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its bull****
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no it works!
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bull**** or not? hydrogen cleaning
04 February 2015, 07:14 PM
#1
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bull**** or not? hydrogen cleaning
seen a Facebook page today near me
im not convinced but the photos seem to suggest it works
https://www.facebook.com/Enginecarboncleanherts
another page for it
http://keipertech.com/hydrogen-produ...gine-cleaning/
im not convinced but the photos seem to suggest it works
https://www.facebook.com/Enginecarboncleanherts
another page for it
http://keipertech.com/hydrogen-produ...gine-cleaning/
04 February 2015, 08:20 PM
#3
These "cleaning systems" are nothing new...they've been around for over 20years. Just obviously every now and again a new-commer comes along with some nice branding maybe pay the services of a celebrity "expert" to help sell it and charge customers (and franchisees) to suit. And we all think its the next new big thing...it aint.
We've got a Crypton one laying around somewhere that's as old as the hills. Also got a newer Forte one which does pretty much the same thing.
The Crypton was the dog dangles...not the machine which is just a glorified tank and fuel pump with various hoses, but the chemicals available we could use in it, similar stuff to various paint thinners and removers.
Unfortunately those chemicals are now banned for sale in the UK. So the market for these machine died off big style until some companies have come up with equivalent chemicals with enough potency to do anything - ignoring the ones that sell snake oil.
IMO these newer chemicals are still not as good as the old fashioned carb cleaners you could get in the mid 1990's and get you pretty high at the same time (trippy
). 
The big question is: does your car need it? In most cases its a big no; well, nothing a damn good blast down the motorway for two hours wouldn't do (fuel is also a detergent too
).. The cars that usually suffer are ones driven too sedately, short journeys, city use etc or been running a rich mixture or a misfire for a excessive periods..like months and years (and as most cars are closed loop and adaptive EFi control, that is rare now). Direct injection cars also suffer.
We've got a Crypton one laying around somewhere that's as old as the hills. Also got a newer Forte one which does pretty much the same thing.
The Crypton was the dog dangles...not the machine which is just a glorified tank and fuel pump with various hoses, but the chemicals available we could use in it, similar stuff to various paint thinners and removers.
Unfortunately those chemicals are now banned for sale in the UK. So the market for these machine died off big style until some companies have come up with equivalent chemicals with enough potency to do anything - ignoring the ones that sell snake oil.
IMO these newer chemicals are still not as good as the old fashioned carb cleaners you could get in the mid 1990's and get you pretty high at the same time (trippy
). The big question is: does your car need it? In most cases its a big no; well, nothing a damn good blast down the motorway for two hours wouldn't do (fuel is also a detergent too
).. The cars that usually suffer are ones driven too sedately, short journeys, city use etc or been running a rich mixture or a misfire for a excessive periods..like months and years (and as most cars are closed loop and adaptive EFi control, that is rare now). Direct injection cars also suffer.
04 February 2015, 08:48 PM
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I had my M3 terracleaned and a friend of mine who runs a garage had it put on the Mot emmisions machine it went from being borderline to basically having the same emmisions level as a new car so I was pretty convinced with it, the performance was also notably improved.
05 February 2015, 02:45 PM
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If I was that worried about cleaning the engine I'd use Cataclean (used a few times on my RX8) which does the trick, like redex but better.
Again a rotary thing but if you have really bad carbon build up like said above there is a product called Seafoam which can be used to break this down too. Good for cleaning oiled up components and oil lines.
But 99% of the time not really needed.
Again a rotary thing but if you have really bad carbon build up like said above there is a product called Seafoam which can be used to break this down too. Good for cleaning oiled up components and oil lines.
But 99% of the time not really needed.
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24 April 2017, 07:29 PM
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The truth about Hydrogen engine cleaning... (and other "cleaning" products).-
After reading this thread, I kept wondering if people really understands the hydrogen cleaning procedure, or not at all...
First; there are several misconceptions here, I'll try to clarify, rectify or explain them.
Second, I am not affiliated with any cleaning shop or business.
Third: I work for a large Gov. R&D center in Mexico City, and I have debunked A LOT of "miracle products" along my 38 years at my job, related to fuel formulation, lube oils, additives, emissions and engine performance.
Well, the "machine" is NOT "a tank with a pump and solvents..."
It is an electrolysis tank that houses a pair of electrodes that use alternating current to generate a mixture of Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2) from plain water. The hydrogen plus oxygen stream is a small (about 40 litres per hour) stream that is aspirated by the engine running at idle or fast idle for 35 to 40 minutes. The small (about 1/4 inch hose) is adapted to the vacuum hose of the brake booster, and the engine started and kept at idle or fast idle. A tailpipe gasses analyzer monitors the exhaust emissions during the procedure, and serves the purpose of observing any change in emissions from before, during and after the cleaning is being performed.
The hydrogen is a completely carbonless fuel: it cannot add any carbon to the combustion chamber, and by virtue of its higher flame temperature, it gradually and harmlessly removes all carbon from the combustion chamber and piston top, the Oxygen sensor and the Catalytic converter. the Oxygen content also promotes a very good combustion, helping to burn the carbon deposits of a used engine.
Another comment in this thread:
"they just put steam down the inlet manifold. Nice. An engine full of water when it condenses..."
is wrong, as the procedure is carried out with the engine at full operating temperature. Very little steam is produced apart from the steam created by the combustion, and you cannot see any during the proper procedure. At the operating temperature of the fully warmed engine, all water vapor is well above condensation temperature. there is ABSOLUTELY no risk of water condensing inside the engine.
Also, there are no "paint thinner" compounds to be used in a proper Hydrogen cleaning procedure, there SHOULDN'T be any! The purpose of the hydrogen plus oxygen cleaning is to AVOID adding any carbon apart from the gasoline injected by the engine. As the closed loop fuel injection modulates the gasoline injection during the cleaning, the fuel mixture is altered slightly by the car computer and sensors, but the net result is a much cleaner combustion that not only does not add any carbon, but gradually removes it.
Industry has used hydrogen torchs to cleanly remove carbonaceous matter from many items, the most common use is as a winding insulation removal from burned-out or damaged electrical motors for re-winding: the hydrogen cleaning removes 100% of the insulating varnish without damaging the rest of the rotor laminations.
Properly executed, the hydrogen cleaning usually reduces the emissions enough to pass a tight test on a borderline vehicle. Both NOx and HC-CO emission levels drop at least 25% in most vehicles that are otherwise in good condition. But it is mandatory to clean and test fuel injectors before any hydrogen cleaning, as it is very frequent to see injectors that leak or dripp, or have a bad spray pattern, but the closed circuit electronic fuel injection performs its magical balance act, and the engine appears to be running OK, and soon the cleaning makes way to fouling again soon if not corrected.
Finally, after many engines disassembled and inspected, I've concluded the following:
1) DO NOT use ANY liquid cleaner that is sprayed, aspirated or injected into the engine; it will foul the sparkplugs, the combustion chamber and the O2 sensor and catalytic converter. This includes the much overtouted "sea foam" products and similar ones, or the aromatic solvent types akin to "paint thinners", as they have a much higher carbon to hidrogen proportion than gasoline, and consequently will produce much soot and carbon deposits. A simple and quick sparkplug inspection will reveal that these liquids really leave the plug's ceramic completely blackened with soot, and the engine misses bladly for a short time after the "cleaning"...
2) Refrain to use the popular (and almost useless) injector cleaners that come in small bottles. They only increase the gasoline detergency slightly, which, by the way is highly undesirable(!) as it softens any gum deposits from the fuel tank and piping, and get it ready to be redeposited at the fuel pressure regulator or the injector's tips, which can plug more easily. the "injector cleaner" will make it easier for gums and other deposits to pass across the fuel filter, only to redeposit farther away.
The BEST and ONLY recommended procedure is to REMOVE the injectors from the engine and take them to a well equipped cleaning lab, where the proper technician will inspect, electrically measure, and flow test them before and after cleaning them in an ultrasonic bath. Then the technician should replace the microfilters and replace the O-Rings and retest the cleaned injectors in order to check if they shut-off the fuel at pressure and prevent any leaking or dripping. ANY OTHER "cleaning procedure" will only transport dirt from the tank to the injectors. AVOID at all costs the use of solvent injector "cleaning" that burns the solvent with the engine running from a canister or cartridge: the solvents used are very carbon-rich (Xylene or Toluene types) and will guarantee a heavy sparkplug fouling, O2 senso fouling and cat converter fouling.
3) In some engines, the PCV system is not properly designed, so that a lot of oil vapors and gunk deposits in the inlet manifold or inlet valve ports. Some BMW dealers do perform a manual inlet manifold and inlet valve port cleaning procedure, where they remove the manifold and blast the inlet port with nutshell and high pressure air, aspirating the residues with a close coupled vacuum hose. The procedure is approved by the factory, but somewhat expensive and lenghty, as it requires to keep the valves closed during the blasting, then turning the engine to close the valves of the next cylinder, until all cylinders are done.
As described, the Hydrogen cleaning is quite effective, and if the engine was not terribly fouled with hard and thick carbon deposits, it cleans as well as opening the cylinders, in a much more practical and easy way. It needs to be performed properly and at least during 35-40 minutes at the proper H2+O2 flow. If the inlet manifold and valves are dirty, a manifold removal and manual cleaning is required, as the Hydrogen cleaning procedure only cleans from the combustion chamber to the exhaust, but leaves the inlet tract the same. Best Wishes!
Amclaussen, P.Eng.
After reading this thread, I kept wondering if people really understands the hydrogen cleaning procedure, or not at all...
First; there are several misconceptions here, I'll try to clarify, rectify or explain them.
Second, I am not affiliated with any cleaning shop or business.
Third: I work for a large Gov. R&D center in Mexico City, and I have debunked A LOT of "miracle products" along my 38 years at my job, related to fuel formulation, lube oils, additives, emissions and engine performance.
Well, the "machine" is NOT "a tank with a pump and solvents..."
It is an electrolysis tank that houses a pair of electrodes that use alternating current to generate a mixture of Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2) from plain water. The hydrogen plus oxygen stream is a small (about 40 litres per hour) stream that is aspirated by the engine running at idle or fast idle for 35 to 40 minutes. The small (about 1/4 inch hose) is adapted to the vacuum hose of the brake booster, and the engine started and kept at idle or fast idle. A tailpipe gasses analyzer monitors the exhaust emissions during the procedure, and serves the purpose of observing any change in emissions from before, during and after the cleaning is being performed.
The hydrogen is a completely carbonless fuel: it cannot add any carbon to the combustion chamber, and by virtue of its higher flame temperature, it gradually and harmlessly removes all carbon from the combustion chamber and piston top, the Oxygen sensor and the Catalytic converter. the Oxygen content also promotes a very good combustion, helping to burn the carbon deposits of a used engine.
Another comment in this thread:
"they just put steam down the inlet manifold. Nice. An engine full of water when it condenses..."
is wrong, as the procedure is carried out with the engine at full operating temperature. Very little steam is produced apart from the steam created by the combustion, and you cannot see any during the proper procedure. At the operating temperature of the fully warmed engine, all water vapor is well above condensation temperature. there is ABSOLUTELY no risk of water condensing inside the engine.
Also, there are no "paint thinner" compounds to be used in a proper Hydrogen cleaning procedure, there SHOULDN'T be any! The purpose of the hydrogen plus oxygen cleaning is to AVOID adding any carbon apart from the gasoline injected by the engine. As the closed loop fuel injection modulates the gasoline injection during the cleaning, the fuel mixture is altered slightly by the car computer and sensors, but the net result is a much cleaner combustion that not only does not add any carbon, but gradually removes it.
Industry has used hydrogen torchs to cleanly remove carbonaceous matter from many items, the most common use is as a winding insulation removal from burned-out or damaged electrical motors for re-winding: the hydrogen cleaning removes 100% of the insulating varnish without damaging the rest of the rotor laminations.
Properly executed, the hydrogen cleaning usually reduces the emissions enough to pass a tight test on a borderline vehicle. Both NOx and HC-CO emission levels drop at least 25% in most vehicles that are otherwise in good condition. But it is mandatory to clean and test fuel injectors before any hydrogen cleaning, as it is very frequent to see injectors that leak or dripp, or have a bad spray pattern, but the closed circuit electronic fuel injection performs its magical balance act, and the engine appears to be running OK, and soon the cleaning makes way to fouling again soon if not corrected.
Finally, after many engines disassembled and inspected, I've concluded the following:
1) DO NOT use ANY liquid cleaner that is sprayed, aspirated or injected into the engine; it will foul the sparkplugs, the combustion chamber and the O2 sensor and catalytic converter. This includes the much overtouted "sea foam" products and similar ones, or the aromatic solvent types akin to "paint thinners", as they have a much higher carbon to hidrogen proportion than gasoline, and consequently will produce much soot and carbon deposits. A simple and quick sparkplug inspection will reveal that these liquids really leave the plug's ceramic completely blackened with soot, and the engine misses bladly for a short time after the "cleaning"...
2) Refrain to use the popular (and almost useless) injector cleaners that come in small bottles. They only increase the gasoline detergency slightly, which, by the way is highly undesirable(!) as it softens any gum deposits from the fuel tank and piping, and get it ready to be redeposited at the fuel pressure regulator or the injector's tips, which can plug more easily. the "injector cleaner" will make it easier for gums and other deposits to pass across the fuel filter, only to redeposit farther away.
The BEST and ONLY recommended procedure is to REMOVE the injectors from the engine and take them to a well equipped cleaning lab, where the proper technician will inspect, electrically measure, and flow test them before and after cleaning them in an ultrasonic bath. Then the technician should replace the microfilters and replace the O-Rings and retest the cleaned injectors in order to check if they shut-off the fuel at pressure and prevent any leaking or dripping. ANY OTHER "cleaning procedure" will only transport dirt from the tank to the injectors. AVOID at all costs the use of solvent injector "cleaning" that burns the solvent with the engine running from a canister or cartridge: the solvents used are very carbon-rich (Xylene or Toluene types) and will guarantee a heavy sparkplug fouling, O2 senso fouling and cat converter fouling.
3) In some engines, the PCV system is not properly designed, so that a lot of oil vapors and gunk deposits in the inlet manifold or inlet valve ports. Some BMW dealers do perform a manual inlet manifold and inlet valve port cleaning procedure, where they remove the manifold and blast the inlet port with nutshell and high pressure air, aspirating the residues with a close coupled vacuum hose. The procedure is approved by the factory, but somewhat expensive and lenghty, as it requires to keep the valves closed during the blasting, then turning the engine to close the valves of the next cylinder, until all cylinders are done.
As described, the Hydrogen cleaning is quite effective, and if the engine was not terribly fouled with hard and thick carbon deposits, it cleans as well as opening the cylinders, in a much more practical and easy way. It needs to be performed properly and at least during 35-40 minutes at the proper H2+O2 flow. If the inlet manifold and valves are dirty, a manifold removal and manual cleaning is required, as the Hydrogen cleaning procedure only cleans from the combustion chamber to the exhaust, but leaves the inlet tract the same. Best Wishes!
Amclaussen, P.Eng.
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