Flat foot shifting
15 February 2016, 09:26 AM
#1
Flat foot shifting
Considered having the above mapped in when I originally had the car mapped but was put off with potential synchro issues so did not bother. Though since have seen quite a few people running this on 6 speed boxes, before I get it mapped in want to know if anyone has had any issues?
15 February 2016, 10:37 AM
#2
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None of my business Banny, but I thought you were selling up. Have I missed something?
I noticed Fud has had a change of heart.
If you're keeping it, good for you. Pukka enthusiasts are a rare breed in my view.
I noticed Fud has had a change of heart.
If you're keeping it, good for you. Pukka enthusiasts are a rare breed in my view.
15 February 2016, 10:56 AM
#4
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I have it on my 2006 hawk sit and love it I've not had any problems with using it with 360 bhp. Not sure I'm going to continue using it once my engine build is complete as will be running 450/500bhp and not sure the components will put up with it for long as it's quite harsh on everything. It's fun though that's for sure.
15 February 2016, 04:50 PM
#7
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15 February 2016, 05:30 PM
#9
Completely agree, if it wasn't for that fact I have buggered this box already I wouldn't have bothered, I break them easily enough without and, after the map this weekend I imagine it will be even easier!
15 February 2016, 09:49 PM
#12
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i flat shift if i can pull the gear lever straight back, i.e. 3rd to 4th, 5th-6th, if i have to dog leg then i lift off the throttle momentarily otherwise it buzzes the limiter
i'm not convinced that having flat foot shifting mapped in would provide any benefit in increasing gearbox life, it may even shock load the gearbox worse
16 February 2016, 06:52 AM
#15
16 February 2016, 07:48 AM
#16
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If you do decide to go this route Banny, buy this instead of the proper "flat foot shift switch" thats out there....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/111674637124
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/111674637124
16 February 2016, 06:08 PM
#18
I am pretty sure that 6 speeds are reliable at that power if you are gentle..... but what's the point of having 500hp and been a poof with it?
They are quite cheap to get rebuilt to be fair. Like I say, this is my second 6 speed I have broke, and I haven't even used my flat foot shifting yet.
Il be using it on the 27th so well see how long this one lasts lol
16 February 2016, 06:22 PM
#19
Samsonas gear set.....
I am pretty sure that 6 speeds are reliable at that power if you are gentle..... but what's the point of having 500hp and been a poof with it?
They are quite cheap to get rebuilt to be fair. Like I say, this is my second 6 speed I have broke, and I haven't even used my flat foot shifting yet.
Il be using it on the 27th so well see how long this one lasts lol
I am pretty sure that 6 speeds are reliable at that power if you are gentle..... but what's the point of having 500hp and been a poof with it?
They are quite cheap to get rebuilt to be fair. Like I say, this is my second 6 speed I have broke, and I haven't even used my flat foot shifting yet.
Il be using it on the 27th so well see how long this one lasts lol
Six speeds do take a fair old bit of abuse and you can put acres of torque through them. But if you use them hard with big power then they do eventually let go. Syncros in 5th and 6th seem to be the main culprit. Mine is just about in its way out...no complaints it has served me well and it will just need stripping and a refresh.
If you drive like Miss Daisy with your 500hp down to Tesco it will last you for ever
16 February 2016, 06:29 PM
#20
I echo this
Six speeds do take a fair old bit of abuse and you can put acres of torque through them. But if you use them hard with big power then they do eventually let go. Syncros in 5th and 6th seem to be the main culprit. Mine is just about in its way out...no complaints it has served me well and it will just need stripping and a refresh.
If you drive like Miss Daisy with your 500hp down to Tesco it will last you for ever
Six speeds do take a fair old bit of abuse and you can put acres of torque through them. But if you use them hard with big power then they do eventually let go. Syncros in 5th and 6th seem to be the main culprit. Mine is just about in its way out...no complaints it has served me well and it will just need stripping and a refresh.
If you drive like Miss Daisy with your 500hp down to Tesco it will last you for ever
15 May 2016, 07:00 AM
#23
Save the money. I'm having mine taken off
It's a complete and utterly qaste of time, sounds like a wet fart on gear change and the synchro mesh hates it. And it doesn't make it any faster.
Actually makes it a pig to drive as it is always active when you change gear
It's a complete and utterly qaste of time, sounds like a wet fart on gear change and the synchro mesh hates it. And it doesn't make it any faster.
Actually makes it a pig to drive as it is always active when you change gear
15 May 2016, 10:18 AM
#25
Properly set up it works really well. From my Syvecs logs, I noted that the time from pressing the clutch, and seeing boost drop, to the boost building back up to where it was dropped from 1s to 0.3s using flat foot shifting (gear cut, in Syvecs terminology).
No issues with synchromesh either.
I do know what you mean about it sometimes getting in the way. This can be alleviated by setting the rpm that it becomes active suitably high - but that is generally only a full solution for drag strip use.
Mine is set at 5000 rpm, and it does catch me out occasionally and I keep meaning to raise it to maybe 6000.
Otherwise, the solution is to wire a manual switch in-line with the switch to disconnect the clutch switch from the ECU when not wanted.
15 May 2016, 10:54 AM
#26
I beg to differ!!
Properly set up it works really well. From my Syvecs logs, I noted that the time from pressing the clutch, and seeing boost drop, to the boost building back up to where it was dropped from 1s to 0.3s using flat foot shifting (gear cut, in Syvecs terminology).
No issues with synchromesh either.
I do know what you mean about it sometimes getting in the way. This can be alleviated by setting the rpm that it becomes active suitably high - but that is generally only a full solution for drag strip use.
Mine is set at 5000 rpm, and it does catch me out occasionally and I keep meaning to raise it to maybe 6000.
Otherwise, the solution is to wire a manual switch in-line with the switch to disconnect the clutch switch from the ECU when not wanted.
Properly set up it works really well. From my Syvecs logs, I noted that the time from pressing the clutch, and seeing boost drop, to the boost building back up to where it was dropped from 1s to 0.3s using flat foot shifting (gear cut, in Syvecs terminology).
No issues with synchromesh either.
I do know what you mean about it sometimes getting in the way. This can be alleviated by setting the rpm that it becomes active suitably high - but that is generally only a full solution for drag strip use.
Mine is set at 5000 rpm, and it does catch me out occasionally and I keep meaning to raise it to maybe 6000.
Otherwise, the solution is to wire a manual switch in-line with the switch to disconnect the clutch switch from the ECU when not wanted.
When it works and the gearbox is playing ball then maybe it's a good tool. But more often than not they don't.
Most people can't drive with it because they drive like fannies. I have raced cars with it out and in real world terms they are actually losing time on their gear shifts compared to me who was not running it.
Edit - Tim, what cable do we need to put the switch on, as I will be doing that with mine.
Also what signal is the ecu seeing to enable the function, just wondering if I could put it on with my map switch
Last edited by JGlanzaV; 15 May 2016 at 10:55 AM.
15 May 2016, 11:07 AM
#27
If you buy your own switch, it's up to you to sort the relevant connector
Not sure about AlcaTek though.
15 May 2016, 11:13 AM
#28
The one we supply comes complete with a mating connector and/or a cable. In the case of AlcaTek it plugs in to the green test connectors so we can supply a short plug-and-play cable; for Syvecs, it wires back to the ECU so just a 1m cable to wire in.
If you buy your own switch, it's up to you to sort the relevant connector
It wires to an input assigned to "gear cut" on a Syvecs, but the function cannot be enabed/disabled via CAL selection.
Not sure about AlcaTek though.
If you buy your own switch, it's up to you to sort the relevant connector
It wires to an input assigned to "gear cut" on a Syvecs, but the function cannot be enabed/disabled via CAL selection.
Not sure about AlcaTek though.
You supplied my whole kit, Martyn and myself dealt with you for all the conversion looms for my car. V3 to v5 inlet, avcs, flat foot shifting, newage coil packs etc.
What cable do I need to put the switch in, to disable the clutch switch, or does it not matter? Is the clutch switch normally open or normally close?
Also I mean what signal is the ecu out putting and looking to receive back? Is it a 5v output, volt free, 12v etc?
Thanks
Jamie
Last edited by JGlanzaV; 15 May 2016 at 11:14 AM.
15 May 2016, 11:25 AM
#29
Misunderstood - sorry! And can never remember who's had what from us lol
It's simply a switch to ground - the ECU input has an internal pull-up to +5V.
I changed from a normally open to normally closed switch about 6 months ago - this was so that if the switch failed it would not go into permanent cut mode.
The earlier switches have a 2 pin black connector, and you can simply intercept the ECU input wire with a series switch to enable/disable.
The later have a larger white connector that can take 4 pins (although only 2 are used). Your enable/disable switch needs to be wired in parallel for this one.
If you want to do a belt-and-braces check on what's going on, use a test meter across the 2 switch contacts to see which way it switches when you press the clutch - your disable switch needs to make sure the ECU input remains in the same state as when the clutch is not pressed.
Hope that makes sense!!??
It's simply a switch to ground - the ECU input has an internal pull-up to +5V.
I changed from a normally open to normally closed switch about 6 months ago - this was so that if the switch failed it would not go into permanent cut mode.
The earlier switches have a 2 pin black connector, and you can simply intercept the ECU input wire with a series switch to enable/disable.
The later have a larger white connector that can take 4 pins (although only 2 are used). Your enable/disable switch needs to be wired in parallel for this one.
If you want to do a belt-and-braces check on what's going on, use a test meter across the 2 switch contacts to see which way it switches when you press the clutch - your disable switch needs to make sure the ECU input remains in the same state as when the clutch is not pressed.
Hope that makes sense!!??
15 May 2016, 11:29 AM
#30
Misunderstood - sorry! And can never remember who's had what from us lol
It's simply a switch to ground - the ECU input has an internal pull-up to +5V.
I changed from a normally open to normally closed switch about 6 months ago - this was so that if the switch failed it would not go into permanent cut mode.
The earlier switches have a 2 pin black connector, and you can simply intercept the ECU input wire with a series switch to enable/disable.
The later have a larger white connector that can take 4 pins (although only 2 are used). Your enable/disable switch needs to be wired in parallel for this one.
If you want to do a belt-and-braces check on what's going on, use a test meter across the 2 switch contacts to see which way it switches when you press the clutch - your disable switch needs to make sure the ECU input remains in the same state as when the clutch is not pressed.
Hope that makes sense!!??
It's simply a switch to ground - the ECU input has an internal pull-up to +5V.
I changed from a normally open to normally closed switch about 6 months ago - this was so that if the switch failed it would not go into permanent cut mode.
The earlier switches have a 2 pin black connector, and you can simply intercept the ECU input wire with a series switch to enable/disable.
The later have a larger white connector that can take 4 pins (although only 2 are used). Your enable/disable switch needs to be wired in parallel for this one.
If you want to do a belt-and-braces check on what's going on, use a test meter across the 2 switch contacts to see which way it switches when you press the clutch - your disable switch needs to make sure the ECU input remains in the same state as when the clutch is not pressed.
Hope that makes sense!!??
I am a controls engineer deal either all of this on a daily basis. Next mission is to make it compatible with my CAL switch.
I'm thinking a 5v really from CAL 8, so when I have it in full race map it energises the relay activating the flat foot shifting