - drops to 0.85 which is low IMO. (17.5psi to 12.3 psi) Normally should only lose 0.2 bar between peak and held on a good setup.

Do you have a Dawes fitted? Cleaned the boost solenoid? Any leaks?

Cant open the lambda one so cant comment in that one,

MB

Dark Blue Mark

If that lambda's a voltage, it looks very low too! About 0.65 which would not be good at all.

0.9 is generally acceptable on WOT. take it VERY steady...

Failing MAF is likely.

MB

Pavlo

Your AFR has flatlined becuase it's too rich to be measured by the sensor. That, combined with the falling boost is the reason for your loss of power, if the ECU is going into safe mode too, you're bolloxed!

What powertrain changes have been made since last mapping? (please do not exclude anything no matter how insignificant you think it is!)

It could also be a boost leak after the turbo, this would explain both low boost and rich AFR, so check the turbo->intercooler hoses and so on.

Paul

Dark Blue Mark

Pav, what's the AFR doing below 2800 rpm? Thought it should still be bouncing in closed loop at that point? I could see it making 0.5 bar and going into closed loop after that (run was in 3rd gear) - but it looks a bit odd like the voltage is droping off - failing sensor causing a real change in AFR?

MB

Pavlo

the Lambda reading on that graph is LAMBDA not voltage. so LAMBDA=1 is stoich or 14.7:1 AFR. The wideband on the DD rolling road can't read AFR of less than 10:1. I would expect a standard subaru ECU to go that rich at the top end but not a BRD remap.

Paul

Dark Blue Mark

Ah, I couldnt open that one fully, only see the small pics.

Just to add, im not sure if its BRD - assumption by me!

MB

PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies.

The Tek3 remap was done by Richard Bulmer at TSL who fitted the uprated fuel pump at the same time. It was rechecked last November by him as i said i thought it hesitated between 2000-3000 rpm on part-throttle and he said it was fine with no pulsing or anything. I had previously replaced both maf and lamda sensors which helped but didn't cure totally. I've also cleaned the boost solenoid and checked for fault codes.

If i do need to get it looked at should i take it somewhere local (Triton?) or does it need to go somewhere with a Tek mapping guru?

PeteS

Dark Blue Mark

Triton wouldn't be able to look at the MAP but they could give the car the once over. They do have the select monitor so may be able to see what's causing the fuelling issues.

Id speak to TSL and say you're not happy with the results, and explain the problem. It would be surprising if there was a major fault in the map that would cause a 50 bhp ish drop in the power - so possibly not their fault. As Pav says, the ECU looks as though its struggling.

Have a good look round for any air leaks, boost hoses and IC pipework are common ones...

MB

PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

Have cleaned the boost solenoid and pipework and noticed that i have an error code 45 which is the boost solenoid. Could a dodgy boost solenoid give these sort of symptoms or could i have damaged it by cleaning it?
I don't know if the fault code was there before cleaning the solenoid.

PeteS

Dark Blue Mark

Do an ECU reset and see what it does/if it comes back. Im out of my depth on faults with the boost solenoid as I haven't had a fault with one, so dont know if its a "broken or not broken type" but if the ECU has been learning its way around a faulty one, and you've fixed it by cleaning - a reset might unconfuse it.

Worth a go.

MB

Bob Rawle

I was just going to mention this is NOT one of mine but thanks for clarifying that Peter, Peter I have a mapping session booked for some cars with Andy at Triton (15th May IIRC) so if you like I will run the rule over it for you then and sort out what needs doing. Or just get back in touch with TSL of course as I agree its running totaly choked with fuel, that afr reading is not normal and is a clear sign of too rich, the boost held is down to the settings in the maps but its tailing a bit early and could be held to 5800 before it will fall over to about 1 bar naturally irrespective of any duty cycle settings.

If the error code is historic then it's probably due to ign being turned on with connector off (when you cleaned it?), its holding boost above actuator minimum so probably down to overfueling or map settings.

Forget my pm asking for mod state as you have it all on here.

best regards

bob

Dark Blue Mark

Bob, didn't think it was one of your's - was reading another post and got muddled

MB

PeterStone

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply Bob. That would be great if you could look at it at Triton on the 15th May. Do i have to arrange it with Triton or do i just turn up? What sort of time is best?

PeteS

PeterStone

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Have done a reset and the error code hasn't come back. Only driven around the block but car seems smoother but livelier. Does this point to the maf? Would i gain anything by putting my old maf on which is ok i think. How do you test mafs? The old one passed the unplug maf and stall test.

PeteS

PeterStone

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Have now had the intercooler off and checked all hoses/connections.One thing i did notice on refitting is there's a small crack around the base of the main nipple(?) on the blow-off valve.You can actually bend the nipple.Could this be the problem and do i need a new blow-off valve?

PeteS

Dark Blue Mark

Dont think its the MAF now the lambda graph has been explained - but would take Bob's advice on it. Im only an amatuer fiddler Leaking BOV can be a reason for boost loss - not sure exactly where you mean but if theres any chance of air leakage, the car wont like it.

Its still best to let Bob plug into it, it can usually be diagnosed quite quickly... you can look and see if there has been any retarding of ignition timing, and other clues...

MB

Dark Blue Mark

Think you mean the vac line from the BOV?

MB

PeterStone

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It goes into the inlet manifold (I think).The nipple is about an inch long.

Pete