Turbo options.
24 July 2018, 10:04 AM
#1
Turbo options.
Morning peeps im at a cross road with turbo options . Il keep it short but looking for some advice from owners who have tried and tested these.
The car 2002 uk wrx 215hp model .
parts It's using are-
prodrive sports cat
2nd decat
2.5 non res centre
prodrive rear box.
3port prodrive
prodrive Y pipe on stock wrx cooler
cosworth panel filter
walbro 255
harvey smith 44mm up pipe
twin scroll sump kit
grade 7plugs
Sti pink injectors are needed I think.
Porting the stock headers I can see being done too.
so here's where I'm at, I know a remap il see 270ish hp but the td04 will tail off towards higher rpm.
I know the wrx is little chocolate made so with this in mind I want to limit the power to keep it reliable but same time not to tame as I'd like to have a go at a sprint /track day or 2 a year.
Turbo options i see are hybrid my 04H or buy a 05h or vf28. I don't want to do the vf35 route as I don't want a laggy car for sprinting I'd like it to be fast spooling with it punching to the red line . I think 300/300ft is a safe limit to stay at with enough fun in there too so that's my limit I want to stop at.
My question is what turbo would you recommend for the current set up ?
Regards Benji
The car 2002 uk wrx 215hp model .
parts It's using are-
prodrive sports cat
2nd decat
2.5 non res centre
prodrive rear box.
3port prodrive
prodrive Y pipe on stock wrx cooler
cosworth panel filter
walbro 255
harvey smith 44mm up pipe
twin scroll sump kit
grade 7plugs
Sti pink injectors are needed I think.
Porting the stock headers I can see being done too.
so here's where I'm at, I know a remap il see 270ish hp but the td04 will tail off towards higher rpm.
I know the wrx is little chocolate made so with this in mind I want to limit the power to keep it reliable but same time not to tame as I'd like to have a go at a sprint /track day or 2 a year.
Turbo options i see are hybrid my 04H or buy a 05h or vf28. I don't want to do the vf35 route as I don't want a laggy car for sprinting I'd like it to be fast spooling with it punching to the red line . I think 300/300ft is a safe limit to stay at with enough fun in there too so that's my limit I want to stop at.
My question is what turbo would you recommend for the current set up ?
Regards Benji
Last edited by scooby kid; 24 July 2018 at 12:21 PM.
24 July 2018, 12:07 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Throw the CAT out
I have similar mods to yours, if you want over 315 bhp...,
( it takes me 1.5 bar to reach with a TD05 16G )
Then throw the Prodrive sports cat out.
because it is not going to flow well enough, the CAT itself is a std WRX item.
Even though the nice looking / sounding Prodrive back box is already there, its still just a 2,5 inch system, so as you reach toward 350 bhp ( with a twin scroll turbo system do-able ) that too will start to hold you back.
I have just bought a Japspeed 3 inch with 200 CPI CAT and a 3 inch resonator / and back box system so that's what I'm doing right now.
( it takes me 1.5 bar to reach with a TD05 16G )
Then throw the Prodrive sports cat out.
because it is not going to flow well enough, the CAT itself is a std WRX item.
Even though the nice looking / sounding Prodrive back box is already there, its still just a 2,5 inch system, so as you reach toward 350 bhp ( with a twin scroll turbo system do-able ) that too will start to hold you back.
I have just bought a Japspeed 3 inch with 200 CPI CAT and a 3 inch resonator / and back box system so that's what I'm doing right now.
24 July 2018, 12:17 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
As you want to do Sprints , you had best stick with a TD04 Hybrid or the SC36 previously suggested. Don't go the TD05 16G route. I would expect however either to produce a lot more than 300lb/ft probably 330 + on the SC36. If you want to protect the gearbox then you would probably want to drop the final drive ratio on a sprint car as you will never need the WRX max speed. More to the point is getting out of the slower curves quicker and for that you need low down grunt.
24 July 2018, 02:31 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Joz , you posted on the SC36 , 33% lighter billet wheel,
The clinic had 390bhp from a 2.1 stroker.
No need to run 1,5 bar for this and for a 2.0 it will of course be less but surely the lighter wheel SC36 is fine for a sprint cars throttle response and a max power requirement over 320 but tune it to under 350 bhp.
The curves here convince me, it would make an excellent choice even if a bit pricey though at 1200 pounds.
This thread on here , Henrik's experience grabbed my attention
"Anyone got any experience of a Sc36 or 38 on a Blob wrx ??? "
The clinic had 390bhp from a 2.1 stroker.
No need to run 1,5 bar for this and for a 2.0 it will of course be less but surely the lighter wheel SC36 is fine for a sprint cars throttle response and a max power requirement over 320 but tune it to under 350 bhp.
The curves here convince me, it would make an excellent choice even if a bit pricey though at 1200 pounds.
This thread on here , Henrik's experience grabbed my attention
"Anyone got any experience of a Sc36 or 38 on a Blob wrx ??? "
Last edited by Linksfahrer; 24 July 2018 at 02:45 PM. Reason: add thread
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24 July 2018, 02:47 PM
#8
Cheers For the inputs . Il give the clinic a call to see about the sc30,
the sc36 is to big. I don't want the car to run the 350 mark as will most likely kill it somehow, wanted to keep the stock tmic agai to help with the lag and 350 is at its limit,
the 2.5inch system works better in my application over the 3inch as improves spool up and only becomes a restricted issue 340+ so not effected plus noise limits for events.
Trying to build a car with minimal lag but still pull all the way through which I know isn't easy and the uk wrx platform probably isn't the best to start of with but money's in this car so just half to carry on from here.
I have to think about heat and stress on the car so that's why sticking to the 300hp limit.
Cheers for help guys appreciate people's comments
the sc36 is to big. I don't want the car to run the 350 mark as will most likely kill it somehow, wanted to keep the stock tmic agai to help with the lag and 350 is at its limit,
the 2.5inch system works better in my application over the 3inch as improves spool up and only becomes a restricted issue 340+ so not effected plus noise limits for events.
Trying to build a car with minimal lag but still pull all the way through which I know isn't easy and the uk wrx platform probably isn't the best to start of with but money's in this car so just half to carry on from here.
I have to think about heat and stress on the car so that's why sticking to the 300hp limit.
Cheers for help guys appreciate people's comments
24 July 2018, 03:23 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Appreciate all that, but check what was on the thread I showed you. If you look at Hendrik's experience and normal opinions , gear boxes type 52 and 54 if you have one should be able to handle this.
Keep in mind its torque that kill's gearboxes not the max power at high rev's
I'd advise just to tune down the max boost and work on the low down torque delivery , You might find the 2,5 system is just about ok for your needs , but I suspect that the standard cat will be too asthmatic in it.
Im now going to use a 3 inch 200 cpi one , and added to that have just now (yes really) purchased the SC36 + Perrin 3 port from the clinic. The Std TMIC should be replaced at least for the Sti one, otherwise you only have power on the rollers / road for a short while. And yes the input heat will kill your good numbers otherwise. Your Std headers will in any case be working like gas accelerators on the exhaust to aid spool.
If you are really worried about the gear box remember to drop final drive ratio, on a 5 speed blob it will help you to get out of the tight curves considerably. in effect that's what the Sti 6 speed did anyhow.
Keep in mind its torque that kill's gearboxes not the max power at high rev's
I'd advise just to tune down the max boost and work on the low down torque delivery , You might find the 2,5 system is just about ok for your needs , but I suspect that the standard cat will be too asthmatic in it.
Im now going to use a 3 inch 200 cpi one , and added to that have just now (yes really) purchased the SC36 + Perrin 3 port from the clinic. The Std TMIC should be replaced at least for the Sti one, otherwise you only have power on the rollers / road for a short while. And yes the input heat will kill your good numbers otherwise. Your Std headers will in any case be working like gas accelerators on the exhaust to aid spool.
If you are really worried about the gear box remember to drop final drive ratio, on a 5 speed blob it will help you to get out of the tight curves considerably. in effect that's what the Sti 6 speed did anyhow.
24 July 2018, 03:45 PM
#10
Cheers,
is there a link as not seen one?
I thought the blobeye sti sports cat was good enough to flow 350hp. ?
i have thought about gearing to, so the bug and blob uk boxes have a different final drive I thought both 3.54 ?
as to tmic I thought the wrx would cope fine at low 300s it's mid 350 it struggles ?
Just thinking I could spend more on suspension then bits that arnt needed .
I was going to cover the tmic with that DEI heat wrap tape.
Would of been so much easy to start if with another sti but like I said put some /to much into this one now so il carry on,
It could be mapped now but the stock blower is just feeling flat up top and thinking I'd have it at max to just get 270ish where if I hybrid or swap out I can run it all at 70/ 80% instead of 95% and keep temps down Reliability up and enjoy more,
is there a link as not seen one?
I thought the blobeye sti sports cat was good enough to flow 350hp. ?
i have thought about gearing to, so the bug and blob uk boxes have a different final drive I thought both 3.54 ?
as to tmic I thought the wrx would cope fine at low 300s it's mid 350 it struggles ?
Just thinking I could spend more on suspension then bits that arnt needed .
I was going to cover the tmic with that DEI heat wrap tape.
Would of been so much easy to start if with another sti but like I said put some /to much into this one now so il carry on,
It could be mapped now but the stock blower is just feeling flat up top and thinking I'd have it at max to just get 270ish where if I hybrid or swap out I can run it all at 70/ 80% instead of 95% and keep temps down Reliability up and enjoy more,
24 July 2018, 04:31 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Ill take these one by one.
It not a link its a thread on here, so use the search.
If this is a Prodrive WRX engine then it has a Prodrive back box and a cat Delete
if its Sti PPP then yes you have a better flowing CAT , mine is a WRX 05 PPP and although it has a Prodrive system , the downpipe CAT is a WRX one I only found
this out during mapping at Surrey RR from Duncan last May.
The simple math on this is , 5 speed box + higher torque , is potential trouble
I think my 05 WRX has one of the longest ratios its currently 312 bhp
WRX does well over 170 mph on the autobahn. I have seen the dial go well past the 280 kmh and past 6,500 rpm in top gear. Nobody needs that speed on a sprint.
So logically as you wish to reduce the effect of torque on mechanicals then you need to reduce the resistance pushing against them. The RA's I think have considerably lower final drive ratio's. I don't know about which is compatible with which. Ask others more in know.
But a 2002-2005 5MT WRX 1.1 x 3.54 = ~3.90
TMIC , anyone is going to say that these are on the WRX far too small , the Sti 8 is the commonly accepted upgrade, you can indeed save a bit of spool up on the std one , but tuners hate them as you might get a headline number on the roller , but tweaking afterwards is always going to be hard as the heat sink progresses. Same goes for road mapping, they can't take more than 300hp and even then your intake temps are rising steadily. So cope yes , good for tuning no. All that happens is the ECU will see the heat ,other sensors and pull timing etc.
On a Rolling road the blower open hood does a fair job to keep this under control but sorry a bit of heat tape on the intercooler won't help increase air flow. What you are trying to do is soak heat out not keep it in. If you are going to heat wrap do it on the headers and the downpipe / cover the turbo to prevent some heat radiation getting into the engine bay. Rule of thumb bigger turbo requires bigger IC.
Your engine if in good condition is good for 350 bhp with a good tune,
after that point the strength of rods and pistons are questionable. The next step here is Sti pistons/ rods or go for Forged say from Mahle.
You might end up doing this anyway.
Your stock blower is not suitable for high boost. Take a look at the Turbo efficiency and flow rate graphs before investing , even the TD05 16G is not working in its efficient range past 1.2 bar , often a slightly bigger Turbo working in its efficient range is the better option, Than a ***** nailed to wall approach ( my 16G is dread full at 1.5bar ) I should not need that kind of pressure for 312bhp and 300lb ft at 4500rpm on a very late climbing curve. That's why I'm re-thinking my approach.
all best Ralph
It not a link its a thread on here, so use the search.
If this is a Prodrive WRX engine then it has a Prodrive back box and a cat Delete
if its Sti PPP then yes you have a better flowing CAT , mine is a WRX 05 PPP and although it has a Prodrive system , the downpipe CAT is a WRX one I only found
this out during mapping at Surrey RR from Duncan last May.
The simple math on this is , 5 speed box + higher torque , is potential trouble
I think my 05 WRX has one of the longest ratios its currently 312 bhp
WRX does well over 170 mph on the autobahn. I have seen the dial go well past the 280 kmh and past 6,500 rpm in top gear. Nobody needs that speed on a sprint.
So logically as you wish to reduce the effect of torque on mechanicals then you need to reduce the resistance pushing against them. The RA's I think have considerably lower final drive ratio's. I don't know about which is compatible with which. Ask others more in know.
But a 2002-2005 5MT WRX 1.1 x 3.54 = ~3.90
TMIC , anyone is going to say that these are on the WRX far too small , the Sti 8 is the commonly accepted upgrade, you can indeed save a bit of spool up on the std one , but tuners hate them as you might get a headline number on the roller , but tweaking afterwards is always going to be hard as the heat sink progresses. Same goes for road mapping, they can't take more than 300hp and even then your intake temps are rising steadily. So cope yes , good for tuning no. All that happens is the ECU will see the heat ,other sensors and pull timing etc.
On a Rolling road the blower open hood does a fair job to keep this under control but sorry a bit of heat tape on the intercooler won't help increase air flow. What you are trying to do is soak heat out not keep it in. If you are going to heat wrap do it on the headers and the downpipe / cover the turbo to prevent some heat radiation getting into the engine bay. Rule of thumb bigger turbo requires bigger IC.
Your engine if in good condition is good for 350 bhp with a good tune,
after that point the strength of rods and pistons are questionable. The next step here is Sti pistons/ rods or go for Forged say from Mahle.
You might end up doing this anyway.
Your stock blower is not suitable for high boost. Take a look at the Turbo efficiency and flow rate graphs before investing , even the TD05 16G is not working in its efficient range past 1.2 bar , often a slightly bigger Turbo working in its efficient range is the better option, Than a ***** nailed to wall approach ( my 16G is dread full at 1.5bar ) I should not need that kind of pressure for 312bhp and 300lb ft at 4500rpm on a very late climbing curve. That's why I'm re-thinking my approach.
all best Ralph
I respected your thoughts,comments. 
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