MY01 rolling road results?
29 October 2001, 03:46 PM
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PPP cars are around the 240bhp mark. PPP with the full system is around 260bhp.
PPP torque figures are around 230-235lb and around 250lb with the full system.
BHP figures are close to those quoted, but torque isn't.
[Edited by Pete Croney - 10/29/2001 3:47:01 PM]
PPP torque figures are around 230-235lb and around 250lb with the full system.
BHP figures are close to those quoted, but torque isn't.
[Edited by Pete Croney - 10/29/2001 3:47:01 PM]
29 October 2001, 04:33 PM
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Thanks Pete. Considering your car's excellent showing in the EVO TDCOTY I'm amazed you were making 'only' 244bhp 233ftlb 
. My old RR conspiracy theory is competitors products rarely do well on, shall we say, biased RR's. Did the car only 'feel' that much more powerful by your 'seat of the pants' dyno when you first fitted your system?
Ta
Chuck
. My old RR conspiracy theory is competitors products rarely do well on, shall we say, biased RR's. Did the car only 'feel' that much more powerful by your 'seat of the pants' dyno when you first fitted your system?Ta
Chuck
29 October 2001, 05:30 PM
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Hi Chuck
It did feel quicker, there's no two ways about it. And it acquired serious mid range punch.
Since those figures, it has had the up pipe fitted and that has made a bigger difference than I was expecting, it has also done another 15k and is nicely loosened up.
At the EVO TDCOTY test they couldn't believe it was the same car as their long termer
If it had gone on average lap times, not the one best lap (out of 5), my car was within a second of the Noble, but most of this sort of track speed is down to handling, which is why the Elise and VX220 weren't far behind.
It did feel quicker, there's no two ways about it. And it acquired serious mid range punch.
Since those figures, it has had the up pipe fitted and that has made a bigger difference than I was expecting, it has also done another 15k and is nicely loosened up.
At the EVO TDCOTY test they couldn't believe it was the same car as their long termer
If it had gone on average lap times, not the one best lap (out of 5), my car was within a second of the Noble, but most of this sort of track speed is down to handling, which is why the Elise and VX220 weren't far behind.
29 October 2001, 08:40 PM
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I had mine done on sunday too, as I thought I had a fault with the valve from the superchip. Suspicions confirmed with the dip at 4000-4500RPM.
MY01 Wagon
Magnex Exhaust (Back+Centre)
K&N Panel Filter
Superchip (19psi Max/17psi Held)
270BHP@6089RPM
[img}http://www.wjwain.com/my01-281001.gif[/img]
MY01 Wagon
Magnex Exhaust (Back+Centre)
K&N Panel Filter
Superchip (19psi Max/17psi Held)
270BHP@6089RPM
[img}http://www.wjwain.com/my01-281001.gif[/img]
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29 October 2001, 09:00 PM
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WJW wrote
************************************************** *****************
I had mine done on sunday too, as I thought I had a fault with the valve from the superchip. Suspicions confirmed with the dip at 4000-4500RPM.
MY01 Wagon
Magnex Exhaust (Back+Centre)
K&N Panel Filter
Superchip (19psi Max/17psi Held)
270BHP@6089RPM
hopefuly with your picture
************************************************** *****************
Pete
************************************************** *****************
I had mine done on sunday too, as I thought I had a fault with the valve from the superchip. Suspicions confirmed with the dip at 4000-4500RPM.
MY01 Wagon
Magnex Exhaust (Back+Centre)
K&N Panel Filter
Superchip (19psi Max/17psi Held)
270BHP@6089RPM
hopefuly with your picture
************************************************** *****************
Pete
30 October 2001, 10:18 AM
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chuck, have you driven the fat okld one and the svelte new one back to back?
Was just hoping for a comparison.
You have to ask, why didnt I ring you, and speak on the phone about this.
Oh, I still can.
Was just hoping for a comparison.
You have to ask, why didnt I ring you, and speak on the phone about this.
Oh, I still can.
30 October 2001, 10:31 AM
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WJW
That graph dip looks like ECU was dialling serious amounts of retardation to counter act "det".
I would get it checked with a Select Monitor or someone with det cans ASAP.
That graph dip looks like ECU was dialling serious amounts of retardation to counter act "det".
I would get it checked with a Select Monitor or someone with det cans ASAP.
30 October 2001, 10:34 AM
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Yeah Adam. I've recently re-run in the 22B , so had a 4k rpm /minimum boost limit, and I;m running the bugeye in under the same conditions. Thats where the lack of torque the PPP seems to be showing is scaring me. The widearse was still impressive under 4k revs, the standard bugeye ain't. I'm hoping the PPP remidies that somewhat. Of course the feeling of insulation from the sound and perhaps smoother power of the bugeye is deceptive. If I;m gonna pay £1.6k on a PPP I need to know it's worth it...hmmmm back to the dealers for another test drive I guess LOL What a pointless thread I've created!
Chuck
, so had a 4k rpm /minimum boost limit, and I;m running the bugeye in under the same conditions. Thats where the lack of torque the PPP seems to be showing is scaring me. The widearse was still impressive under 4k revs, the standard bugeye ain't. I'm hoping the PPP remidies that somewhat. Of course the feeling of insulation from the sound and perhaps smoother power of the bugeye is deceptive. If I;m gonna pay £1.6k on a PPP I need to know it's worth it...hmmmm back to the dealers for another test drive I guess LOL What a pointless thread I've created! Chuck
30 October 2001, 11:07 AM
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Hi Guys,
have a look at these figures.
MY01 with APS full exhaust, APS T.M.I.C. , ITG Filter , Mapped Unichip
There was no retarding of ignition caused by detonation during the mapping. We have done the mapping with the Select Monitor on site and saw no knocks!
We have a great lambda and boost curve but could not explain the ups and downs in the torque curve.
We suppose the small flaps in the inlet manifold responsible for this unsteady curve as they will struggle in the air stream maybe??
Normaly, these small flaps should improve the emmissions during the cold start phase and should be open wide under normal conditions, that's a statement of Subaru Germany....
Any other ideas which could cause this behaviour?
"LINK" Bob ? Don't you want to teach us your Link knowledge in Germany perhaps ;-) ??
http://www.wrx-gt.de/Diagramme/WRX-258PS-Ladedruck.pdf
http://www.wrx-gt.de/Diagramme/WRX-258PS-Lambda.pdf
Bye
Frank :-)
30 October 2001, 01:44 PM
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May be I ought to start a new thread for this but ....
You guys just don't like superchips at all do you. I know there are other ways to obtain BHP/Torque increases using replacement ECU's but, as a layman, I had to rely on information from the supplier at the time. However, I've used the superchip on my old MY98 for 2 years - no problems (with similar gains in BHP/Torque), so the proof of reliability is surely there.
I have had the car back in for checking out today and Kev@Well Lane replaced the piping and re-routed the valve through the restrictor, rather than through the boost controller solenoid (jargon above my head). I'm told there is still boost cut off protection, so am I still going to go BANG!!!.
Here's the latest graph since the mods
<IMG src='http://www.wjwain.com/my01-301001.gif'>
You guys just don't like superchips at all do you. I know there are other ways to obtain BHP/Torque increases using replacement ECU's but, as a layman, I had to rely on information from the supplier at the time. However, I've used the superchip on my old MY98 for 2 years - no problems (with similar gains in BHP/Torque), so the proof of reliability is surely there.
I have had the car back in for checking out today and Kev@Well Lane replaced the piping and re-routed the valve through the restrictor, rather than through the boost controller solenoid (jargon above my head). I'm told there is still boost cut off protection, so am I still going to go BANG!!!.
Here's the latest graph since the mods
<IMG src='http://www.wjwain.com/my01-301001.gif'>
30 October 2001, 05:26 PM
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Frank,
Those are interesting graphs...
The tumble valves in the inlet tract are unlikely to be causing you any problems. As you say, they are designed to speed up the airflow into the head during cold starts to stop fuel dropping out of the mixture. When the engine warms up, they are moved to 90deg to the airflow, and don't cause much restriction.
The ECU will give you a check engine error if the motor controlling the tumble valves fails (position sensing).
I bet that the ECU is 'fighting' the changes you are trying to make via the unichip... can you capture actual spark timing from a Sun diagnostic tuning computer or similar? I bet you'll find your ignition timing swinging all over the place
. P.S. My german isn't too good - can you translate the graph labels? (I can spot the power and torque curves 
.
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 10/30/2001 5:29:53 PM]
Those are interesting graphs...
The tumble valves in the inlet tract are unlikely to be causing you any problems. As you say, they are designed to speed up the airflow into the head during cold starts to stop fuel dropping out of the mixture. When the engine warms up, they are moved to 90deg to the airflow, and don't cause much restriction.
The ECU will give you a check engine error if the motor controlling the tumble valves fails (position sensing).
I bet that the ECU is 'fighting' the changes you are trying to make via the unichip... can you capture actual spark timing from a Sun diagnostic tuning computer or similar? I bet you'll find your ignition timing swinging all over the place
. P.S. My german isn't too good - can you translate the graph labels? (I can spot the power and torque curves .Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 10/30/2001 5:29:53 PM]
31 October 2001, 08:00 AM
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Hi Adam
my english isn't so good as well ;-) so which labels do you mean?
The behaviour is discussed with APS now as well and we will compare their settings with ours.
Unfortunately I cannot capture actual spark timing, for that purpose I have to go to the rolling road again.
I'll keep you informed about the results ....
Concerning the graphs of WJW we have seen a few WRX MY01 with similar figures with the same loss off power @4000-4500 RPM.
I aggree with you that the MY01 ECU "plays" a little bit around with some values for any reasons...
But how to teach "her" not to do that??
Frank :-)
my english isn't so good as well ;-) so which labels do you mean?
The behaviour is discussed with APS now as well and we will compare their settings with ours.
Unfortunately I cannot capture actual spark timing, for that purpose I have to go to the rolling road again.
I'll keep you informed about the results ....
Concerning the graphs of WJW we have seen a few WRX MY01 with similar figures with the same loss off power @4000-4500 RPM.
I aggree with you that the MY01 ECU "plays" a little bit around with some values for any reasons...
But how to teach "her" not to do that??
Frank :-)
31 October 2001, 08:13 AM
#19
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Chuck
Everyone says how slow the MY01 is.
On the Ring of Cambridge run Sunday I had a MY01, identical mech. spec and mileage to mine following me (and mine is only 3500 miles). Out of every rural 30 limit into the GLF's I was nailing it in second and third, and we (two up) were slowly pulling away from the MY01 behind (one up).
HOWEVER, the interesting thing was that we were BOTH pulling away from a 40,000 mile full SS exhausted MY00
- EVERY time!
As you/Pete know I have researched the PPP (and Link) issue.
I put the turbo up-pipe on long after the rest of the system and can confirm as Pete says it does make a noticeable difference. I drive mine and Carolyn's (twice my mileage) back to back; before the up pipe hers was faster, now mine is.
Re the PPP, as you know Prodrive/Subaru dealers will not touch any car with anything but a standard exhaust on. The PPP only removes the centre cat and backbox. Without a doubt it is the d/p and particularly, I believe, the cat in the up pipe that are strangling the torque figures on the PPP MY01's.
Pete had a PPP MY01 in with his full exhaust on (but up pipe cat in place). It was spiking right on the det limits of the ECU map. Interestingly the up pipe cat bypass pipe knocked about two degrees (IIRC) of advance off and calmed the whole thing down. Prodrive have, I am sure, tested all these options of course and is why they will only warrant the PPP with their exhaust bits on.
The upshot is that if you want to keep a warranted car (i.e. PPP with no other mods) then it is going to have a very conservatively mapped ECU in it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, horses for courses etc.
Option 2 is PPP with full decat - but no warranty.
Now, option 3 - full SS system, plus H&S equal length headers, plus Link.....300bhp plus
[Edited by Dave T-S - 10/31/2001 8:43:31 AM]
Everyone says how slow the MY01 is.
On the Ring of Cambridge run Sunday I had a MY01, identical mech. spec and mileage to mine following me (and mine is only 3500 miles). Out of every rural 30 limit into the GLF's I was nailing it in second and third, and we (two up) were slowly pulling away from the MY01 behind (one up).
HOWEVER, the interesting thing was that we were BOTH pulling away from a 40,000 mile full SS exhausted MY00
- EVERY time!As you/Pete know I have researched the PPP (and Link) issue.
I put the turbo up-pipe on long after the rest of the system and can confirm as Pete says it does make a noticeable difference. I drive mine and Carolyn's (twice my mileage) back to back; before the up pipe hers was faster, now mine is.
Re the PPP, as you know Prodrive/Subaru dealers will not touch any car with anything but a standard exhaust on. The PPP only removes the centre cat and backbox. Without a doubt it is the d/p and particularly, I believe, the cat in the up pipe that are strangling the torque figures on the PPP MY01's.
Pete had a PPP MY01 in with his full exhaust on (but up pipe cat in place). It was spiking right on the det limits of the ECU map. Interestingly the up pipe cat bypass pipe knocked about two degrees (IIRC) of advance off and calmed the whole thing down. Prodrive have, I am sure, tested all these options of course and is why they will only warrant the PPP with their exhaust bits on.
The upshot is that if you want to keep a warranted car (i.e. PPP with no other mods) then it is going to have a very conservatively mapped ECU in it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, horses for courses etc.
Option 2 is PPP with full decat - but no warranty.
Now, option 3 - full SS system, plus H&S equal length headers, plus Link.....300bhp plus
[Edited by Dave T-S - 10/31/2001 8:43:31 AM]
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