My alternative to the APS Cold air kit - Guidance needed please
28 January 2005, 09:37 PM
#1
My alternative to the APS Cold air kit - Nearly complete with pics
I have left my original message intact below.
I have fabricated the tubing needed and got everything in place except for the wing back in place. It seems to run fine although I cant road test it yet.
I have had to extend the wiring from the MAF. Will this cause any problems? I only ask as one of the wires has some shielding (coax) and my new piece of wiring does not.
Have a look here. Very open to critism here. Pics via mobile phone, sorry!!
I have sent my APS cold air induction kit back to G-Force for a refund due to all the horror stories posted on SN.
I am still determined to make my own kit and have started to fabricate the following. I just want to know what the tuners have to say about this.
I am going to run a section of stainless tube from the inlet pipe, that runs through the manifold, out through the inner wing and down into the arch. The MAF will be located at the end of this pipe with my current K&N filter attached. I'm hoping that the lack of 90 deg bend before the MAF will eliminate the problems associated with the APS kit.
Apart from weather proofing the MAF, will this length of pipe cause any forseable problems?
Thanks for any help,
Wayne.
I have fabricated the tubing needed and got everything in place except for the wing back in place. It seems to run fine although I cant road test it yet.
I have had to extend the wiring from the MAF. Will this cause any problems? I only ask as one of the wires has some shielding (coax) and my new piece of wiring does not.
Have a look here. Very open to critism here. Pics via mobile phone, sorry!!
I have sent my APS cold air induction kit back to G-Force for a refund due to all the horror stories posted on SN.
I am still determined to make my own kit and have started to fabricate the following. I just want to know what the tuners have to say about this.
I am going to run a section of stainless tube from the inlet pipe, that runs through the manifold, out through the inner wing and down into the arch. The MAF will be located at the end of this pipe with my current K&N filter attached. I'm hoping that the lack of 90 deg bend before the MAF will eliminate the problems associated with the APS kit.
Apart from weather proofing the MAF, will this length of pipe cause any forseable problems?
Thanks for any help,
Wayne.
Last edited by Welloilbeefhooked; 14 February 2005 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Update
28 January 2005, 10:26 PM
#2
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Could try it, but also consider the vibrations the MAF might get in the wing - relatively unsupported there. Also check the AFR on a wideband (and check for det) for any novel intake changes. If you are going to make great benefits from induction changes you'll probably benefit from engine management anyway IMHO.
28 January 2005, 11:42 PM
#3
You will get best results from a relatively short intake, as straight as possible, with any bends as smooth as possible and an adequately sized, quality filter such as K+N.
Consider segregating an area between the chasis rail and inner wing to locate the filter and isolating it from engine and underbonnet heat.
If you want photographs of this sort of system send me BY e-MAIL your e-mail address.
Quite a few of these sytems are giving very good results.
BTW the filter does not have to be a cone. For instance it could be cylindrical.
Consider segregating an area between the chasis rail and inner wing to locate the filter and isolating it from engine and underbonnet heat.
If you want photographs of this sort of system send me BY e-MAIL your e-mail address.
Quite a few of these sytems are giving very good results.
BTW the filter does not have to be a cone. For instance it could be cylindrical.
28 January 2005, 11:56 PM
#4
Cheers fella's
John, I thought about the movement of the MAF and decided upon a mounting bracket for it to stop it flopping around. Dont quite understand all this wideband stuff but have a scoobymonitor that I use to check AFR etc(Knocklink as well). Is this ok?
Harvey,
I have used an enclosed box that I knocked together with a few sheets of aliminium, but was impressed with the fit.
I will PM you with my email address.
Thanks again.
John, I thought about the movement of the MAF and decided upon a mounting bracket for it to stop it flopping around. Dont quite understand all this wideband stuff but have a scoobymonitor that I use to check AFR etc(Knocklink as well). Is this ok?
Harvey,
I have used an enclosed box that I knocked together with a few sheets of aliminium, but was impressed with the fit.
I will PM you with my email address.
Thanks again.
29 January 2005, 10:35 AM
#5
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MAF may be trickier to change quickly by the roadside if necessary, which may be so if you don't know it is going to be reliable. Scoobymonitor will give you a guide based on the narrow or semi-wideband sensor installed in your car depending on its age, but for a novel induction setup on a MAF based ECU I think you need to KNOW the AFR with a wideband. Otherwise you might be best going for something which has known signal and MAF reliability off the shelf?
29 January 2005, 11:17 AM
#6
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Wayne, what were the problems with the APS, I've now fitted mine and after a visit to BR, the car's running really well, he certainly did'nt seem have a problem with it.
Is it when you fit these without a remap or are there other issues ?
Jon.
Is it when you fit these without a remap or are there other issues ?
Jon.
29 January 2005, 03:37 PM
#7
Jon,
It is down to the remap as you say. I am not wanting to remap yet but still want a system sorted out now. I will go that route in the future but I am trying to get as many things done as I can that dont require a remap.
Also, I just like messing with stuff. (blown engine on its way!!)
It is down to the remap as you say. I am not wanting to remap yet but still want a system sorted out now. I will go that route in the future but I am trying to get as many things done as I can that dont require a remap.
Also, I just like messing with stuff. (blown engine on its way!!)
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29 January 2005, 09:22 PM
#8
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Mess with anything 'air' related and your going to need that remap 
Why not wait until the map and do it all at the same time..
There are 2 group buys going on at the moment...
Why not wait until the map and do it all at the same time..
There are 2 group buys going on at the moment...
14 February 2005, 10:28 PM
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Wayne, what are you trying to achieve? Is it just that you like to inner wing design for the beinfit of cold air?
As Harvey say's, there are good ways of supplying cold air to one in the engine bay too.
MB
As Harvey say's, there are good ways of supplying cold air to one in the engine bay too.
MB
14 February 2005, 10:48 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Wayne, what are you trying to achieve? Is it just that you like to inner wing design for the beinfit of cold air?
As Harvey say's, there are good ways of supplying cold air to one in the engine bay too.
MB
As Harvey say's, there are good ways of supplying cold air to one in the engine bay too.
MB
I tried the cold air feed and shield under the bonnet but thought it looked ugly. I want to see what happens with this kit in terms of fuelling etc.
Just something to do with the 2lt before I spend on a 2.5 and remap.
14 February 2005, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Welloilbeefhooked
Andy,
Why is the ABS pump thingy as close to the strut? Mine is directly behind the head lamp.
Why is the ABS pump thingy as close to the strut? Mine is directly behind the head lamp.
Because I moved it there to make room for the K&N.
wasn't hard.
Andy
14 February 2005, 11:15 PM
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Fuzz, is the end of the cone not too close to the hole in the wing? May be better to shorten the inlet pipe a couple of inches to stop the air dead heading on the end plate of the cone. You could have the bell mouth butt up against your fabricated box.
Maybe its just the angle the pic is taken at?
MB
Maybe its just the angle the pic is taken at?
MB
14 February 2005, 11:19 PM
#19
Ecu Specialist
Its bad news to fit the maf in that position, apart from the vibration issues and the risk of liquid contamination the extreme distance from the air inlet will cause maf scaling issues so it can ONLY be done with a remap and some crossed fingers that the output voltage at light throttle keeps the engine load on the island so to speak.
bob
bob
14 February 2005, 11:23 PM
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there are two pipes feeding cold air to that box, one into each hole there from the now remved wedge in the bumber and one from the oblong splitter at the bottom of the bumber.
Also removed rubber strip at lip of bonnet in that area.
Next mod is to add a scoop over the top, at the moment I've just removed underguard.
Enough air me thinks.
Can't shorten pipe anyway, the cone behind the filter hits my boost pipe that runs just under the cold box (reason why its shaped shallower at the bottom.
Andy
Andy
Also removed rubber strip at lip of bonnet in that area.
Next mod is to add a scoop over the top, at the moment I've just removed underguard.
Enough air me thinks.
Can't shorten pipe anyway, the cone behind the filter hits my boost pipe that runs just under the cold box (reason why its shaped shallower at the bottom.
Andy
Andy
15 February 2005, 07:24 AM
#22
Interesting subject; some questions please of you experts:
1
Why is the stock panel filter with the resonator cut/opened/removed from the front wing not work as well as all the mods?
Cold air is drawn from the inner wing only if you seal off the hole from the headlamp scoop to the resonator.
2
Can the engine (in my case an Sti v3) get enough air with the above mod?
3
If you fabricate the MAF housing into the inlet tract in the same position as stock will the maf signal the same to avoid a remap?I cant imagine the cone K&N being that much better flowing and filtering than, say, an Sti panel/Green Cotton filter?
911
1
Why is the stock panel filter with the resonator cut/opened/removed from the front wing not work as well as all the mods?
Cold air is drawn from the inner wing only if you seal off the hole from the headlamp scoop to the resonator.
2
Can the engine (in my case an Sti v3) get enough air with the above mod?
3
If you fabricate the MAF housing into the inlet tract in the same position as stock will the maf signal the same to avoid a remap?I cant imagine the cone K&N being that much better flowing and filtering than, say, an Sti panel/Green Cotton filter?
911
15 February 2005, 07:40 AM
#23
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a small point from my observations
if it is bad news to mount the MAF there, cant you mout the maf whereabouts it normally would be, but still run the long pipe to the filter near the front bumper, would that work?
if it is bad news to mount the MAF there, cant you mout the maf whereabouts it normally would be, but still run the long pipe to the filter near the front bumper, would that work?
15 February 2005, 03:36 PM
#26
Some good points made by all.
Graham, the APS one does indeed do a very similar job, but it has a bend before the MAF, hence a remap is needed. My attempt was to have the MAF drawing its air in the same way it was mapped for when fitted under the bonnet. Its an MY98 with a Zerosports ECU, so I dont think it is mappable.
Sticky,
I may mount the MAF in its original location in the end to see how that works. Again I think I am in the realms of mapping territory.
THE RESULTS
It ticks over at least 100rpm slower than before.
I normaly run 1.2bar and even on 1bar it shows the oranges on the KL.
It runs like a pig at a constant 80 on the motorway, missing, popping and the rest.
AFR was normally 916 at WOT and was down to low 800's with this setup. Not good by anyones standard.
Well, its now back to standard until I get a new ECU. What will allow me to loose the MAF? I think the Power FC I was looking at still uses a MAF?
Cheers,
Wayne.
PS looked good though!?
Graham, the APS one does indeed do a very similar job, but it has a bend before the MAF, hence a remap is needed. My attempt was to have the MAF drawing its air in the same way it was mapped for when fitted under the bonnet. Its an MY98 with a Zerosports ECU, so I dont think it is mappable.
Sticky,
I may mount the MAF in its original location in the end to see how that works. Again I think I am in the realms of mapping territory.
THE RESULTS
It ticks over at least 100rpm slower than before.
I normaly run 1.2bar and even on 1bar it shows the oranges on the KL.
It runs like a pig at a constant 80 on the motorway, missing, popping and the rest.
AFR was normally 916 at WOT and was down to low 800's with this setup. Not good by anyones standard.
Well, its now back to standard until I get a new ECU. What will allow me to loose the MAF? I think the Power FC I was looking at still uses a MAF?
Cheers,
Wayne.
PS looked good though!?
15 February 2005, 05:56 PM
#27
The FC uses the MAF.
I think you need to elevate to GEMS/Motec to loose the maf (?)
Nobody willing to state the stock panel filter with resonater cut out will do the job?
I'm sticking with that system for the AndyF map on thursday....
911
I think you need to elevate to GEMS/Motec to loose the maf (?)
Nobody willing to state the stock panel filter with resonater cut out will do the job?
I'm sticking with that system for the AndyF map on thursday....
911
15 February 2005, 06:02 PM
#28
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A link will lose you the MAF, cheaper than Motec too.
Get it off www.brdevelopments.com.
Bob Rawle is your man.
Andy
Get it off www.brdevelopments.com.
Bob Rawle is your man.
Andy