Engine faliure how bad do you think?
15 April 2002, 10:59 PM
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Hey all i have buggered my engine. 
I'll tell you exactly what happened. I was traveling down the m1 at pace when i let off i got the dreaded knock knock knock pulled over imediatly car cut out. Tryed starting to get to services and it was very slow turn over so left it. I got home thanks to a very nice AA man whom took me the 80 odd miles home. I turn it over slightly and it just clicks. My water temp was normal, no oil is leaking and the cam belt is still intact. What is the likly damage? Is this repairable or do i go for a new engine? I personally think it's a big end problem. Is it worth removing the sump? can i see anything from there?
Cheers dudes.
I'll tell you exactly what happened. I was traveling down the m1 at pace when i let off i got the dreaded knock knock knock pulled over imediatly car cut out. Tryed starting to get to services and it was very slow turn over so left it. I got home thanks to a very nice AA man whom took me the 80 odd miles home. I turn it over slightly and it just clicks. My water temp was normal, no oil is leaking and the cam belt is still intact. What is the likly damage? Is this repairable or do i go for a new engine? I personally think it's a big end problem. Is it worth removing the sump? can i see anything from there?
Cheers dudes.
15 April 2002, 11:59 PM
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Sounds like big ends, scenario for failure sounds similar as usual as well. If you take the sump off, you should (may) be able to grip the bottom of the con rods which will probably have some play in it/them?
A bit vague I know... we've done a few recently. Hard o say without looking, if it's big end and nothing else is gone you could be looking anything up to £2K for repair.
Mike.
A bit vague I know... we've done a few recently. Hard o say without looking, if it's big end and nothing else is gone you could be looking anything up to £2K for repair.
Mike.
16 April 2002, 12:10 AM
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Cheers mike, i know it's not good. Is it worth just getting a second hand engine thrown in? I don't intend to keep the car long but i would want it to be sound engine wise. I've been offerd a engine for £1000 is this fair price? My other option is a recon for £1450 exchange. At 2k for rebuilding is there any point me touching this engine?
16 April 2002, 09:28 AM
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Crypt, its a good time to replace other bits in your engine ya know 
but if not then id go for a re build rather than a new engine, more expensive but it looks better than having a different number to the original one 
Tony
but if not then id go for a re build rather than a new engine, more expensive but it looks better than having a different number to the original one Tony
16 April 2002, 10:15 AM
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It's your choice really, if the recon engine is a good one, i.e. you're not getting one that's been treated worse than your own and has been repaired after blowing up then its worth looking at.
Other than that if you want it to be right engine wise, it may be better being repaired? Hard to guess the cost of repair as you can't tell what collateral damage has occurred as a result of the failure, (assuming it is a big end).
Don't forget, if you're going to swap engines, that you will also need to update your log book details with DVLA.
Mike.
Other than that if you want it to be right engine wise, it may be better being repaired? Hard to guess the cost of repair as you can't tell what collateral damage has occurred as a result of the failure, (assuming it is a big end).
Don't forget, if you're going to swap engines, that you will also need to update your log book details with DVLA.
Mike.
16 April 2002, 07:40 PM
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On the log book for my car where the engine number is, it says not known but the number is clearly visable on the engine. Imports for you ehh.
I'm going to whip the sump off see if i caan see anything obvious this evening.
I'm going to whip the sump off see if i caan see anything obvious this evening.
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16 April 2002, 07:56 PM
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Yup it is bad I will NEVER slate the name cosworth again. Not that i ever did. I just need to move on i have lost the faith fellow scoobynetters.
Jlang, guess what milage mine had?? 41,000.
Maybe this is why in japan they call the subaru engine the glass engine?
[Edited by cryptwalk - 4/16/2002 7:58:23 PM]
I will NEVER slate the name cosworth again. Not that i ever did. I just need to move on i have lost the faith fellow scoobynetters.Jlang, guess what milage mine had?? 41,000.
Maybe this is why in japan they call the subaru engine the glass engine?
[Edited by cryptwalk - 4/16/2002 7:58:23 PM]
16 April 2002, 11:01 PM
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I dont hear of any destroyed subaru engines but the most common ones seem to be the jap import ones for some strange reason most seem to be down to bad fuel and people who dont know what fuel to put in em (thus the reason i dont have a jap import unless i would have bought one from new and a remapped ecu to go with it )
Tony
most seem to be down to bad fuel and people who dont know what fuel to put in em (thus the reason i dont have a jap import unless i would have bought one from new and a remapped ecu to go with it )Tony
16 April 2002, 11:02 PM
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16 April 2002, 11:38 PM
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Tony. It's such a drivers car though it wanted to go more i'm convinced it was posessed! I'm off to mitsi next i'm afraid, more of a reliable source.
It's such a drivers car though it wanted to go more i'm convinced it was posessed! I'm off to mitsi next i'm afraid, more of a reliable source.
16 April 2002, 11:44 PM
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Sorry 2 hear this cryptwalk.
My import STi5 done the same thing just before christmas.
My bill was just over 2K but included a clutch as well.
I had the same questions to ask.
Put in another engine or repair the original but opted to repair the damaged one.
I would be interested to know what speed you were doing.
Could you mail me offline ? I can also tell you what speed mine cut out on as well (I was also travelling quick).
Andy.
My import STi5 done the same thing just before christmas.
My bill was just over 2K but included a clutch as well.
I had the same questions to ask.
Put in another engine or repair the original but opted to repair the damaged one.
I would be interested to know what speed you were doing.
Could you mail me offline ? I can also tell you what speed mine cut out on as well (I was also travelling quick).
Andy.
17 April 2002, 09:42 AM
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jlanng:
My STI4 which is quite heavily tuned is now on 62K miles.
Last dyno run was 348BHP, and it's still going strong.
Of course it could go pop tomorrow (or today even :-(), but I think it proves that tuning/Jap imports per-se are not self-destructive.
Sure I've had a few little problems:-
a) New clutch at 30K when the tuning exceeded the clutch ability
b) New Cyclinder Head Gaskets at 52K (to be expected with that power really, my Cossie did it at exactly the same mileage funnily enough)
c) Recent overhall of the turbo, as it was getting a bit loud and I didn't want it to go pop and pass it's bits through into the engine (the car goes much better after having the turbo balanced).
If its not all of them, then it must be something that triggers the 'going pop', perhaps one of:-
a) Wrong fuel
b) Abuse of engine when cold
c) Abuse of engine when hot (turning off engine when hot without letting it cool down for a minute or two)
d) Sustained high speed/bouncing off the rev limiter (my car has never been held at top speed for any extended period [i.e never been to Germany])
e) Poor engine build quality (I've heard of a few engines going pop due to swarf in the engine from original build up)
I'm sure you can all add to this list, but I think you see what I'm getting at.
I'm fascinated to know what the cause is though.
My STI4 which is quite heavily tuned is now on 62K miles.
Last dyno run was 348BHP, and it's still going strong.
Of course it could go pop tomorrow (or today even :-(), but I think it proves that tuning/Jap imports per-se are not self-destructive.
Sure I've had a few little problems:-
a) New clutch at 30K when the tuning exceeded the clutch ability
b) New Cyclinder Head Gaskets at 52K (to be expected with that power really, my Cossie did it at exactly the same mileage funnily enough)
c) Recent overhall of the turbo, as it was getting a bit loud and I didn't want it to go pop and pass it's bits through into the engine (the car goes much better after having the turbo balanced).
If its not all of them, then it must be something that triggers the 'going pop', perhaps one of:-
a) Wrong fuel
b) Abuse of engine when cold
c) Abuse of engine when hot (turning off engine when hot without letting it cool down for a minute or two)
d) Sustained high speed/bouncing off the rev limiter (my car has never been held at top speed for any extended period [i.e never been to Germany])
e) Poor engine build quality (I've heard of a few engines going pop due to swarf in the engine from original build up)
I'm sure you can all add to this list, but I think you see what I'm getting at.
I'm fascinated to know what the cause is though.
17 April 2002, 12:52 PM
#17
What about the thread that mentioned poor high speed aerodynamics -not enough air flow into the i/c at +130mph causing excessive charge temps. OK for short bursts but not sustained high speed....
F
F
17 April 2002, 03:59 PM
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Just had my UK spec let go ((((( 72000 miles. Had the car for a couple of years and the first time I gave it some real stick (150mph on the clock) it decided to cry enough.
Engine still runs and idles normally, small amount of oil under the car. Sounds like a bag of bolts are knocking around the engine. Dealer originally thought it was the hydraulic tensioner had failed but has taken the cam covers off and everthing intact.
Bills looks like being £3500-00 to fix (new short block, oil pump, oil cooler, gaskets etc).
Can anyone recomend someone in the London/SW who could rebuild/replace for less???
...and sorry for the thread hijack....
Alex
((((( 72000 miles. Had the car for a couple of years and the first time I gave it some real stick (150mph on the clock) it decided to cry enough.Engine still runs and idles normally, small amount of oil under the car. Sounds like a bag of bolts are knocking around the engine. Dealer originally thought it was the hydraulic tensioner had failed but has taken the cam covers off and everthing intact.
Bills looks like being £3500-00 to fix (new short block, oil pump, oil cooler, gaskets etc).
Can anyone recomend someone in the London/SW who could rebuild/replace for less???
...and sorry for the thread hijack....
Alex
17 April 2002, 04:06 PM
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Not exactly the right area, but these guys seem to have reconditioned engines a fair bit cheaper than what you've been quoted for a fix!
18 April 2002, 10:32 AM
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Floyd,
I take it you mean the older cars with the diagonal intercoolers?? i know the intercooler on my car (MY00) gets plenty of air but id also take into consideration the types of oil used too, i would rather have a fully synth oil in the engine as its better at higher temps than normal oils, thus reducing risk of things going wrong and ive had over 150 out of the car (kmh of course ) and been there for a while with no problems (runs mobil 1 motorsport fully synth oil).
The other option is to have one of those intercooler flow things that pushes the air onto the intercooler rather than just 1/2 - 3/4 of it, not a large job i believe
Tony
I take it you mean the older cars with the diagonal intercoolers?? i know the intercooler on my car (MY00) gets plenty of air
but id also take into consideration the types of oil used too, i would rather have a fully synth oil in the engine as its better at higher temps than normal oils, thus reducing risk of things going wrong and ive had over 150 out of the car (kmh of course ) and been there for a while with no problems (runs mobil 1 motorsport fully synth oil).The other option is to have one of those intercooler flow things that pushes the air onto the intercooler rather than just 1/2 - 3/4 of it, not a large job i believe
Tony
18 April 2002, 01:26 PM
#21
Tony
Right, here we go then (cracking knuckles)...
Unfortunately I don't mean the older cars with diagonal i/c's but ours as well MY99+00's. The aerodynamics for old cars and ours are roughly the same in this respect. I've even witnessed a 22B let go after a short 'blast' down a motorway.
The theory goes that the air flow lifts higher and higher off the front of the bonnet the faster you go, until it no longer enters the i/c aperture. You will also get greater pressure in front of the windscreen, you may notice that rain gathers on the back of the scoop and doesn't move very much at speed.
An i/c splitter will not have any effect as it won't aid air to enter the scoop. What these do is spread the air flow at much lower speeds (I've yet to measure the improvement/temp difference), at medium speeds and above there will be enough air in the i/c scoop for a splitter not to matter anyway.
Some people have reported that at very high speeds the cars with i/c water spray have actually seen the spray cloud come back out of the scoop!!! ie not going into the i/c at all....
A good oil like 15-30W Mobil motorsport and others, is a good preventative move IMHO, but I would be wary of doing any sustained high speeds especially in warm weather. If I were going abroad then I would have some sort of inlet temp monitor and probably an EGT as well (and fresh oil).
Maybe that's why the new STI has a bigger scoop and a splitter...best of both worlds.
F
Right, here we go then (cracking knuckles)...
Unfortunately I don't mean the older cars with diagonal i/c's but ours as well MY99+00's. The aerodynamics for old cars and ours are roughly the same in this respect. I've even witnessed a 22B let go after a short 'blast' down a motorway.
The theory goes that the air flow lifts higher and higher off the front of the bonnet the faster you go, until it no longer enters the i/c aperture. You will also get greater pressure in front of the windscreen, you may notice that rain gathers on the back of the scoop and doesn't move very much at speed.
An i/c splitter will not have any effect as it won't aid air to enter the scoop. What these do is spread the air flow at much lower speeds (I've yet to measure the improvement/temp difference), at medium speeds and above there will be enough air in the i/c scoop for a splitter not to matter anyway.
Some people have reported that at very high speeds the cars with i/c water spray have actually seen the spray cloud come back out of the scoop!!! ie not going into the i/c at all....
A good oil like 15-30W Mobil motorsport and others, is a good preventative move IMHO, but I would be wary of doing any sustained high speeds especially in warm weather. If I were going abroad then I would have some sort of inlet temp monitor and probably an EGT as well (and fresh oil).
Maybe that's why the new STI has a bigger scoop and a splitter...best of both worlds.
F
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