Chod

Could anyone point me in the direction of pics of how to fit a K&N 57i induction kit. I'm getting one delivered tomorrow and will be ready to fit over the weekend.

Also, do I need to do anything after it is fitted eg ECU reset? Or will it run as well as it did before? I've installed K&N's on carb cars before and had to get them re-tuned, will the ECU do this automatically?

Thanks for any help given.

Terry

Matt Churchill

Terry, try Chiark's site - http://www.chiark.com/scooby/kandn.asp

[Edited by Matt Churchill - 4/24/2002 5:17:39 PM]

john banks

If it is MY99 or later don't reset. Again if MY99/00 you may end up with a lean spot during spool up and lose torque in exchange for a bit more up top. The more laminar flow may be causing the MAF to underread worsening a tendency on the standard MY99/00 to be a little lean there anyway. Be very careful with fitting and make sure it is secure and you don't shock the MAF sensor during fitting.

From Cobb tuning:
"While this air reversion might cause erroneous readings of the air flow meter, it's not solely responsible for their failure. No one situation can be contributed to the high failure rate seen with the 1999 series MAF sensors but rather a combination that is the cause. Our opinion is that the number one cause is vibration. Many of these aftermarket intake systems and even turbo kits do not properly mount the sensor in a way to prevent them from receiving quite a bit of vibration. As you drive, the engine bounces and vibrates around which is torture on the electronics inside the sensor. We've even seen some kits which bounced the MAF sensor against the engine bay whenever the engine torqued over. Other various reasons have to do with poor intake filtering, sudden pressure changes (ie: blow off valves shooting hot air into them from the back side), and heat.

How do we solve this? Well, we have to understand we're dealing with a delicate, precise piece of electronics that needs to be treated with some care. First, properly mount the unit firmly to the body and use rubber bushings between the MAF sensor mounting bracket and body to reduce vibration transferred through the body. For those of you who want to instead mount it to the engine, make sure you don't have a problem with the MAF sensor hitting anything else in the engine bay and use the same rubber bushing trick to dampen the constant vibration the engine produces. Second, use a quality filter element. Cloth elements from K&N, A'PEX, and others work well when properly oiled. Even foam elements from Amsoil, Greddy, and others do a fair job of filtering. We recommend against using HKS filters and Weapon-R filters as we've had too many instances of foam degrading and getting into the intake tract (they also don't filter very well). The absolute worst though are the Blitz Stainless Steel filters. These might look better than just using chicken wire but they filter about the same. Lastly, if you're turbocharged make sure you run a blow off valve but don't have it discharge right into the backside of the MAF sensor. It doesn't appreciate too much when you do that.

Do these things and you should enjoy a long (longer?) MAF sensor life."


[Edited by john banks - 4/24/2002 5:39:09 PM]

catflap

When they recond a blow off, is the standard one fine? ive always considered the standard to do its job well? is this the case of should people invest in an aftermarket one? any thoughts

well hung

John, who told you that a blitz filter filters like chicken wire. I was always under the impression that the dust retention was acceptable. I have heard that a blitz filter will filter as little as 10 microns, a figure which even scoobysport claim is acceptable. Mainly because they sell ITG panel crap and they are the figures which ITG must of given them. Secondly, anyone who knows the K&N myth will dissagree with the cotton filter being the best one of all. K&N filters only work when dirty. The filtering efficiency of a new K&N is dire until dust particles collect and seal the gaps in the fibre, thus lowering air flow. This is not my findings but was done by mira in an independant air filter test. I just hate the way everyone slags off stainless filters when most of the time they have no experience on the matter and are just taking someone elses point of veiw.
Cheers Ad.

KenG

That article was from Cobb Tuning, one of the most respected tuning outfits in the USA. I think they can be trusted to know what they are talking about. http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/

Ken

john banks

catflap they may be referring to people adding turbos to say a 2.5RS, and they seem to be favouring the original site of the dump valve.

Well hung - it is in quotes with the source mentioned. Take it up with them if you disagree - but they are not alone in their view in the Subaru community. I invite you to compare:

with this:

Needless to say in this particular review the Blitz was rated as poor filtration, the HKS very poor. The methods of this review have been criticised - of course they have - by those that sell Blitz no doubt!

[Edited by john banks - 4/24/2002 8:25:53 PM]

Chod

Thanks Matt, and all.

The car is a MY97. Kinda got me a bit worried about fitting one of these now. Anyone use one, and how do you find it?

Terry

The Man From Rangoon!

if u r concerned about dust particles passing thro the air filter,smear a thin film of grease all around the inside of your
intake hoses.
take your car for a good run,if any crud is being ingested,traces of it will be stuck to the grease.

john banks

Will some grease not then get ingested by your engine I would not want to be a bit of grease in a pipe running over 400 cubic feet per minute of air through it.

The MAF on MY97 is more robust so I doubt you are likely to have as many issues. I ran a K&N on a MY00 for a while and the MAF survived.

[Edited by john banks - 4/24/2002 11:28:57 PM]

Chod

Right, the K&N has arrived and I am fitting it on Friday afternoon. Any other advice before it is too late? (eg ECU reset afterwards?).

Cheers

Chod

john banks

Reset it on a 98 or before.

well hung

This seems very similar to the g trowner/t growner web site. If you are getting results from a tuning firm then the info is very likely to be bulls**t. More to that is the fact that cobb tuning is american where K&N completely rule the market, so therefore would sell K&N filters and try to put down any other filter. Add that to the fact that the test procedure was probably done with a vacuum cleaner( you may laugh but the above web site clearly has pictures of this, by the way it even has the same pictures as john has posted earlier), and there is normally no evidence of what grade of test dust was used or even if the dust was measured properly! Dont believe what you read or hear off others and as for smearing grease inside the air intake, dont be stupid. This grease would put a lining of crap all through the air intake which would reduce intake size, cause turbulence of air direction and most importantly collect large masses of fine harmless dust and turn them into larger harmful pieces which eventually drop off the grease and fall into the engine intake. And incase you think im some tit going on about something i know nothing about well i part own a performance air filter company. If you ever compared a test sample of a paper filter compared to ANY performance filter the results would be far worse than the make believe stuff posted above.

john banks

I supplied information in good faith and quoted the sources - the pictures are links to the original documents. I have seen/heard too many first hand reports of MAF failures with both Blitz and HKS cone filters with the Subaru MY99/00 MAF sensor. Everyone will have a different opinion especially if they have a commercial interest, and some have expressed completely opposite views on this very forum before about this issue. I do not have the time, interest, expertise or R&D facilities to personally test every air filter on the market. Neither do I often collect all my own data when tuning my own car on every product I use. If you have any data on the Blitz filter filtration and information on in the field multi thousand mile testing on MY99/00 Subarus it would be nice to see. I suspect the latter does not exist leaving decisions to incomplete information, conjecture and publicised experience. Since one can report most data to get it to "prove" what one wants, arguably all the tests are useless and we end up trusting "experts". Dodgy ground usually in any discipline - usually they are as biased and opinionated as the rest of us Your opinion on Blitz is obviously different - I'm fine with that, but mine hasn't changed so far.

Chod

Well, the deed has been done. I fitted the K&N this afternoon. Didn't have a problem fitting, took about an hour and a half.

Not done an ECU reset, will leave it for a bit to see how it goes.

Nice to hear the dump valve though!

Terry

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Little Note, Make sure that the filter is rotated so that it does not hit the bonnet vent or the brake lines underneath (as I found on my MY97) Also you may find that the connector on the MAF sensor may come off if it catches the bonnet. You'll know by the "kangaroo" effect when you boot it! Cable tie sorts it. Also think about removing the bonnet vent cover for improved cool air and noise!

Chod

I thought that removing the bonnet vent cover risks water getting into the filter?

Now that I can actually hear my dump valve, it is making the old milk bottle noise (leaking). It was doing it before I put the K&N on, but didn't notice it as much. Quite happy with the sound that I am getting from the standard dump valve, so may replace it with a standard one. Comments?

Also, when I get the dump valve replaced will I see an improvement in power?

Terry

Evildead

I ran K/N induction kit with bonnet covers removed.
3 weeks later i changed MAF due to failure...I don't know what happened, no visible damage on the MAF, could be the electronics, but now it runs just fine again with the covers in place.

Actually, i found the car to be more consistent with the covers in place. I think removing them actually drags more under-bonnet heat to the filter compared to having the covers in place.
Replace the vent with the air intake instead they sell at scoobymania, then we're talking

-Christer

well hung

Well there you go! A K&N filter that produced MAF failure! I thought you lot said K&N didnt make MAF failure! Should have bought a decent filter mate.

john banks

This is not new. There has been at least two previously reported MY99/00 MAF failures on cars running K&N on here, but they also go on the standard airbox. Are there any that haven't had a failure implicated - probably not? Blitz and HKS are not candidates any other offers?

Evildead

I'd just bought the car second hand, so i cannot say that
the K/N did something to my MAF, i also wash my car as everybody else does...go figure!

As someone pointed out to me, MAF:s fail frequently on std cars also, it might just have been hard luck.

I'm running the K/N again, now after MAF change, believe me, you'll hear from me if it fails again