pro-drive ecu - first impressions....
21 October 2002, 08:16 PM
#1
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not impressed at all - i prefered my old 801 - while the pro-drive ecu seems more torquey between 4-6000rpm and cut out is higher (around 7,500 rpm rather than 7,100)it is crap for day to day driving, which is what i have to do 90% of the time, it hickup's, has dull spots and i'm generally more concerned about the car tickover and sound of it... 
basically i reckon it aint worth the extra at all :/
P.S. this is after 5 days driving, car setup:
MY99
Optimax fuel
full decat
ITG Air Filter
VTA DV
Quickshift
(Dawes removed)
basically i reckon it aint worth the extra at all :/
P.S. this is after 5 days driving, car setup:
MY99
Optimax fuel
full decat
ITG Air Filter
VTA DV
Quickshift
(Dawes removed)
21 October 2002, 08:51 PM
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There is something wrong with your car then. The PPP ECU is smooth and trouble free. Very unlikely that the ECU is faulty. Have you 1. reset the ECU and 2. tried the original DV? If you removed the Dawes and are comparing AE801 + Dawes with PPP then yes, you will find it disappointing at the top end.
[Edited by john banks - 10/21/2002 8:51:53 PM]
[Edited by john banks - 10/21/2002 8:51:53 PM]
21 October 2002, 10:11 PM
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hi john,
well i was on a 801ecu (DD recorded it as being an 802
), and yup b4 i had a dawes and 801 - i did have the dawes on it for a day when the PEcu was installed, - i'll take the ECU out tonite (good security 
) should be nicely reset by the morn, and see what its like on the drive in to work (this was when it felt the most pants to be honest)..
cheers
simon.
well i was on a 801ecu (DD recorded it as being an 802
), and yup b4 i had a dawes and 801 - i did have the dawes on it for a day when the PEcu was installed, - i'll take the ECU out tonite (good security ) should be nicely reset by the morn, and see what its like on the drive in to work (this was when it felt the most pants to be honest)..cheers
simon.
21 October 2002, 10:39 PM
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managed to disconnect the ecu (i forgot i left the car in the street so it musta looked well dodgy 
) - lets see what the morning brings 
) - lets see what the morning brings
21 October 2002, 10:40 PM
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john, onething i forgot to ask, was that i don't have the £300 piece of pipe that you get with the prodrive pack - would that make a difference? ?
21 October 2002, 11:20 PM
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Not really IMHO.
Can't explain why but some ECUs do drive a bit dodgy now and again even when they have been out of a car and a proper Delta Dash reset makes them go well. The underdash reset trick also does the job. (green connectors position 2 throttle down drive on cruise until CEL turn off disconnect green restart - see MRT site if this means nothing to you).
Can't explain why but some ECUs do drive a bit dodgy now and again even when they have been out of a car and a proper Delta Dash reset makes them go well. The underdash reset trick also does the job. (green connectors position 2 throttle down drive on cruise until CEL turn off disconnect green restart - see MRT site if this means nothing to you).
22 October 2002, 12:27 PM
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well i plugged the ecu back in and drove into work - things seem better than yesterday morning...
i'm wondering weather this is pschological rather than an actual issue? it still seems hesitant or maybe different at 2,500-3,000 rpm when lightly accelerating... :/ (maybe this is something more to do with my driving style - i.e. the difference between turbo spool up on different ecu's?
I think i'll have to get babber to try it...
cheers
simon.
i'm wondering weather this is pschological rather than an actual issue? it still seems hesitant or maybe different at 2,500-3,000 rpm when lightly accelerating... :/ (maybe this is something more to do with my driving style - i.e. the difference between turbo spool up on different ecu's?
I think i'll have to get babber to try it...
cheers
simon.
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22 October 2002, 12:58 PM
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my PPP ecu equiped MY99 does the same.
IMHO its not the ecu - but something else that i have never gotten to the bottom of...
is fine when car v hot - or perhaps i am enjoying myself too much by then...
IMHO its not the ecu - but something else that i have never gotten to the bottom of...
is fine when car v hot - or perhaps i am enjoying myself too much by then...
22 October 2002, 01:38 PM
#9
I've tried dawes with decat and then PPP ECU with decat (no DD). I prefered the PPP ECU as it gave more performance and in a smoother delivery.
I can't say that I had any running problems.
BTW I tried VTA but it was awful, Evilbevel was right all along...
F
I can't say that I had any running problems.
BTW I tried VTA but it was awful, Evilbevel was right all along...
F
22 October 2002, 11:06 PM
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Snowcrash,
Did you fit the brass restrictor that comes with the PPP kit (different size than the std one) in the wastegate pipework.
My MY00 had a 1.05mm restrictor a P1 has a 0.9mm which is the size I think they used for the PPP kit, but not sure.
But I am reliabaly informed it is changed from std.
Cheers MTR
Did you fit the brass restrictor that comes with the PPP kit (different size than the std one) in the wastegate pipework.
My MY00 had a 1.05mm restrictor a P1 has a 0.9mm which is the size I think they used for the PPP kit, but not sure.
But I am reliabaly informed it is changed from std.
Cheers MTR
23 October 2002, 09:27 AM
#12
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Out of interest, which ECU is reported as to being the best from the MY99 series?
The AE800 / AE801 / AE802 ?
I have a black label AE800, which I remember as to giving a real kick in the back compared to the ECU out of a MY00..... but its irrelevent now as I have my PPP ECU (which as it goes, wasn't as amazing as I'd hoped - but IS nice in the high rev range)
The AE800 / AE801 / AE802 ?
I have a black label AE800, which I remember as to giving a real kick in the back compared to the ECU out of a MY00..... but its irrelevent now as I have my PPP ECU (which as it goes, wasn't as amazing as I'd hoped - but IS nice in the high rev range)
23 October 2002, 10:47 AM
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mtr - is the brass restrictor a little brass T Piece (1 cm long?) as it's definately not on my car (i've only got the Prodrive ECU temporary to test so it will be going soon anyway).
burr - from what people have told me, the 801 is the best, 802 is dodgy, 800 i haven't heard mentioned.
cheers
simon.
burr - from what people have told me, the 801 is the best, 802 is dodgy, 800 i haven't heard mentioned.
cheers
simon.
23 October 2002, 11:32 AM
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PPP has got a different Brass restrictor. If you replace this as you should when installing a PPP, it needs to be 2 inches from the wastegate to work. You can by these from a dealer, or myself!
23 October 2002, 12:33 PM
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Snowcrash,
No it isn't a T piece, but a small brass fitting inside the soft rubber pipe coming off the wastegate.
If you squeeze the pipe with your fingers you should be able to feel it inside.
To remove it, you squeeze and push with your fingers, and work it along the pipe.
The smaller the bore size, the higher the boost level on the post 97 cars.
Think it is the reverse on the older cars.
Cheers MTR
No it isn't a T piece, but a small brass fitting inside the soft rubber pipe coming off the wastegate.
If you squeeze the pipe with your fingers you should be able to feel it inside.
To remove it, you squeeze and push with your fingers, and work it along the pipe.
The smaller the bore size, the higher the boost level on the post 97 cars.
Think it is the reverse on the older cars.
Cheers MTR
23 October 2002, 12:52 PM
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All MY99/00 PPP or not should have a 1.2mm restrictor unless it has been altered to sort out overboost. The increased boost target and maximum duty cycle maps in the ECU give you the extra boost required.
A different restrictor is fitted on the >=MY01 PPP as the ECU is not remapped like the earlier ones.
The MY99/00 PPP has a 15.7 PSI midrange boost target which ideally should be hit in 3rd-5th gears when the car is nicely warmed up.
Might be better to check what boost you are running before altering potentially perfectly good restrictors.
A standard ECU with a 0.9mm retrictor would probably breach 25 PSI unless there is something funny with your wastegate MTR.
[Edited by john banks - 10/23/2002 12:56:41 PM]
A different restrictor is fitted on the >=MY01 PPP as the ECU is not remapped like the earlier ones.
The MY99/00 PPP has a 15.7 PSI midrange boost target which ideally should be hit in 3rd-5th gears when the car is nicely warmed up.
Might be better to check what boost you are running before altering potentially perfectly good restrictors.
A standard ECU with a 0.9mm retrictor would probably breach 25 PSI unless there is something funny with your wastegate MTR.
[Edited by john banks - 10/23/2002 12:56:41 PM]
23 October 2002, 07:37 PM
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John Banks,
I said a P1 has a 0.9mm restrictor, not my MY00.
My MY00 (I now own an STi7) had a 1.05mm restrictor. The MY00 was bought by me brand new, and I measured the restrictor myself.
I manufactured a new one at 0.9mm dia bore to try it out, and on the select monitor it peaked at 17.1psi, but generally ran badly. Lots of surging etc so I tried increasing the size to 0.95mm then 1mm and eventually reverted back to the std one at 1.05mm.
Given the fuel cut on my MY00 ecu was supposed to be 17.4psi, )or less)I don't suppose it would have been able to reach 25psi.
The manufactures claimed maximum boost figures according to my local Subaru dealers chief mechanic are
Pre 1997 14.5 psi with 1.5mm restrictor,
1997 on 13.1 psi (mine peaked at 13.8psi with a 1.05mm restrictor)
2000 P1 15.95 psi with 0.9mm restrictor
Fuel cut at 17.4psi, but can't remeber if that figure was for the P1 or all cars.
I am not 100% but I thought that they changed the restrictor on the PPP'd MY99/00 cars, but will ask the mechanic next time I speak to him, if he used to have to swap them.
Perhaps they swap them if required to fine tune the boost levels?
The boost target you mention of 15.7psi for the PPP'd MY99/00 cars is very close to the 15.95psi figure for the P1 with a 0.9mm restrictor.
Perhaps my memory is correct, but I wouldn't want to gamble on it
Out of interest I know they do change it for the STi7 PPP.
Cheers MTR
[Edited by MTR - 10/23/2002 7:48:53 PM]
I said a P1 has a 0.9mm restrictor, not my MY00.
My MY00 (I now own an STi7) had a 1.05mm restrictor. The MY00 was bought by me brand new, and I measured the restrictor myself.
I manufactured a new one at 0.9mm dia bore to try it out, and on the select monitor it peaked at 17.1psi, but generally ran badly. Lots of surging etc so I tried increasing the size to 0.95mm then 1mm and eventually reverted back to the std one at 1.05mm.
Given the fuel cut on my MY00 ecu was supposed to be 17.4psi, )or less)I don't suppose it would have been able to reach 25psi.
The manufactures claimed maximum boost figures according to my local Subaru dealers chief mechanic are
Pre 1997 14.5 psi with 1.5mm restrictor,
1997 on 13.1 psi (mine peaked at 13.8psi with a 1.05mm restrictor)
2000 P1 15.95 psi with 0.9mm restrictor
Fuel cut at 17.4psi, but can't remeber if that figure was for the P1 or all cars.
I am not 100% but I thought that they changed the restrictor on the PPP'd MY99/00 cars, but will ask the mechanic next time I speak to him, if he used to have to swap them.
Perhaps they swap them if required to fine tune the boost levels?
The boost target you mention of 15.7psi for the PPP'd MY99/00 cars is very close to the 15.95psi figure for the P1 with a 0.9mm restrictor.
Perhaps my memory is correct, but I wouldn't want to gamble on it
Out of interest I know they do change it for the STi7 PPP.
Cheers MTR
[Edited by MTR - 10/23/2002 7:48:53 PM]
24 October 2002, 02:01 PM
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hmm - i've just found out it aint a prodrive ecu - opps' 
and it's possible that im driving slowly in the turbo lag area (there area is in a different point on the 801 ecu ...)..
i'll just shut my face now... sorry prodrive peeps.
[Edited by snowcrash - 10/24/2002 2:05:20 PM]
and it's possible that im driving slowly in the turbo lag area (there area is in a different point on the 801 ecu ...)..
i'll just shut my face now... sorry prodrive peeps.
[Edited by snowcrash - 10/24/2002 2:05:20 PM]
24 October 2002, 03:31 PM
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Every MY99/00 restrictor I have looked at has accepted a 1.2mm drill bit neatly, but not a 1.25mm. The same Subaru part number (they call it an orifice) is used on all the MY99/00 UK/Euro cars.
The fuel cut on MY99/00 is 17.6 PSI, on P1 is 19.6 PSI but the boost has to be sustained for a few seconds over these figures, so big boost is possible for a short time even with a working MAP sensor and perfectly functioning ECU.
Boost target on P1 is 15.7 PSI midrange too, but lower maximum duty cycle numbers are used compared with AE801 PPP because of the different restrictor sizes. The tension in the wastegate is similar with a cracking pressure of about 8 PSI.
On my MY00 decat PPP a 1.1mm restrictor saw 20 PSI quite easily - then the boost oscillated from 12 to 20 PSI as the boost control could not cope.
[Edited by john banks - 10/24/2002 3:32:37 PM]
The fuel cut on MY99/00 is 17.6 PSI, on P1 is 19.6 PSI but the boost has to be sustained for a few seconds over these figures, so big boost is possible for a short time even with a working MAP sensor and perfectly functioning ECU.
Boost target on P1 is 15.7 PSI midrange too, but lower maximum duty cycle numbers are used compared with AE801 PPP because of the different restrictor sizes. The tension in the wastegate is similar with a cracking pressure of about 8 PSI.
On my MY00 decat PPP a 1.1mm restrictor saw 20 PSI quite easily - then the boost oscillated from 12 to 20 PSI as the boost control could not cope.
[Edited by john banks - 10/24/2002 3:32:37 PM]
24 October 2002, 05:44 PM
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lmao - i assumed it was a PPP it's not (as i was meant to have a PPP ecu while i was waiting for my new one) - ahem, i'll leave it at that - it aint std either 
BB - i think i better start drinking thorn now, as im already obviously fcuked...
[Edited by snowcrash - 10/24/2002 5:47:02 PM]
BB - i think i better start drinking thorn now, as im already obviously fcuked...
[Edited by snowcrash - 10/24/2002 5:47:02 PM]
24 October 2002, 06:27 PM
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Si,
My fault mate, although I did talk to you about this at the time, but you weren't listening
you assumed you'd borrowed the team PPP ECU As mentioned before the PPP ECU do deliever power smoothly. Far to smoothly
John,
I sent you his log last week mate
Right then with the same map as yours, I did notice on light load around the 2500 rpm mark that there was a slight delay in acceleration, as you described on the phone. Looking at my defis the boost takes a while to rise. Turbo lag anyone ??
When I did this from 2000 rpm it wasn't that noticable. When I did it from 3000 rpm, the car instantly accelerated like an express train
I will have a drive in it if you like ?
Cheers Phill C
PS Now you got Pro-drive biting
PPS Si, your cars been mapped to run on thorn, lol
[Edited by babber - 10/24/2002 6:32:17 PM]
My fault mate, although I did talk to you about this at the time, but you weren't listening
you assumed you'd borrowed the team PPP ECU As mentioned before the PPP ECU do deliever power smoothly. Far to smoothly John,
I sent you his log last week mate
Right then with the same map as yours, I did notice on light load around the 2500 rpm mark that there was a slight delay in acceleration, as you described on the phone. Looking at my defis the boost takes a while to rise. Turbo lag anyone ??
When I did this from 2000 rpm it wasn't that noticable. When I did it from 3000 rpm, the car instantly accelerated like an express train
I will have a drive in it if you like ?
Cheers Phill C
PS Now you got Pro-drive biting
PPS Si, your cars been mapped to run on thorn, lol
[Edited by babber - 10/24/2002 6:32:17 PM]
25 October 2002, 08:17 AM
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i've got a tek2.5 m8...
i filled up this morning on the way into work and took a slightly longer route in, to try to replicate this issue..
and i couldn't get it to do it now... arg.
i assume the ecu reset i did on monday night cured it
so im thinking, when phil put the tek in i still had dawes installed (during this period the ecu took settings based on having the dawes installed?), then i took dawes off and left the car on the drive all weekend (as i thought it was a crappy ppp ecu - so i didnt bother testing it).
I then drive in on Monday - notice this weirdness at low rpm's
Do an ecu reset on Monday night.
Tue/Wed/Thursday(Talk bollox on scoobynet)
Blat it again Friday morning with full tank of $hell Optimax and i haven't been able to replicate the problem (altho i've been trying... ?) so i dunno if thats the cure of it, will have to give it a further day or too of blating...
P.S. its definatly quicker now, i have to brake earlier for corners etc (As i'm approaching them faster). And it goes like a train above 3,000rpm (just i never bothered really trying until this morning as i thought it was the PPP ecu - doh!)
i filled up this morning on the way into work and took a slightly longer route in, to try to replicate this issue..
and i couldn't get it to do it now... arg.
i assume the ecu reset i did on monday night cured it
so im thinking, when phil put the tek in i still had dawes installed (during this period the ecu took settings based on having the dawes installed?), then i took dawes off and left the car on the drive all weekend (as i thought it was a crappy ppp ecu - so i didnt bother testing it).
I then drive in on Monday - notice this weirdness at low rpm's
Do an ecu reset on Monday night.
Tue/Wed/Thursday(Talk bollox on scoobynet)
Blat it again Friday morning with full tank of $hell Optimax and i haven't been able to replicate the problem (altho i've been trying... ?) so i dunno if thats the cure of it, will have to give it a further day or too of blating...
P.S. its definatly quicker now, i have to brake earlier for corners etc (As i'm approaching them faster). And it goes like a train above 3,000rpm
(just i never bothered really trying until this morning as i thought it was the PPP ecu - doh!)