Austrian Impreza

iTrader: (9)

Which models of classics using the R160 LSD units?
Can anyone help me out, please?
I do not want a plated diff, it has to be a "real" limited slip diff!
Many thanks!
Markus

911

Sti V3 = R160 with Viscous lsd i know for sure.

Sti RA's had plated rear diffs in general.

Expert is David at Welcome to the API website

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

All EU turbo's (3.5:1), WRX's(4.11:1) and non R180 STi's (mostly 4.44:1) have a viscous LSD rear or various ratios....as well as Forester Turbo's (4.44 or 4.11:1), Legacy turbo's (don't know the ratios - sorry) and SVX's (3.5:1).....so ther are a few about!

Plated LSD (Hitachi OE or various AM such as Cusco) is vastly superior to a viscous coupling, which is why the Group N homologation STi's used them!

Simon

Austrian Impreza

iTrader: (9)

are viscous lsd units better than the plated ones?

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

They are different...

A plate will provide more lockup and more precision of responce (repeatability) a VC is more progressive and less likley to be felt in operation, but a properly set up plated diff can have many characteristics set for the way the driver wants it to behave (through ramp angles and preload) while a VC is always working the same in both directiosn (on power and off power) for example..

I've bought a Cusco I'm rebuilding to replace a VC, so I may be biased!

Simon

P.S. I used to work in the transmission department at Ricardo, who bought out FFD the inventors of the VC, my plate diff advice comes from a diff builder at Prodrive who worked on the GroupN and WRC diffs.....

Austrian Impreza

iTrader: (9)

I think this page has some very good informations in it!
http://www.mycaterham.com/66828/117416.html

Hope you enjoy reading!

Now I´m able to see what kind of diff it is from outside!

But what is a plated diff, it seems as it is an open one...
A visco unit should improof handling over the plated one, isn´t it, or do I understand this wrong?

911

A subaru Visc diff is very smooth, almost 'un felt' bt the driver.
It is a large 'module' about 80mm dia x 60 long right inside the diff carrier.

In racing terms ie competition, they are not very effective. On the road, they are very nice.

A plated diff is a series of small clutch plates in the centre of the diff running in the oil of the diff.

They are clamped togeher i to a pre load that the diff technician can set as loose (hardly any lsd ) or bloody tight = near locked axle.

You can certainly hear/feel a tight plated diff on the road when going round a tight slow bend. You can think it's broken at first.

However, does it ever work when driving hard!

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

A properly set up plate diff for the road doesn't have to be like that, Ford Capri, BMW E30 M3, Skyline GTR, Toyota Altezza all have plate diffs which are fine, its all about getting the preload and ramps right for the application...generally a low preload for the road!

however yes, the plated diff is similar to a VC in having alternate plates geared to the diff average speed (casing) and an output shaft that resists the shaft spinning faster than the average for its limited slip effect, the VC is purely speed (between case and shaft) related with increasing resistance over time as the fluid gets hot, a plate diff uses the ramps to increase resistance with applied torque.

Simon

911

Mine was set for hillclimbing so tight, and it hasn't eased off over the 12 months it's been in (2000 miles).
Works well though.

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

No if yours isset up for hillclmbing it will be clunky as you will run quite a lot of preload!

Simon

911

That is so!
In the paddock people have asked if my rear diff is broken as the noise and the juddering with the dccd 'on' is disconceting...

On the track as the car flows I cannot hear it but I'm probably too scared at the time to worry.

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't surprise me, typical preload for a road diff is about 25-30Nm (so with one wheel off the ground the other shaft gets about that much torque until the ramps start to increase the load) the Prodrive built diffs for Group N cars ran about 90Nm from memory - will ask my contact!

Simon

Austrian Impreza

iTrader: (9)

Okay now I know how it all works and have got another question, how much better is a suretrack reardiff?

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

For a roadcar the suretrack is a beaut, nice smooth operation and reasonable torque transfer, and more consistant than a VC, however with a wheel in the air, the suretrack is just as bad as a VC, that is where a plate, however low the preload, will always be better!

Simon

Shark Man

Very true. Two examples of plated LSDs I have that are like chalk and cheese:

One is the Powrlok unit on a Jag XJ-S v12...which is very loose (probably a bit worn out too ). Generally behaves lika an open diff, so doesn't give any issues on the road, but has just enough lock-up to keep drive to both wheels at times when little traction is available. Tight turns are no issues, tyres last ages without scrubbing.

The other is the LSD unit on the rear of a LS2 Monaro. Which is an evil son a b*tch. Very tight, with little progression. Tyres will scrub and squeel when making tight turns (no matter how slow), and they wear out like crazy. Although power is always at both wheels regardless of available grip, sometimes a good thing, other times something to be very aware of.

911

If the rear lsd (plated) is really tight it will resist turn-in, but I've never 'sensed' that in my Impreza.

Adam K

It's a while ago now that I read about the suretrack, I have been told my inner wheel spin very fast when it's airborn i tight turns (donuts, *cough*), as I recall the power would be transferred to the slower wheel, but what/why is it no better than a VC with a wheel in the air?

farmerpete

My RWD legecy is running a Viscious LSD it is good to drive but I'm on the lookout for a mecanical LSD for fun and games (car is still on the road). But my 3.9 Viscious LSD was out of a pre 1993 Turbo Legecy. The 92 GT auto Legecy also has a 4.44 V LSD from memory if that helps.

chris_wrx

iTrader: (4)

ive got a kaaz 1.5 way lsd that is really tight and clunky though it was broken but im guessing its not????

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Adam - the Suretrack is worse than a VC with a wheel in the air, but very good if you keep both wheels with some grip, much like a VC and in some repects better, in others worse..

The Kaaz is very clunky, Cusco is the one to look at, the RS with coil springs has a low preload and is very progressive for road use, the bellville washer (conical spring - which is what the Kaaz and Hitachi OE diffs use) type has much more preload and is clunkier, if you want to soften a Kaaz there are various ways to reduce the preload such as removing plates or grinding the washer a bit thinner.

Simon

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