cliff_vtr

Hi,

I am looking at buying an Impreza turbo MK1, when i say MK1 I am talking about 1994-2000. First of can someone explain the difference between the various turbo models, i am confused between WRX STI etc, engine wise, interior suspension etc.

Also what apart from the usual stuff should i look for when buying one and what do I walk away from !!!?.

What is the best turbo model to go for ??, which is better hatch or saloon, which year ?

I drive a saxo at the moment and there isn't enough room and its too slow. I was thinking of supercharging it but it seems a far better option to sell and get scooby. But I am a novice as far as information goes so I am hoping you guys here can give me some help

Sorry if this has been asked 1000 times before.

Cheers

CLiff

Brun

SIDC FAQ should be a good start.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ok the warning bit first
These cars are not cheap to run, they NEED 2 services a year (6month or 7.5k whichever first) of which normally one will be over 300 quid (the other will be around 100 quid).
18mpg in town in normal, 25mpg is about average, can be lower to around 22mpg though (mixed/motorway driving).
Insurance is a killer, dont even think about looking for an Impreza if you havnt had any insurance quotes, young drivers will be hammered (quotes can be as silly as 5k) and alot of insurance co's want a tracking system and cat1 alarm fitted before you are covered.
Its also a high risk theft vehicle so if you take tablets to sleep dont buy one either as you will go grey quicker with the worry.
Ok, that bits out of the way now
Ok, 2 different categories really for scoobs, UK and JDM (japanese domestic market or grey imports to the rest of us )
A jdm car will cost more to insure and are now even harder to get insurance for as only a few speciallist companies seem to be doing insurance for them now Subaru UK will NOT touch these cars, you can just forget about parts from them, the good news is that there are many speciallists who deal in spares/servicing etc.
JDM cars need a MINIMUM of 97ron fuel (Super unleaded) and octane booster is a real reccommendation as they are mapped for 100ron fuel, cheap 95 ron fuel WILL kill the engine (look at over 4k for a rebuild there!)
UK spec cars dont have as many goodies on them as the JDM cars but you do have a dealer network (which is nice depending where you live) but both types of cars will cost around the same price to maintain and run (excluding insurance and fuel bills etc).
The SIDC link probably told you quite abit, but if you cannot afford to run one of these cars, dont buy one, some cheap ones out there but they still cost the same as a new one to maintain, if not a little more as some of the services are over 500 quid so be warned!

Tony

dnb

As said the insurance is the first killer cost. I couldn't insure an import STI at all, and a WRX was 50% more than my UK car. After that there's fuel and mods. It took 6 months before I wanted my car faster etc...

You WILL drive it more than you think. You may even find yourself taking the long way to places

As for servicing - I do most myself - they aren't difficult cars to do anything to and if you get spares from the right sources, you can get genuine OEM fit bits at sensible prices.

For a bit of background I have replaced the front dampers, upgraded the brakes to 4 pot calipers and replaced the clutch on my car this year (70k miles approx) along with the usual service items - oil changes every 3.5k to 4k miles etc. Touch wood it has been reliable. (And cost me in the region of £500 for all of the above, so it's not that bad...)

If the car is getting on a bit (more than 5 years) then it makes more sense to me to DIY service it if you can, and only use the dealers if you're really stuck. There's enough knowledge (and knowledgable people) on Scoobynet to get you through most things.

I should add that I think it's worth every penny. (Although I did doubt it for a day or two when my credit card bill came with the dampers and the clutch on it... )

LG John

I'll echo the above! Having come from a VTS to a UK scooby the running costs of the scooby are way higher On days like today (snow) its well worth it though

cliff_vtr

well thanks for all the info!!!!, providing these cars are not NASA engineered then I would do all the basic servicing myself like oil, air filter, fuel filter, brakes, plugs, coolant etc etc. At the moment I do the majority of my own servicing, leaving just the big jobs to the pros.

I would be looking at a UK spec one as I hear Subaru dealers are good unlike citroen, which are a bunch of monkeys.

As for insurance I am nearly 25 if that helps and if/when i get a scooby turbo i will have 2yrs NCB.


So what about the various models ?, i looked on the subaru site but its all for the MK2 and i hear the have changed the STi status and WRX status which is where I got abit confused. I have also seen lots of different figures regarding performance.

thanks again

oh and I haven't got the VTS I got the slower VTR which is only a 90bhp unit, but she handles well

cheers

Cliff

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I take it you have never worked on a flat 4 before then?
If you want to retain any sort of value on one of these cars then FSSH is the way to go (or speciallist, unless you have worked on these engines before that is).
You can actually blow these engines up quite easily if you mess up (just look at the ammount of engines that have gone bang soon after servicing) so i would keep to dealers rather than attempt and be left with a large bill for a new engine or rebuild (around 4k for a rebuild).
As for models, the SIDC FAQ has all the editions including limited models, power output etc so your info will be there

Tony

dnb

You'll get a shock the first time you try the plugs

They aren't NASA engineered, and they are fragile to a point. It may be worth while getting a couple of services done by a specialist, and observing the (hopefully) good practice of a professional. (such as filling the oil filter before fitting etc...)

I've had my UK for a year, and it's not seen a main dealer for a good while, and only been to a specialist for majors like the clutch and soon the cambelt. (My local specialist lets me watch and is glad of a hand for the heavy lifting Scoob gearboxes are quite heavy!)

For the record he couldn't find anything wrong with the engine etc, but did warn me about a leaky damper. So I can't have done everything wrong... He was also quite interested in the DIY select monitor I'm working on, and the DIY ECU remap that a few other people are doing.

I suppose it depends on how long you'll keep the car. At the moment I'm in for the long term, as I'm a firm believer in "the car you own is the cheapest" and as soon as you mod the car, you reduce the value, regardless of the service history. Just my opinion of course.

I'm in the nearly 25 camp as well. Last year my insurance was £1003 (fully comp with 3yrs NCB) on a standard UK car.

There was an exterior facelift in 96/97 (mine just made it) and an interior improvement - bucket seats as standard. There were some engine changes as well, but I don't remember the details. It should be in the SIDC FAQ anyway...

the WRX name was adopted in England when the bugeyes (new shape) were introduced (instead of "Impreza Turbo"). They are group 19 (I think) for insurance.

Anything that's a classic shape and a WRX will be an "import"

LG John

I can tell that by your name, but VTR/S servicing costs are similar hence the comparison. The small scooby services are about £130 and you could probably do these yourself. The larger ones are the killer at about £500. You'll need one of these a year and it'll either be the timing belt or the fluids (diffs, gearbox, etc).

If your vtr is fairly standard then a standard UK will seem a lot faster! Then you'll get used to it and spend lots modifying it

cliff_vtr

thanks just been on a few sites and from what i make out UK MK1 is turbo 2000 with 208bhp/215bhp whereas WRX/STi etc are the Jap versions with more power, better suspension, and more goodies. From what i found the only one close to the MK1 WRX is the Prodrive P1.

So how exactly could i damage the engine by changing the oil or replacing the plugs. Anyway I am would want to learn, using books asking others etc.

As for insurance i am paying over 700 on my saxo currently 1yr NCB 1 previous 50/50 accident and my car is gr7. But soon to be 25 and will have 2yrs NCB

Also which year MK1 is best to go for as i noticed they did lots of tweeks throughout its life.

cheers

Cliff

LG John

Fooking hell!!! That is A LOT for a VTR You should consider a new VTR or S as a one year stop gap so you can get Citroen's Free Insurance. This was my first insurance in my own name and was free in the first year (obviously). The second year I was given a full no claims and my renewal was £600 for a VTS with protected no claims (aged 23). I've now got the scooby with about 275bhp and this years renewal was £1180

I'd get an insurance quote before you go any further as it could be a real crippler

danny-boy

If you go UK, try and get a MY99 or MY00. As earlier models suffered from piston slap.

Plus they got nicer looking head lights/fog lights, and nicer interior.

On reflection on purchasing my Scooby i wish I'd got it inspected by someone with better Jap Car knowledge.

As said before, you'll probably need a tracker, that will set you back 600 notes straight away, and then there's the membership for tracker. The bill go on etc.

I worked out the Total Cost of ownership, and it works out about £700 a months, that inc fuel, servicing, tax, petrol etc)

So its a very expensive hobby! But boys it damn fun

Thanks

Dan

Andy.F

If you give the guys a hint of how much you intend spending it will be easier for them to recommend something specific.
I bought my scoob before I knew much about them, more through luck than judgement I got a fairly rare model (type RA)

What sort of driving do you do ? If you do high mileage and lots of daily commuting, you may be suited to a different model than if it's for polishing, posing and weekend thrashes

cliff_vtr

yeah 700 is a lot but its the cheapest i could find, all i have done to it is lowered it and modified the front end a little but apart from that its pretty much standard.

so you reckon 700 a month upkeep ??!?!, well minus fuel and mods, my saxo gets through about 50quid, 700 seems rather a lot to me.

yeah I think the UK spec will be fast enough for, well at least for a few months. It doesn't really seem how fast you make it, you always want more. My mate just bought himself a 340bhp Supra and it goes like a scud missile but now he's had it 6months he's on about uprating the power, mad !!!!.

I think for me a UK spec one would be better, as its gonna be loads faster than the saxo and my girlfriend won't moan that there is no space.

how modifyable are the UK spec scoobs ??

cheers

Cliff

cliff_vtr

well i would be doing about 15k a year, sorta mix, it would be a mode of transport as well a something to wax weekends, a kinda middle ground i suppose.

my girlfriend wants a bigger car, i want something faster and I have had a lot of problems this year with the saxo. The scooby has the space the speed and the right image. Its just a case of whether i can afford to run it etc. I would be looking to spend 6-7k ish

CLiff

danny-boy

Modding wise,

The Uk model pre MY98 is 208Bhp
MY98 - MY00 is 215bhp

Tuning is pretty easy, standard stuff, like improve air flow and then get rid of the cats (of which there are two) get a de catted downpipe and mid section de cat pipe and a good backbox, should get you a 220 +. My advice is speak to some people in the know i.e. TSL that way you get an idea of cost as well.

My 700 a month included my monthly payment, you may be minted an be able to afford it out right.

Fuel wise if you get a UK car you can use Sainsbury's SUL or BP SUL or Optimax, my car prefers Sainsbury's SUL runs smoother, my pocket prefers Sainsburys too.

Its cost approx £38 (77.9) to fill up and I get approx 240/250 miles out of a tank. My driving is a mix of dual carriageway, lots of traffic, and round town.

Look on a year basis

Servicing £700
Tax £160
Fuel approx £2000 (based on £180 per month)
Tracker monitor £120
Insurance £1000+ if your lucky
Finance £300 (thats mines I dont know how your gonna finance your purchase)

So it all adds up.

I'm not trying to put you off, just trying to give you an educated view

Thanks

Dan

cliff_vtr

ahhh ok i see now i never included tax, insurance or the loan as i already pay that.

so here goes:

loan = 250max
insurance = 80
tax = 15
fuel = 150
servicing = 50

= 550 ish

but thats not including the tracker etc

yeah 95RON sounds more appealing to me, optimax is sooooo expensive

Cliff

danny-boy

Not 95 RON matey, you'll blow your engine up,

SUL = Super Unleaded i.e. 97 RON

cliff_vtr

really ??? even the UK spec requires 97RON ??

CLiff

danny-boy

Yup, says it on the fuel cap too.

LG John

Your really should try to run scoobys on SUL/Optimax - even standard UK's! They get more miles from these fuels than 95RON offsetting some of the extra cost.

I'll not bore you with lots of figures but in terms of fuel, servicing and consumables my MY99 scooby cost more to run for 8000 miles than my VTS did for 31000 miles I get 70 miles less from the tank but get £10 more fuel in! I've had one £400 service, one £130 service and I've had replacment front (£130) and rear pads. Its a shame space is an issue otherwise I'd suggest an upgrade to the VTS which would be almost as cheap as the VTR to run but way faster!

I don't know you or your financial circumstances but I'm seeing trends in your post that I recognise from when I was scooby searching. I remember everyone saying it would be night and day more expensive to keep on the road compared to the VTS but I could never really believe it...they were right. As I type my car is tucked up in its car port 30 miles away as I car share now to save fuel. I've had to make a lot of other sacrifices in order to keep the scooby but I would say its worth it .....just

Just making sure you know what your taking on! Re: image! You'd be suprised the amount of peeps that hate the Impreza. I get a lot of nasty looks cause of the decat (loud) zorst. My vts largely went un-noticed

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

95 ron wont kill a uk turbo's engine but it will not be the smoothest or give you the best performance where as SUL/optimax will give you better MPG and more performance (smoother and more bhp ).
Now i hope you have a nice bank manager as if your paying 700 quid just now then your going to be paying around 3 times that for a scoob (if not more) so work it out that your going to do an average 25mpg, 15k per year at 77ppl....
Sould equal around.... (on an average of 300miles per tank ) 2310 quid per year on fuel (it works out the same for Unleaded as you loose MPG)
2310+
2000
700 (services)
400 (tyres)
3000 (repayments)
160 (road tax)
=
8570.
Now this is a worse case scenario but look at having this available and you will be able to run the car without problems
And the answer to your question about how easy it is to blow your engine up whilst servicing..... very easy if you have never worked on one of these engines before and for the price of just over 50 odd quid (if you take your own oil) i think its safer to say that 1hr for a service isnt much to do rather than 4k for an engine

Tony

danny-boy

Saxo Boy - Agreed.

I think we were all in the same boat really. I had a Seat Ibiza Cupra 1.8T before my scooby. Everyone said oooh its so expensive and it is to be fair but I use to get 200 miles out of a tank of SUL that use to cost £32 to fill up. My Scooby costs £38 for 250 miles I'd say about the same mpg.

You do get dirty looks and people say, look at your stupid rear spoiler and dust bin sized exhaust BUT its feels really good when you see a Scooby on coming and you get a flash or a wave.

Plus whooping everyones but is very amusing my currect whipping boy is a Focus RS who works up the road, always make the journey home more amusing.

My advice bottom line is, if you want one, buy one and sod the expense, the way I see it, you only live once

LG John

Surely not Co55ie told us all that we'd only ever see the rear of these car D

Got to agree, I've thrown caution into the wind and will go a fair bit into debt before I give up the scooby! They'll have to pry the keys from my cold, dead hands!!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Right,
my best bit of advice is, if you cannot afford the running cost of this car then dont buy it, if you want to be able to go on holiday, go out for drinks, go to restaurants etc but you cant any longer and the car sits on the drive/road or in the garage due to lack of funds then it takes the pleasure of ownership away
Being a posh northern git i have 2 cars but the mondeo is considerably less expensive to run than the scoob (ie i can actually go to work and back on 1 tank of fuel something i cannot do in the scoob, stopping twice possably )
A new tyre for the mondeo cost an astounding 35 quid, a new tyre (as the price i purchased the last set for) would set me back nearly 4 times that at 120 quid.
My uprated brakes on the scoob are going to set me back 600+ quid, probably about 150 for the mondeo, so there is alot of difference
You buy the car and you pay the price but i wouldnt have bought the car if i couldnt have afforded to run her (ie i paid the car off in 2yrs, owing 18k from new).

Tony

cliff_vtr

cheers these points have been taken on board, I will have to do the sums in more depth when the time comes. At the moment I am just doing some homework.

Yes the idea of whopping peoples ***** on the road is very appealing as the other day this WRX really was toying with me by overtaking me then slowing down then booting it again. I so wished i had the S/C in the saxo at the time to wipe the smile from his smug face. No dis-respect to WRX owners or anything.

Oh and I love the big tail fins, though my girlfriend thinks they are silly, but thats not gonna put me off.

I am hoping for a new job soon and hopefully a few more squids so I may be able to afford a scooby.

cheers

Cliff

Nick200

Sod the sums go and buy one....now

I have a uk not that expensive to mod really, plenty of stuff on this forum to spend a few quid on.
The lads (girls) are quite helpfull so you wont be on your own.

My97 running 267bhp, soon to have turbo,intercooler and internal upgrade(when the missus says so.)

danny-boy

Just noticed your in Poole, where do you live, I'm in Parkstone.

dnb

A couple of other people who aren't too far from me

(If you don't mind a bit of a swim...)

LG John

Unless you did more mods than just the supercharger you'd only be able to keep up. Rob T's saxo does 0-100 in 15.1 seconds which will see off a standard WRX.....just

I have a lot of respect for the supercharged VT* but I do question their long term reliability. Best to start with a forced induction engine from the ground up. Also, have you noticed that very few of the s/c saxo's have proven themselves so far. I've heard lots of high bhp figures flying around but not many 1/4 mile times