scooby L

What is the prefered turbo upgrade for the Eu STI MY03?..
Do people go down the twin scroll JDM unit, or something less stock?
I am not looking for a major power increase, but 350 would be nice.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Ninnybobs did 351 BHP last week on a front entry TD05 with supporting mods on his MY01 WRX.

I would have thought the stock STi would be good for 333 though !! (please insert reference here to TSL "tripple three")

Midlife.....

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

If your car is already PPP'd then don't bother! If not then remap or PPP it. There isn't that much difference between a 315BHP STI and 350BHP STI on the road. To be significantly faster than PPP'd STI you'll need 400BHP+.

What I'm trying to say is that you won't be happy with 350 so don't waste your money, aim for the 400 to be happy for more than 5 minutes IMHO.

F

scooby L

Cheers Guys

I have had the ecuteck remap, with a power output of 290bhp on powerstaions rollers, do not know what that would give on some of the other rollers though.
Just thought the twin scroll rollerbearing turbo would give a better spool up from 2,500rpm?

The Fixer

I used to run a Lateral Performance MD321 on my 03 EU STi, I achieved 362HP on G-Force's & Well Lane's Rollers. That was on standard un-ported headers. Believe me, the car is quick at that power, let alone 400 HP, and will easily wipe the floor with PPP'd only cars. Of course the other supporting mods will all add to that as the turbo is rated for much more.


Twin scroll version will run out of steam circa 350 also, just like your standard VF35 (355 limit) plus theres the added cost of new up-pipe & downpipe to suit the twin scroll set-up. As go for all that, you as well get a Garret GT series turbo, rotated up-pipe & downpipe instead.


Conrad

scooby L

Cheers RSVR,

Do you have a link to someone who stocks this unit?

When I put in a search on the web all I get are printers!! PMSL

The Fixer

Lateral Peformance = 0208 420 5444 ask for Mark, I think he has a used one in which is even better.

scooby L

p1doc

how driveable is that as my remap is nice and smooth and i would like to keep it like that-is it possible on the MD321?
what supporting mods are needed to ensure engine staying in one piece?
martin

john banks

What is an MD321? Is it a Garrett or VF core? Can it spool up earlier than a TD05/06-20G and manage a comfortable 400 BHP on any dyno with a low turbo failure rate? If not what is the point?

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

John

Comfortable 400bhp?
Depends on whose rollers and fuel used!!

I dont think that you'd get a comfortable 400 bhp on either G Forces or Powerstation rollers with a td05/06 running lets say Optimax and NF......

However I think you'd very comfortably get the 400bhp you were after at Well Lane or Star.................... baaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

For 350bhp then there is no choice really - you'd opt for the revised TD05/06 (with the different housing to remove the surge) - nice turbo for the low amount of money

Time to move onwards and upwards

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

Is there a pic out of the new housing(to remove the surge) ?


Skassa

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Dont know if AndyF has sorted this?

john banks

Interesting. Averaging published dyno results for 99 or 00 cars with or without decat gives Star reading below PS, and all the five engines with 20Gs on them that I know of that have run at Star have all done over 400 BHP at least once, 4 were 2.0s, one a 2.5. Two claimed to be running plain Optimax, another ran NF but OEM headers, and the other two were 434 and 440 BHP with methanol & NF.

I believe the ported shroud has not been further developed on this turbo because the results were not satisfactory.

Bob Rawle

Come on John you know v well that even Andy got his best figs using exotic fuel mix, its a good turbo and does a good job but don't oversell it, there is no need. Andy, I'm sure, would confirm you need to run non std fuel to get 430bhp from them. And that goes for the Garrett equivelants as well.

Steve's car is mapped to the point of meltdown and still it won't get anywhere near mine (Sti5) running Optimax and booster and to all extent apart from that his spec is similar.

cheers

bob

john banks

I'm not overselling it Bob... "434 and 440 with methanol and NF"

I am unfair to say it is 400 comfortable on Optimax?

A full bottle of NF or methanol 10-15% mix or a bit of both seems good for about 10% extra.

john banks

Or am I missing the point and the MD321 is actually a 700+ CFM Garrett like on your '5? In which case obviously it has more potential and the higher boost threshold may make up for it depending on usage, gearing, compression and engine size. There are so many three digit turbos that it is difficult to keep up

There was a 20G alternative that was supposed to be surge free but had a very truncated maximum pressure ratio and had a habit of exploding compressor wheels, but it seemed to make less top end than the 20G and spool up the same?

Not saying the 20G is the best turbo out there (there isn't such a thing), just offering some relevant alternatives in a thread discussing 350+ BHP turbos.

There are enough duff turbos floating about with poor spool up AND poor top end that some caution is advised?

Bob Rawle

John agreed that it offers a good upgrade but on Optimax and realistic NF would probably give 380/390 ish with some comfort, my turbo at 1.5 bar ran a touch over 420 ish. I wouldn't make wild claims about its airflow ability although there are plenty out there who will tell you how crap it is ... lol.

Steves car is similar to mine, so therefore they are good comparitor's. I wouldn't say its a good upgrade for a MY03 STi though, you would need to back the cams off big time to make any sense of the boost spool, you can have too much too soon as you know.

I know what I would use and its good for at least 400 with good spool (relatively) on the MY03 STi wether JDM or UK, and I really don't care if opinion states that something else would give 50 bhp more, its what works and has been shown to work, and its not the turbo on the STi5. However I will put it to the proof as and when.

bob

john banks

Bob, with crappy UK cams, OEM headers and an induction setup that is supposed to be seriously restrictive over 330 BHP my old 2.0 did 406 BHP at Star with admittedly slightly unreaslistic NF dosage, but no more than I hear Steve uses - ie full bottle per tank.

Agree with the issue re spool up/surge though, seems a relatively small price to pay though.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

John

It all depends on the rollers

I dont think that 380-390 is short selling at all on the td05/06 - well not on GForces/PS rollers anyway

I got 414.5 at PS and the same day got 419.5 at G force. This saturday I got similar but lower numbers at 398 and 409 respectively - this gives a typical average difference of 8bhp between GForce and PS

On average over the years I have achieved between 45-60 bhp difference between PS and Well Lane - one 2 such occasions on the same day (I would do PS then drive up to Well Lane for 12.30!!!)

I got 383bhp about 2 months ago at PS then I used a slightly better fuel mixture and got 414.5bhp..........

Hence:

I would be confident of 383 at PS with optimax and NF
I would be confident of 391 at GF with Optimax and NF
I would also be confident of a prudent 428bhp at Well Lane with Optimax and NF

I would only be confident on a very cold day of these numbers

The problem is that the rollers read so differently

For sure the Turbo is excellent value for money and feels very rapid at the low boost levels it runs at - i.e 1.5-1.6 bar (Max!) but I got 403bhp without Water injection and External headers at Well Lane with a VF22md195........

Plus I am happy with how the power feels on the road - problem is that the bug hits and I want an extra 100bhp that a bigger turbo will give me now - just as I may want more once the bigger turbo is on - the next step would be that I'd get a Porsche and modify that!! - I was under no disollsions - I knew that the Turbo would achieve circa 430-440 at Well Lane which I believe it will with Meths mixture - but it wont get these numbers down South - unless you put a fair whack of Tolulene in............ or some other variant of high octane fuelling

I guess I'm saying that you can have whatever number you feel you have if you want to base on Star or say Well Lane (I know from runs at Star I've noted that the numbers are not hugely disimilar) then thats fine - but a car with 400bhp at PS will be significantly faster than a car that produces 400bhp at Star or Well Lane - you can argue the toss -but on a rolling road such as say G Force the car would be on its limits at 390bhp with Optimax and Booster - but then for many and from the question this would be more than enough and the Turbo is very cheap.............

R19KET

John,

Just for the record, the MD321 uses a Garrett GT30 series core, a little smaller than the one used on Rannoch's car, but with a smaller compressor cover, and an IHI P18 exhaust housing, so it can be fitted in the standard location.

Mark.

Andy.F

Steve

I have it in my notes that your car made 419 bhp 362 torque at G force.
This aligns nicely with Alan G's figures of 415bhp 352 torque at Star.

Alans runs were on Optimax and 1.4 bar of boost.

Yours is the only one of my turbos I know that has run at PS. The difference between Star and PS MAHA rollers is that PS do not compensate for the ambient temperature. This makes PS the inaccurate one, not Star !! So on a cold day at PS you could gain horses, on a hot day you will lose some.
As for other southern rollers, Tweenyrob ran his MY95 at PE and got 415bhp IIRC.
As JB mentioned earlier, half a dozen of them have run comfortably over 400 bhp, some running plain Optimax, most using a moderate amount of octane booster.
My own result of 440.5 was using some Methanol in the fuel. It was however at only 1.45bar boost and on a standard internals phase 1 engine with very mild low lift cams.

Perhaps your latest results are getting lower because you are trying to run too much boost ? It is possible to reduce the power output by over working the turbo and missing the efficiency zones on the compressor curve. On a number of cars, UK and Sti, I have found the 'sweet spot' at 1.4 - 1.45 bar, this is the zone where it will accept lots of timing advance.

Here is an example of an Sti 7 with this turbo (still on TMIC and sports cat)
Interesting how it compares to the std VF35

The full thread referring to a Sti7 is here - http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=297784

Andy

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

See, I told you, everyone needs 400bhp these days!

F

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Floyd

Nahhhh - 500bhp