SCOSaltire

hi

i thought maybe someone could help here.
I have a my99 uk turbo... with the PPP.
when the car is warmed up (dont take her over 2500 when cold), my car stutters.. or misfires when accelerating from lower then 3200 revs.

the garage is trying to sort the problem... they think its something electrical...

have tried replacing the boost control solenoid (?) but that did not cure it.

they are gonna try new plugs / leads to see if thats it next...

what else could it be?
I thought it would be something electronic... like sensor(s) failing... but they say no... as no check engine light is on.

the problem is only noticable from 2800 to 3200 revs. surely this would be rearing its head elsewhere in the rev range too if electrical?

i read about the low load hesitation... so maybe the lambda sensor failing?

or maybe MAF sensor?

the car did start up on what sounded like 3 cyclinders when it was really cold at xmas... but thought that was due to condensation... and happened after using octane booster.

any thoughts?

SCOSaltire

top

john banks

Don't know. What is it doing on the boost gauge if you have one? Why did they replace the boost solenoid unless there was a boost problem?

SCOSaltire

dunno why they replaced it...
guess coz its at the point of starting to spool properly that it happens?

its getting worse...
seems to have lost its top end buzz a bit too.

thought durty maf sensor... or dodgy lambda..
i dont really know the workings of the car...

will be good when its sorted

SCOSaltire

dont have a boost guag im afraid
was on the shopping list until i ran outta money

EvoRSX

Spark Plugs aren't fouled are they. Sometimes what can happen is that with fouled spark plugs at certain engine conditions the spark is blown out. To solve this it's best to clean the plugs and possibly lower the gap. If the problem returns after a few hundred miles or so then your plugs are not geting up to the self cleaning temperature and so it's time to go for a warmer set of plugs.

Hope this helps

Andy

jmca

Being honest I have a the same symtoms with my scooby.

From experience I know the MAF sensor can get dirty without showing an ECU error code - but that usually results in bad idling where it won't settle. There's a thread on uneven idling in the general section that you can read to clean the MAF sensor & then discount that if the problem persists. - http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...d=74021&Page=2 My idling settled out fine after a cleaning.

Regarding the plugs - I took mine out & checked the gap, which I think the majority of people gap around 0.7 (from posts anyway)! I read previously that changing the gap to 0.6 & trying that to see if the problem either goes away or not as noticable - then it's a plug / coil pack problem. I have tried this as well but it's still there & doesn't seem to have alleviated any. Maybe you should try that anyway to see.

You mention the low load hesitation thread. This was lambda related http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=72773 posted by Steve Richards, which was very informative. Think this was diagnosed by the lambda outout reading a constant low voltage (hence lean) instead of fluctuating as it should. You could check the voltage from the sensor while it's closed loop mode.

I had this idea that maybe my injectors were very dirty & there's some info on that (with me asking the q's & getting some greast info back) on the big end thread http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...d=72098&Page=2 .

I think over the next few nights or the weekend I'm going to try & tackle the lambda suggetion & hopefully if time the injectors. Just getting the time is the problem.

Hope any of this helps. Post any results of things you do try though & I'll do same when I get a chance to tackle the above because this seems to be happening quite frequently on the bbs.

Regards

Johny.

jmca

SCOSaltire,

Did some testing with the Lambda sensor & now think this may be my problem.

Posted what I did & results I got & a few q's on the thread http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=75855

Regards

Johny

SCOSaltire

Thanks guys...
This is useful stuff!
some ideas to try out and narrow down..

around xmas, car did start on what sounded like 3 cyclinders... was after using the octane booster... so maybe the plugs were not up to it, and are still not quite right... i think its the first thing the garage is trying out...
back at xmas i posted about the 3 cyclinder starting prob... and someone mentioned maybe plugs... problem seemed to go away... but maybe it didnt

on idle, the car drones between 2 tones.. hardly noticeable on the rev counter...

my fuel consuption has gone up (or down, depending on how u look at it) .. i am getting less mpg... used to get 25, now get 22.

im reading ur other posts jmca.. with interest..

hope we both get it sorted.

SCOSaltire

got my car back today

first impressions... a bit smoother but still some stutter...

cant remember exactly what was wrong... but some air valve..
inlet or outlet.. i cant remember which..
ill see what happens tomorrow...

jmca

Can you keep me posted on any findings or solutions etc.

Regards

Johny

SCOSaltire

aye - thats what im doing

car did stutter today ... but was also very smooth too

gonna give it couple days and see what its like generally..

SCOSaltire

went roung to see dave yesterday ... had car on select monitor

there was an error code for maf sensor failure in the history
cleared it
voltage is varying on maf sensor..

when car was stuttering... ignition timing was being changed (think retarded)

T-uk

hi sco,

so has the MAF been cleaned or are you going to hit the dealer for a new one?

SCOSaltire

not worth cleaning...
they break too easily...
gonna point out the fluctuating maf sensor voltage to a dealer..
and tell them about the maf failure in the history

a subaru select monitor was used.. but not a main dealer.. how to tell main dealer?

john banks

Dodgy MAF leading to ignition timing then. It felt like the timing was being pulled when it hesistated. Get a new MAF out of the dealer - just tell them what was found on the select monitor - proper boost, dodgy MAF voltage and odd timing and demand a new MAF because they fitted a Ramair to your MY99 which is plain stupid and ill informed. Their fault - they fix it.

Also get them to clean out the airbox, replace with a proper Subaru filter (which they should pay for as it is their error!) and inlet tract if there is Ramair goo in there BEFORE they replace the MAF.

Dealers should know not to fit Ramair to MY99/00. If they get stroppy, just say you will contact IM about it and tell them their dealers are fitting non-Subaru approved for MY99/00 panel filters to their cars.

Funny this same dealer saying your car would det with a downpipe - mine doesn't Never heard of a MY99/00 PPP car detting with DP, and Scoobysport tested it thoroughly too.

I bet your MAF would've been safer with a K&N induction kit on rather than a Ramair, but they told me my engine would fail because of that as well.

They also said run on NUL to cure overboost and Bridgestone RE010! There is an unprintable word I might use about this sort of advice.

[Edited by john banks - 3/10/2002 1:31:48 PM]

SCOSaltire

did IM say to dealers not to use Ramair?
As i understand it... they used to fit them as prodrive 'upgrade'... then they stopped..
so something official must have happened... and thats the line id like to take..

good point about the warranty..

get them to clean out airbox and inlet tract?
and get std filter put in?

what other filters work well.. dave told me one that they do... but i cant remember the type now... metal something or other...

does an independant using subaru select monitor cause problems with warranty?

dont want to put me foot in me mouth

SCOSaltire

as another thought...

could this ramair filter have also caused the air outlet (or inlet) value to fail? that was replaced last week...

whats in the ramair filter that does this?

john banks

Don't know about the air inlet valve, but Ramair is not supposed to be fitted to MY99/00 cars even though it was part of the earlier PPP. I say about the cleaning because it can be gooey. If the goo is about in the inlet tract it could damage a new sensor. The only filter you should fit until your warranty work is all complete and you are happy with the car is the Subaru paper filter original. No others are warranted!

I can't see a problem with an independent checking you car with a select monitor. Not like they were modding it!

I can't find anything in the SIDC FAQ about Ram air filters and MY99/00 MAF failures - if search was only up on Scoobynet. Anyway, from all I have heard the official Subaru line is not to fit Ramair to MY99/00.

john banks

Did you have a Ram air too?

That seems to be the culprit here or a spontaneously failed MAF sensor?

WillieF

Yep I had a RAMAIR filter on. I spoke to Prodrive about it and they seemed relatively happy about it being on the car.

I don't think it is the culprit as the MAF was relativly clean last time i looked at it.

I had a Blitz stainless steel cone on the car for a while and I though that that was more likely to kill the MAF than the RAMAIR however I think I about to be proved wrong!!

john banks

Agree.

WillieF

Agree to what John?

john banks

Anything - I am not feeling argumentative today. Agree the Blitz may be the culprit, but Ramair have a bad press on here with MY99/00 too. Not sure you can tell the MAF is fine just by looking? Might be worth monitoring it on the select monitor, but as you are getting a new car ...

Dave Brown

I've tried a few different induction kits on my MY99 and had no MAF failure with the blitz SUS filter, thats why I recommend them on the 99/00 cars.We have just taken delivery of the new HKS metal flow kits (they look the biz ) and plan to test one out.

Dave

john banks

Nobody seems to be able to agree whether the HKS or Blitz cause MAF failures! Some swear that HKS killed a succession of MAFs and Blitz are OK, and some say the exact opposite Someone had a failure with a K&N on too recently. But who knows if that was the cause.

Dave Brown

John

I ran a HKS super power flow on mine for 3 months until the MAF failed.I ran a standard airbox again for a couple of weeks then refitted the HKS after cleaning the element making sure it was dry & oil free, lasted 2 weeks & went again.
Then after suffering an injector failure causing meltdown on no.2 cylinder, the dealer neglected to clean out all the induction pipework when the new short block was fitted.Car was back to them 2 days later with thick black smoke plooming out the back....another MAF please

Aaahhh the joys.....
Dave

SCOSaltire

no MAF sensor replaced
not even looked at - dispite my informing them of the findings...

the knock sensor was moved... what does that do?
didnt sort the problem
should it be moved back?

been told that they feel they are 'chasing a non-exsistant problem'

they did say that if someone else found something wrong then they would do the work underwarranty
isnt that what i just did?

anyone want my business? i am FED UP!

john banks

Pathetic. I felt it hesitating and it wasn't normal. Dave found the MAF voltage to be unstable you said. And you are still going around with a Ramair filter? I would speak to IM at this stage if I were you. They will probably tell you "They all do that". Well they don't all do that.

SCOSaltire

how do i check the filter to see what it is?
without breaking anything...

and how can i get a look at the maf sensor.. without breaking anything..

ill need idiot insructions

do u think that IM will say "They all do that"?

the garage did...
but we know they dont