RB5_245

Ok, i'm getting a new turbo, VF34 or 35??? i'm looking for spool up, rev range, and working pressures. if you want any other ifo its for a uk my99 running full de-can and HKS induction with a view to 300bhp just now but able to take 350 in the future, cheers...

Turbo_Steve

You might want to consider a TD05. A lot of people have had good results. Probably the best thing you could do would be to get in touch with Lateral Performance.

Someone might want to correct me, but 300bhp is (I believe) attainable with the TD04 you already have?

RB5_245

I hear this, but the TD04 runs out of legs a bit soon so it's the choice of the VF's

sg72

I'm getting a VF34 fitted to my STI 5 Type R. This week , along with engine and FMIC.

Will let you know how it goes.

RB5_245

Please do, think i'm going to order a 35 today though. Anyone know if it will mess up my boost pressure from stock..... i want to get re-mapped at the same time as i up to boost for safety, but i don't fancy driving around at 2000 rpm until then.

MurrayZA

Isnt the 35 the roller bearing version of the 34 or is it
vice versa. Either way, surely the roller is the better performer ?

RB5_245

As far as i know the 35 is a roller bearing version of the 30 and the 34 is a 'slightly modified' version of the 30, anyway already ordered the 35 so here goes, think it should suit my needs better, or is that hope....

MurrayZA

Be interested to know how laggy it is, especially if you could compare it to a VF23/24... Keep us posted, will ya.

Pete Croney

RB5

I assume the good doctor will be mapping this for you.

Also interested in the results

john banks

If looking towards 350 BHP get the VF34. It has a larger exhaust housing. I think the VF35 would be as pushed at 350 BHP as a TD04 is at 300 BHP.

Better still get a TD05, you know how I love these things, but they are becoming a victim of their own success and difficult to get hold of. The TD05 exhaust side is just fantastic, plus the compressor is very competent indeed.

MurrayZA

So us lot that cant get hold of a TD05 may be well of getting the VF35 - especially since I'm aiming for a max of 300bhp... Oh, and is a glowing red TD04 a bad thing ? Do other people get this too ?
I always wait for a good few minutes until the glow has subsided before turning off the ignition...

john banks

Glowing red is not unexpected. VF35 is considerably "smaller" than the TD05, but for 300BHP is fine.

MurrayZA

So many options so much cash. I'm thinking along the lines and trading my wrx for a STi 7 and then starting again - at least the V7 has the bigger injectors, stronger clutch bigger brakes, yadda yadda. JB, as always, thanks for yer input.

RB5_245

why why why couldn't you lot tell me these things BEFORE i buy them, anyway VF35 is on the way and i hope it will take AT LEAST 350 when the time comes, but for the moment i'll settle for 300. btw john, do i need fuel cut defecer and overboost chip before coming to visit you??

MurrayZA

When you're ready to part with the '35... I'll take it off your hands @ a fair price ... 8-)

Darren STI 7

if anyones interested,sorry to but in but i have an IHI VF35 for sale, just took off my sti7, done 10,000 miles, as new

email if required, live in leicester

john banks

RB5 you need to discuss with me the full spec of your engine, but in short you need a knocklink, boost gauge, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and that is it. I don't think the VF35 will get safely to 350 BHP even with a FMIC. Certainly not on Scottish rollers. I am not keen on your HKS induction because of MAF sensor damage, some incorrectly installed also give massive MAF misreads. K&N 57i would be better IMHO.

[Edited by john banks - 5/21/2003 1:53:02 PM]

RB5_245

OK, full spec of my engine as it will be in a couple of weeks. Full magnex de-cat from turbo back 3". HKS up pipe. HKS SSQV. HKS Induction (been on the rollers with it, seems to be running well). Uprated fuel pump. VF35. Knocklink and Lambdalink, boost gauge, samco turbo hoses. Not all fitted yet, couple of weeks time. I wanted to get all the parts ready before i up the boost and re-map.

on top of this i belive i need FCD and a boost controller(do i also need overboost chip for this to work). Then it can be re-mapped, am i right? (16psi, 300bhp would be ideal to me if it's possible)

Then maybe a year or so later forged pistons knife edged crank, FMIC and up the boost. Hence i think i should get a controller now, where i can have a couple of different maps?

That's the plan!

john banks

You can use a boost controller if you like, but the ECU one or a Dawes or a 3 port solenoid are all valid options for your setup.

Even the factory 2 port solenoid with some gear judge boost control could work really well. The Dawes I would say still has the edge over everything else for response except perhaps the best EBCs. The 3 port or an EBC will allow very precise control of actual boost level, but the real world benefits of control better than 1 PSI are dubious perhaps? In colder weather you might get a bit more boost with a lot of methods, or a higher overboost, but that is no terrible thing.

You don't need or want a FCD with an ECU remap.

Re the engine internals - I'm just going down that path presently, but there is no point in doing it IMHO if you are keeping the VF35, or any VF turbo. Same with big work on the crank. The weaknesses of these engines are IMHO primarily the cast pistons, and then the conrods. You could do very well to go in and just change them and come out again, although I have talked myself into doing more


[Edited by john banks - 5/21/2003 4:13:17 PM]

RB5_245

The whole idea with engine work was to reduce compression further thus avoiding det when i crank up the boost more(don't want aquamist). I have a great dislike to daws, but if it is the best way i'll take it. I may just pay for the EBC in order to have the choice of a couple of maps though.

How busy are you? do you need much notice for this coz i'm away for 4months on 6th June..... Atually i need a couple of maps coz my dad already complains the car is to fast for him! and i like to keep it running when i'm away.

john banks

I am presently booked up until the end of June I am afraid, but if you were able to consider a weekday evening I might be able to do something before then. However, because a lot (about half to two thirds!) of people kept cancelling because mods were not fitted by the (wildly optimistic) date they'd booked I am now only taking bookings once the bits are fitted. Even what appears to be a simple mechanical job can have complications and issues to be ironed out, and these need to be done before mapping can even be contemplated.

I would strongly suggest against lowering the compression, in fact I am raising mine to 8.7:1.

We can map it det free on pump fuel for 300 BHP without any concerns over getting into slippery slopes at all.

Happy to discuss the pros and cons of various boost control systems, suggest don't write anything off as they all have merits.

RB5_245

cheers mate, got to wait for my hks bit before i get it on so i reckon I can give about a week's notice. As for boost control all i want is a choice of 2maps, and good quality. I'll still be on the net when i'm away so if it's not possible before i go it will be easy to arrange it afterwards. Cheers Dave.

Turbo_Steve

John,
Would be interested to hear your "pros / cons" list for each boost control method? The only cons I can see for the MBC method are lack of precision (cold weather etc) as it isn't a closed loop system, and the "reduced driveability" caused by the "all the boost all the time" approach an MBC has. Oh, and possibly the potential for gearbox damage if you managed to make full boost in 1st gear

What are the advantages of EBC over ECU boost control? (Esp if ECU is mapped with 3 port solenoid?)

wide open for flame-age.

Steve

MurrayZA

APEXI AVC-R sets boost per rpm map per gear. That solves one problem. All the boost all the time (not that thats true) should increase driveability as you have a wider range of full boost and your right foot can control just how much you want. Lastly, full boost in first would be some achievement, but I doubt you'll get it...

john banks

The MBC is closed loop and the variance between different conditions is no real issue in use. The part throttle issue is solved by using the right amount of bleed.

With the MY99/00 ECU you can make it produce more boost in 1st gear than 5th gear if you want to.

EBC allows easier user adjustment and self learning capabilities. The closed loop control logic is superior to most ECUs.

Turbo_Steve

Ok...feeling really dumb now....if the MBC is closed loop (i.e. it reacts completely to the amount of boost being produced) then what is OPEN loop? Purely RPM based?

=extremely confused now= And I thought I understood this?

"All of the boost all of the time"....an MBC has a single boost target. If it's less, the wastegate is closed, if it's not, the wastegate is open. Yes, I knows that around the boost target is an area where this isn't true, but I am being simplistic to stop my brain overheating: Surely if you only have one boost target (maximum) then you are always trying to make that much boost at WOT?

John, do you mean that a standard map on a later ECU will let you make more boost in 1st than 4th, or that re-mapping it will let you do that?

Sorry for being dense, guys, but I am having some trouble getting my brain around all this.

john banks

Open loop from the boost controller's point of view is a fixed restrictor valve or a solenoid which runs a duty cycle by RPM. The Dawes is closed loop because it is an "active" pneumatic part which will reach an equilibrium that is similar in quite different conditions - ie less difference in boost between 2nd and 5th gear than true open loop methods. However, the wastegate itself with pneumatic feedback by any method is effectively closed loop - the wastegate door sits partly open at equilirium with a balance of exhaust gas back pressure, actuator tension and pressure on the actuator diapragm. By using a bleed valve you only allow the Dawes part of the control bandwidth - the bleed valve adds to smoothness, but you lose a bit of response. This is usually a compromise in all closed loop control systems between response and damping.

By remapping the UK 99/00 ECU with a few Ecutek tricks you can get the ECU to adjust maximum duty cycle (which controls the ability to reach or overshoot boost target) by acceleration. With massive acceleration in 1st gear the duty cycle can be massively higher than needed in 5th gear. This allows you to get at least the same boost in 1st gear as 5th, although in practice if you go too far then 2nd gear is quite wildly overboosting. But I have had my car fuel cutting in 2nd gear and not in 5th I also eat gearboxes so don't listen to a word I say

Turbo_Steve

John Banks says don't listen to him everyone!
(Is this a MyCroft moment?)

John, thank you for explaining it...much clearer now.
Apologies for the first post: I really shouldn't drink & post.

Just out of interest, does the ECU know the currently selected gear from a switch, or does it judge it from the RPM rise?

MurrayZA

I believe its calculated on RPM+SPEED

e.g.

1000rpm in 1st = 10mph
7000prm in 1st = 35mph
1000rpm in 2nd = 25mph
7000rpm in 2nd = 60mph

john banks

The 99/00 Ecutek hack is based on duty cycle temperature compensation. Since the UK doesn't have a temperature probe, you can make the "temperature" equal "acceleration" if you are clever like Stephen Done is. Hey presto, gear comp He tried it for an evening and fried his clutch on his TD04 poor guy. My clutch must be made of better things since I have been using it for a few months I estimate I put 350 lbft through 1st gear