piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

So, totally unexpectedly I seem to be on the way to building a 2.1 engine. I've just collected some very nicely prepared SCD block halves along with new RCM 14mm bolts. I'll be getting new wiseco pistons, latest STI crank and rods soon and plan to use my existing V3 heads. I'm saying I'd like to see high 300's out of this (is it possible?) so my question is, which turbo?

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

SC36 or 38 if you're not looking for over 400bhp or the SC42 Billet
md321 has good feedback.
gT30 good reviews.
There are a few options.
Are you upgrading your gearbox too? The 2.1 has a fair bit more torque I hear so not sure how a standard 5 speed would hold up?

I would of thought you would be looking to high 400's with a 2.1 ?

domino46

I went for a forced performance red from the states , there is a lot of savings to be had from buying a turbo from the states , mines been awesome so far and made higher numbers than I expected and was a lot cheaper than the UK turbos making the same power

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Eventually I'll go up in to the 400s I'm sure but for now it'll have to stay tame. Having said that I'm not in a rush to build it so maybe I will aim high. With regards to the box, yes I'll need to swap to something stronger. I assume 6 speed is the way to go here?

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for that, I'll check it out!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

If you have a final figure in mind down the line then pick the smallest turbo to hit your target, if its not much over 400bhp then sc42 and mdx321h are good choice. Gearbox wise you could go for a ppg or a 6 speed at that sort of level but me personally would always go for a 6 speed

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

MDX321h

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Looks like the MDX is the way to go then. Is there a point at which the standard turbo position becomes an issue?

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

If you want to go over 600hp

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

I defo don't want to do that.

Thanks for the input everyone!

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

trouble is after 6 months 400 bhp will feel like 200 again, amazing how quickly you get used to it lol

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Think I'm gonna build for 500+ and save for a 6 speed!

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Honestly, if you have to save for a 6speed, 500+ is going to end in tears. 500hp comes with 500hp running costs. You are talking mega money to maintain let alone build.

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

When I say save I mean let the dust settle with the wife after buying all the stroker parts and that I'm in no rush to do anything at all. The car is in dry storage too.

What additional maintenance costs over a standard-ish car would there be?

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Fair enough,

Additional maintenance? You want super car performance, you get super car bills to go with them. Everything is more expensive and goes wrong more often

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Well that's to be expected and I'm prepared for that. I don't use the car very often as it's literally a hobby and play thing so I should be no worse off than the next man.

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

these threads always seem to go the same way:Whatever

18 months ago i bought a 500+ newage that unfortunately went bang a few months after buying it .to give you an idea a built bottom end that will run 5-600 (ie nothing special) will cost 4k excluding fitting .thats the easy bit .its all the ancillaries that cost ---- fuel system allow a grand fitted +injectors that suit your power output-- headers and turbo maybe 1-3k depending on new or second hand---clutch 1-2k new or second hand fitted-- 6 speed 1.2-1.5 k excluding fitting to car---if you havent got one an ecu 1k upwards excluding mapping at roughly 500 quid a pop--- ancillaries i havent listed catchcans hoses
inlets- uppipes- ,ignt coils- ,brakes -.suspension-.Big filter,fluids- .3 oil changes in first 1k miles.gaskets and labour to fit all of above 2-3k easy ,dont forget to get your 20 year old sti heads rebuilt at the same time.

just seems to come to a lot of dough if your starting from scratch, i was lucky as all the go faster bits were already fitted so i just had a top and bottom end to do still came to 6k though
sure makes a nice sub 400 classic look a nice cheap option

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the input mate. I already have larger brakes (Brembo rear/Alcon front), hawk STI master cylinder, full braided brake pipe kit, WR97 Bilsteins, a set of the new P11L springs, Whiteline drop links, Cusco adjustable bars, ESL ECU, new SWRD pump, newage coil packs and much more ready and waiting. My heads have only done about 4000 miles so they'll need a check over and adjusted really. I'll be fitting all parts myself as I have a garage with a 2 post lift, engine hoist, stand and so on. What I'll need is a capable turbo, injectors (and rails?), ported standard headers and up pipe. 6 speed and clutch too. As for oils and consumables, that's exactly what I did with the car when I got it anyway as it had just been rebuilt.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

No you will need decent headers not ported for over 500.

And 6k would be a basic 500hp build. It will function but be crude.

bigsigh

iTrader: (4)

Yea but the car is still gonna function with ported headers , I mean if that's all that is absent from the build he can map for what he has and if he finds the ported headers are really holding back can fit an alternative down the line.
Building a strong and capable bottom end doesn't mean every other part needs to be sitting ready in storage before the build starts , the chat on here you would think he darent turn the key till he has spent thousands and thousands of pounds

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

As you will be doing most if not all the work yourself from the build to the mapping,sounds like you bought a decent stroker kit at a decent price,also looking to put a quality turbo and a good 6 speed setup on there.
So there is no reason why it won't turn out to be a reliable,quality 500+ build at a good price.
Labour costs alone plus bagging the parts at a good price will save you thousands!
Good luck with the build piehole

Ps hope you will be starting a build thread

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Exactly mate. I'm in for the long haul here and there's no panic to do anything. My first goal is to build a strong engine that is capable of handling higher power for the future. There's nothing stopping me running it at 350bhp until I go 6 speed. Ported headers were recommended by a very knowledgable bloke on here who knows what he's on about.

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Thanks pal! The only thing I won't be doing is boring the blocks for the new pistons. I've bagged some awesome new parts for great money. I certainly will document my progress!

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

jay my "cheap crude" build made 550-500 today@ 1.8 bar thats as much power as old engine made with meth map at 1.9 bar
id1000s and 044 at there limit
272 cams bring the car alive at higher revs
,syvecs mapper said 600+ for meth ,be interesting to see what a 2 bar map would make on vpower with more fuelling capacity

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

That's fantastic! Well done! Was your "cheap crude" engine self built?

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

no absolutely not cdb built up by zen after last engine grenaded itself into oblivion top of my head mahle pistons .manley 800 rods, new sti crank,very low mileage sti AVCS heads, rcm 14mm head studs ,supertech valves ,and my existing 272 cams .
the engine already had rcm manifolds ,harvey uppipe,sc54 turbo ,hyperflow front mount, built fuel system id1000s bosch 044 and syvecs ecu,tsl exhaust,upgraded engine mounts,twin plate.... you get the idea goes on and on

tbh the newage cars are a LOT heavier ,reckon 430-450 classic would keep up no probs.

will definately look to push a little harder with 1300 injectors and better pump(s)
not bad at 1.8 bar on a 540 brake rated turbo, mapper had to pull back fuelling to stop pressure dropping off. its made as much power on vpower as old engine did on meth at 2 bar.
as with all things more grunt brings its own probs 25 plus runs(guesstimate) moved a fair bit of oil into the catchcan and some into the vent pipe on the floor, need to rethink catchcan install pronto. goes quite well once you get into the meat of the powerband though.

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

enough blabber about mine

tbh under 450 (which makes for a monster classic car anyway) the cheaper stroker kits
from rcm -lateral will do just fine reuse your own heads ,ported headers sc42 750cc injectors and off you go!!! ,guaranteed healthy 400 plus scoob for a few grand bobs your uncle.

past this range you need to plan a "build" this will involve discussing suitable matching components for your power goals. with someone whos built them before .obviously this costs more money as its more hand built . unfortunately fuji heavy industries never allowed for 500+ engines in their impreza family

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Yours sounds like an animal! What's it like for lag? Driveable as a road car?

Well at the moment I have a SCDB sitting ready to use and has been machined for 14mm studs, a new crank (latest one), custom new Wiseco forged pistons, new STI rods (which I plan to shift on and buy something better) and new RCM 14mm studs.

As for what's on the car already that will be used:
ESL
Blitz full system
Unknown "group a" decat downpipe
Autobahn FMIC
3 port BCS
V3 heads

All of the above plus loads of suspension and brake upgrades, forged wheels and so on. So the up pipe and turbo are what I need to sort next along with rods. Any recommendations for rods?

Would I be right to say a SC42 would beyond the 420bhp its name refers to?

madwrx

iTrader: (2)

sorry mate only just seen this
for my own car it runs 8.5 compression which has brought a 800 rpm improvement in spool- apart from the cams being properly dialled in its all i can see different from the previous engine ? ,on the road pulls onto boost at 3200 rpm and even better in the higher gears. need to remember i run avcs heads as well.

i,d like to take credit for the parts fitted to my car but external parts were all fitted by the previous owner(s).and of course the mapping/setup done on this build

i.m not interested in track work so drivabillity was very important to me considering how poor the previous engine was (boost at 4k). the mapping seems to have made it into very usable package so far.

have to be realistic though most biggish turbo 2.1 engines seem to come alive after 4k ,all the tinkering with the uppipes downpipes will only improve so much your still trying to spool the turbo with a small engine really.

this is why previous posts would suggest the smaller sc42 -321h billet size turbos
as these with the right uppipe will give good top and bottom end response.

i would suggest you talk to mark at lateral or alyn at ASP mate,these guys both just give straight answers to straight questions.

BUT you will need to have an idea of what your trying to achieve and your budget .
sc42 does relate to its approximate power potential .if you,ve been tooling around in standardish 300 brake cars that.ll be a very fast road car and all your other parts will be suitable.