quattro

Webmaster,

Kindly allow the membership to understand motives, reasons and urge to delete Dr. Skarsten's post in which he, as per your constructive suggestion and encouragement, gave (perhaps, for some, excessively) positive comments about suppliers he seemed to have had good experiences with?

This question is being asked out of sheer personal curiosity as, thankfully (no matter how much pleasing they can be), I do not build foundations of any business activity on complimentary remarks.

Hoping the above question would not qualify for immediate deletion as well, I remain,

respectfully,

q.

HorseRadish

Quattro,

With all due respect, take a look at:

BarryK

Ooooooohh! Sauce!

ex-webby

Hi Quattro (and all)

I spoke to Anders by phone to discuss his post and we amecably decided to remove the post.

I respect Anders for his mature attitude towards this, and that of another party whos post on this thread was removed for similar reasons.

The fact of the matter is, the message in that post (no matter how naive you are) could potentially be viewed as a statement made by ommission.

I think I have always made it clear how much I HATE censorship and removing threads. It was ALWAYS the prime goal for this board to be a place where people can chat about whatever they like AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL!

Please understand that this kind of thing is the hardest and most soul destroying part of running scoobynet.

I do not make the law, but must stick to it, the same as everyone else.

Regards

Webmaster

Anders

Power Station are really cool as well

Demon tweaks and GGR have never let me down either, also I think Barretts Motor Sport are the Hectors' danglies

Quenbies in Baldock are worth a mention

Pro Drive are useful

harj

There is a small little garage on the hilltop on Camberon Green in Southern Ireland who have been very helpful to motorists when passing through, this little garage still pumps fuel manually by a clerk

Harj....

rsquire

Well sad,,, really

but here in the colonies we've become used to this kinda service.

In fact hand jobs are the norm. Especially in Oregon for some reason.. Sadly we only get 92 octane...

Richard

Oh yeah and Branco / Bob

Friggin awesome products

Truly meant by a simple minded colonial



[This message has been edited by rsquire (edited 04 October 2000).]

JoeyDeacon

So are you saying that when you go to buy petrol you usually get a hand job??

Sorry couldn't resist......

Anders

As a fellow BBS owner I can understand Simon's anxiety not to provoke a back lash from a snubbed supplier!

I think that Scoobysport and BRD are adequate and I am not prepared to eulogise them again, as I do not want to upset other suppliers who I may or may not hold in disdain

harj

Personally I think that Simon Chamberlin at GGR is very helpful and has some great advice when it comes to Scoobies, job well done to the GGR lads

Quattro,

I think an Oxford Dictionary and a Grammer Book should be attached to your threads, sorry I only speak the Queens plain English.

Harj.....

[This message has been edited by harj (edited 04 October 2000).]

rsquire

harj

or even the Queen's plain english LOL

Richard
damn he editted it LOL

[This message has been edited by rsquire (edited 04 October 2000).]

quattro

Webmaster,

Thank you for your "clarifications" which brilliantly succeeded in not answering any of the questions I initially asked.

While I was given a slightly different interpretation of the events preceding your deletion of Anders's post (not that it matters - I am well used to distortion of tales as they pass on to the next generation), I would like to know which "law" were you referring to? Law as in "legal language", or self-imposed set of rules and regulations to which you may be entitled as a Webmaster of this bbs?

You used the term "legal" as if there was something in the post I asked about that would not be legal. I am not interested in "other" post(s) you may have deleted and they are not the issue. As someone who is not totally ignorant about (to this bbs) interesting aspects of law, such as deformation of character, defamatory statements, libel, etc. I still cannot see any of those present within one single sentence that Anders wrote. Unless, of course, his favourite Smilies may have been illegal?

If you wish, feel free to email for any more detailed discussion. It is plain obvious no one is really interested in the substance of this matter anyway.

thanks
q.

ex-webby

Quattro

I am very sorry that you didn't think my reply answered your questions. I can assure you this was not intended to have "brilliantly succeeded in not answering any of the questions I initially asked" as you put it, but purely because I thought it did.

The term legal was mentioned for the following reason..

I was advised that, in the context of the thread it appeared in, it *could* be considered libellous.

If *you* want to take the risk, I suggest you set up your own Bulletin Board and post whatever you like.

The thread did not lose anything by the post being removed.

Tell me what I should have done!

Running scoobynet is hard work (which I am delighted to do) and costly (which I am delighted to be able to fund), but I am not going to go to court and lose a libel case becuase I did not act when I had been warned that it was necesary.

This thread and your comments have just made it more difficult, and even more soul destroying to do an impossible job which already has no rewards.

I tell you what. If you sign a document that says you will take full legal responsibility for the posts on this bulletin board, I will re-instate that post on your request, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking an enormous burden from me.

Regards

webmaster

tizard99

Um, interesting topic of discusion. Now, I am about to take my newly aquired import scooby to Scoobysport (because I live near it but also because they strike me as a company that knows what it is doing), for a service, I personnally didn't read the removed thread but I get the opinion that certain companies were said to 'not be up to scratch' (edited by TIZARD99) the word "Adequate" as said by Anders in this topic doesn't instill confidence in me of getting a good job (or is it a playing down of how good they actually are).

Anyway, I agree purely being spiteful shouldn't be on this BBS but I for one would like to tell fellow members of this board if I had a bad experience of a company with my pride and JOY, so they would not befall the same disapointment, equally in the way I would tell people of any good recommendations.

If something is a fact and provable truth then it is not libel is it? and should be allowed on this board?

Trev.

[This message has been edited by tizard99 (edited 04 October 2000).]

ex-webby

Hi Trev

You are dead right as I understand it.

The post in question cannot really be discussed, but your post goes to show how potentially damaging mis-understood posts can be...

It is possible that you now have a question in your mind about a company that you would not otherwise have had.

We have never had any problem with negative comments, as long as they are constructive.

Can I suggest that you post in the relevant forum (general if you like) for information on a good place to take you car. This will give you the information you need, i am sure.

You should NOT draw any conclusions about ANY companies from the comments in this thread.

regards

webmaster

Yex

Trev,

You won't have any problems at ScoobySport

Yex

tizard99

Cheers Web & Yex, to be honest the bloke on the phone was well friendly and you can't get better customer service than someone who has an interest in what you want them to do.

Trev

harj

I still need a dictionary and a grammer book

PLUTO

I agree with you Harj since I have had my STI5 the two lads at GGR have been a great help.It must be the first company I know that has something in stock that they advertise.
Ok you may pay alittle more on some ocassions
but the service is outstanding.Wrx parts never a problem.
Back you all the way Harj.
cheers pluto

quattro

Dear Webmaster,

I took your agitated comments extremely seriously. Kindly delete my password or anything else that currently allows me to actively participate. That will ensure that no more threads or posts of mine make your already diffiucult life much worse. Plenty of other (nice) people to make your day as it is.

regards
q.

PS.It goes without saying I have no intention of re-appearing under a different member name or anything like that.

ex-webby

Quattro

Thank you for your understanding and mature considered reasoning.

I have no idea where this animousity stems from. Feel free to email me if there is something personal you wish to discuss.

If your request to be deleted is genuine, please let me know and I will respect your wishes.

It is your decision as to whether you will post here in future.

If you do, you will be welcome, as long as the content of your posts is legal.

Best regards

Simon

RonaldoH

Sheesh.

Quattro, although you may not post on here again you will more than likely read this. Because it is an open forum people are entitled to say what they like. I am sure everyone agrees that posting on here has benefited them in one way or another or even got their backs up once or twice. Its the freedom of speech and the sharing of information that makes this board (as well as 22b.com) so informative. I am sure that you have met some of the bunch and made friends too from on here. From the people I have met and the friends I have made I can safely say that I am glad I found this site and Dr Skarstens' also. I am also glad to have read so much informative info and shared a great deal of opinions on products e.t.c. Given that the scooby market is clearly competitive and the fact that people have their own thoughts and views, you see that from making these freinds you learn who to trust with work being done on your car e.t.c. I can safely say that being part of such a community and also knowing you can get help when needed within about 3 minutes by posting gives me the re-assurance as a scooby owner that the car and myself are in good hands.3458 members on this board are more than likely to have their own opinions on things and will also share views when they feel they know about the problem. I have posted one or two things in haste, and been e-mailed off-line by a member telling me what a complete c**t they thought I was, but at the end of the day we are all going to be dead for years, so brush it aside. SDB has done a tremendous job getting the BBS back into action and his work on it along with th moderators e.t.c is second to none. I wear a scoobynet sticker in the front of my scoob, not just because I like to post on the board but also because I am proud of being in such a 'close-knit' community of great people

I think most will agree that they have got more good than bad from being members and I am sure that after a week or so, you will still be checking the board for the banter as well as the info. If not, you will have been a victim of falling into the taking it personally trap. I went to belguim having not met any of the travelling party. I have returned having made some very good friends and having learnt that the freedom of speech and the chance to organise such events on these boards opens the doors to so many other horizons. Never have I been away somewhere, not known anyone and come home thinking-damn! what a quality set of people. Nat will vouch for it, she was the one who drew a tear on the way home that wet drizzly Monday aternoon.

Keep it up all. Your a 'formula 1' bunch

RonnieH

[This message has been edited by RonaldoH (edited 05 October 2000).]

tizard99

(in reply of Pete croneys post) Right of reply, isn't that what A BBS should be all about? As long as we are all allowed the freedom to backup or put the record straight then hopefully the truth will come through.

Pete, If you're refering to me as your "potential customer" (which if I put two and two together I get your company to be SS), then you'd be right and despite what I have read on this board I personally understand you can't always believe what you read and must take it with a pinch of salt (as they say), so till I actually have personal experience of something I will not draw any conclusions and as I said previously the way you speak to a potential customer on the phone can give a good feeling about the company, or not, and in your case I got the right vibes. You can tell a lot from a phone call, first impressions and all that.


Trev.

p.s. isn't owning a scooby about having fun! so lets all stop arguing and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by tizard99 (edited 05 October 2000).]

Craig H

I didn't read the threads, but in the past there have been a few companies who have had criticism levelled at certain companies - some have responded positively, others haven't.

In my views, those that respond (assuming the criticism is justified) shouting and hollering, normally have something to hide.

There are definitely one or 2 suppliers on this board who react to criticism very badly.
And the mud slinging that has gone on between suppliers is not on. If everyone had the dignity of Pete C things would be a lot better. Maybe he can start some seminars

I would say as an internet community, it is an individuals right to post their own experiences and it is everyones right to read those views and make their own minds up.

Maybe there could be a supplier forum, where good and bad are discussed. It is a competitive market and consumers deserve a good service - there are plenty of companies able to provide this. If suppliers provide a bad service, they should be big enough to accept it. If they hide their heads in the sand and not accept it, what does it say?

We have a right to know.

malique

q.

===D

are u a gpreek. *sigh*

It is plain obvious.

m.

p.s. webM. QUICK... delete his passwd!

[This message has been edited by malique (edited 06 October 2000).]

DavidG

Quattro,

It was negative comments made about a supplier that brought down Scoobynet 1. The law on libel/defamation on the internet is developing, but a party that "publishes" defamatory statements can be liable for them. Simon's fear is that he might be seen to be the publisher. If I understand it correctly some recent cases have suggested that this applies to the internet as well. Maybe this is the case, maybe it isn't, but why the hell should he take the risk, when the consequences are so bad (big fines, big costs, jail) and he's doing it for no reward (other than a warm feeling ).

maybe you should hang out on rec.autos.subaru where anything goes.

Pete Croney

I find all of this amazing.

The originally deleted thread developed into an attack on my company from another company. That company was criticised by a disgruntled customer. The thread was then deleted.

I did not ask for the thread to be removed.

I have learnt that to be respected, in our community, you need to work very hard. Quattro works very hard. Quattro and I are good mates. Knowing him as I do, I probably understand some of his posts better than most. A background in journalism explains his colourful use of the english language, but his judgement is always sound.

Both my company and Prodrive (with whom I am also very good friends) have been libelled on this and other bulletin boards. Have we sued? Have we asked for threads to be deleted?

No. We have just re-doubled our efforts to win back lost customers.

The point quattro was making is... when we have been asked to post positive things about suppliers, and someone does (thank you Anders), does this mean that everyone not mentioned in the post is rubbish? As far as I know, praising one company (or two, in this case) cannot be grounds for a third company to considered itself libelled.

Because Anders "tongue in cheek" response was to say that these two companies are "adequate", should I consider I have been libelled? One potential customer has read this, not realising it is a joke, and questioned whether or not to trust his pride and joy with us. No, of course not.

If you post on this bulletin board, then expect to be challenged. If you criticise, expect criticism.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones!!

If you want to get legal and threaten the survival of this community everytime you are shown to have let someone down, THEN GO AWAY.

ex-webby

Pete

You know I have respect for you and your company, but (with respect) you have missed the point.

This insanely out of control thread was started by someone who didn't think I should have removed a single post which:-

1) Added nothing to the thread
2) Was removed with TOTAL amecable agreement from the person who posted it
3) Was deemed by my solicitor to be potentially libellous in the context of the thread.

It was a silly quip, a little tongue in cheek gag. Why should we get so upset?

You last 3 sentences spell out common sense, in a very simplistic manner.

Unfortunately, the law does not work like that.

NOBODY has "threatened the survival of this community" as you put it, except for the people who post things which do just that.

I totally accept that the post in question could also be considered to be a totally innocent and positive thing to say, but I was advised it was potentially libellous, I could see it would not be a detrement to the thread if it was removed, I sought the approval of the person who posted it, and then removed it.

What the hell am I supposed to do here?

Seriously, are you saying YOU would have taken the risk?

Be my guest. The offer I made to Branco is open.

Pete, I totally agree with the principles behind what you are saying "We should all stand up for ourselves and take it on the chin". I agree, and this philosophy (sp?) has not been broken here...

This thread is about the romoval of a post. Not about a particular supplier or person.

You made a point - "As far as I know, praising one company (or two, in this case) cannot be grounds for a third company to considered itself libelled."

Well as far as *I* knew, this was the case also. But it is unfortunately one of my responsibilites to know for sure, not just guess. That's why I pay additional money to solicitors, to protect this board and the community it supports.

I would like to close this thread, but I will not as I beleive strongly in everyone's right to discuss this, even if I end up being damned for it.

But I will say this...

If you are willing to say I was wrong, can you please tell me what I should have done?

And if you feel I shouldn't have removed the post, can you tell me that doing that would be worth the risk of potential (although unlikely) legal action and the closure of this board?

I only have good intentions. I really can't understand why this should have caused such an uproar from an incredibly small minority.

regards

Simon

ex-webby

PS

Can I add that NOBODY asked for the original thread or the single post to be removed.

A couple of independant people emailed me to warn me (thank you, sincerely). I then took the decision to remove it myself based onlegal advice.

Just thought I should clear that up.

Regards

Simon

harj

Ive lost count of how many people say they are leaving the Scoobynet community, sorry to see you go Branco.

If however you do decide to stay i would reccomend that you use this link with any posts or threads in the future: