AlanS

I have a problem with my TSL Pulse Extraction Exhaust System. Does anyone else have one of these systems fitted? Do you also have this problem?

Basically, this latest TSL system is a push-fit design with 2 tension springs anchored either side of the pipe joins. There are two joins [centre and back] so 4 springs in total.

If you drive with your windows down you can hear the springs slapping against the exhaust piping every time you hit anything uneven on the road . This can be constant rattling on a bad road.

I had my system fitted in Feb but only recently noticed this really annoying rattle when the weather turned warmer and the windows came down . There is no noise to be heard when the windows are up.

I've spoken to Gavin at TSL but he says i'm the first to have mentioned this.

What do I do?

1. Lag/wrap the exhaust in the areas where the springs slap?
2. Lag/wrap the springs?
3. Bend the hook holes for the springs with a blow-torch, away from the exhaust body so that the distance between the spring body and exhaust body is increased?

or

4. Insist that TSL look at this design problem and get them to come up with a solution?

please advise...

simo

as you are only Nottingham based I would go back to TSL & ask them to look at it. If there is a problem with the design you should give them a chance to fix it. If you start messing with it yourself then you will have no chance of them fixing it as they can claim that you have altered it.

give them a call & book your car in m8

AlanS

Thanks simo

Before I book it in with TSL I want to establish whether this problem is an inherent design fault or just unique to my system. If anyone has this system I would really appreciate some feedback.

It was Gavin who suggested using the blow-torch to move the hook holes

4X4BOB

Is it just me that thinks that looks like a p!ss poor bodge job of securing the exhaust? I bit of bent wire tacked onto the pipe - you'd have thought they'd have made it a bit more substantial, as it stand it looks like it wont stand the test of time too well. So much for "design"

SyHightower

iTrader: (1)

agreed. the normal bolt system looks much better IMHO

4X4BOB

And this new "design" feature will be a hell of a lot cheaper to produce than a proper sealing flange fitment - and hence more profit for the supply company!

john banks

Slip joints in exhausts or headers, simply a nightmare IMHO. I've resorted to welding them up, or using a strong clamp over the female end of the slip joint with a tight fit, lots of exhaust paste. Seems to work for a year or so at a time

Trouble is you weld it up and you have a massive exhaust section like I have that is pointless in selling as it is difficult to post being many feet long, but they don't leak

highlander68k

The exhaust system has been designed with 'rally' in mind. (and a lot cheaper )

No flanges = less to catch on when on a 'rally stage'
Slip-jointed = easy removal when time is of the essence nn the service area.

Without question, you should ask TSL to rectify the problem before doing anything else. If they say no, then you may have to think about option 1 or 3. Or buy some shorter, stronger springs.

AlanS

Does anyone else have this system from TSL. Do your springs also rattle with the windows down?

Abbylad

iTrader: (4)

how much did you pay for it? about a pound i hope

AlanS

Unfortunately no. I bought it as part of their £2100 Triple 3 [PPP equivilent] package, but I think the exhaust system itself is £1000. It's a 76mm high flow sports Cat system... with rattling springs.

simo

[QUOTE=AlanS I think the exhaust system itself is £1000. It's a 76mm high flow sports Cat system... with rattling springs. [/QUOTE]

Alan, call them & get it resolved. Let us know how you get on.

best of luck, Simon

4X4BOB

Don't like the 3" system on scoobs, causes too much lag for my liking. I went for a 2 1/2" system (full de-cat including removal of up-pipe cat) and it starts boosting from 1500rpm and is on full boost by 2500rpm.
Cost me a fraction of that TSL system and it doesn't rattle !
Mate went for a full 3"(exhaust) and by his own admission my motor is by far better/quicker.

AlanS

[QUOTE=simo]Rattle resolved but not sure the issue is though.

Firstly, took car to ScoobyMania this morning and they checked the exhaust out on the ramp. Diagnosed that the exhaust system was fine and that the rattle was coming from the tension springs, as suspected. Suggested that the springs were too slack in design. Advised shorter springs.

So, then I rang TSL this afternoon and discussed with a guy on the phone that I wanted to book the car in and that the problem should be covered by the warentee. He needed to speak to Graham, and then call me back.

Return call never came.

I gave it an hour, then rang TSL and spoke to Graham.

He said the springs had been stretched and because the exhaust had previously been removed [by TSL I might add] then that was the cause. He assured me that there was no design flaw in the exhaust system as he designed it. But he then went on to say that the springs weren't necessary and that they could be removed.

When I asked, in that case, what the purpose of the springs were other than to rattle, the reply was "their there as overkill, they can be removed".

He then went on to suggest that I could bend the lugs away from the exhaust to prevent the rattling.

I got the distinct impression that he felt it wasn't his problem.

So I drove the car to Kwick-Fit, ramped up the car, and they took the springs off for me in less than 30 seconds.



Now these springs are not stretched. I tested the tension myself before they were removed by twanging them, at Qwik-fit.

However the problem is solved because there is now no annoying rattle. The issue is whether I should replace the springs with new one from TSL [if they will sell me some] or source some shorter springs that will do the job or leave them off altogether?

simo

lol, nice customer service, not their problem by the sound of it? If you have no joy sourcing them locally & want to give me the wire dia & the length that you want I can prob sort some out from a supplier of us.

cheers Simon

4X4BOB

If those springs in the photo are the actual ones removed from your exhaust then IMHO they are the wrong type of spring.
I was a senior technician in the motor trade many years ago and the exhaust springs in them days were of a special design. Basically there would be a open coil spring with a hoop of steel fitted in through each end that hooked around the opposite end on the spring, the effect was so that the spring was in compression rather than in tension as is the case with the springs you have. It gave a substantially better fitment and did not suffer from rattles IIRC.
Did Kwik-Fit have any "proper" exhaust springs in their stock that you could have fitted in place of the TSL springs?

Not good that TSL are washing their hands of the situation. And just because Graham designed it (did he do that on the back of a beer mat over a quick pint?) does not mean that it is a good design job!

AlanS

simo, you're a star man.

Currently these springs are 10mm diameter.
The spring body is 55mm.
The total length of spring body and hooks is 85mm

I would like to obtain 4 springs please of the following dimensions:
10mm diameter.
45mm spring body length
The total length of spring body and hooks would now be 75mm

I think the reduction of 10mm length would give a really tight fit and loads of tension. There shouldn't then be any slack to slap the exhaust body.

I'd really appreciate it if you could help me source these.

cheers
Alan

simo

yhpm

Spam_J

iTrader: (2)

Hi Alan, I'm really sorry you're unhappy with the system and Graham didn't call you back within the hour. Unfortunately we're struggling to keep up with emails and the phones this week, but by no means are we washing our hands of this, sorry if you got that impression.

To date we've sold in excess of 25 of these exhausts (mostly to Subaru dealers) which are based on our homologated Group N rally design, but with a larger bore. As far as we know, none of the other systems are exhibiting a similar problem.

Did the exhaust have this problem when we first fitted it? It could be that the mounts got bent in transit enough to cause a problem when the car (minus exhaust IIRC) was being transported away from us.

The springs are not completely necessary, they are really only there to aid installation of the push fit joints (i.e. when you're on your back in the rally services!). Once its all aligned and the slip joints gas tight - the springs can be removed. However, if you want to keep them then have a go at bending the spring mounts out slightly to increase the tension on them, if that's no good then give us a call and we'll do our best to sort this out

AlanS

Thanks for your response. My initial post was to merely locate other owners of your system to see if they had a similar problem and to gather any useful feedback regarding a solution.

As I first mentioned I was unaware of the noise because the noisy rattling is only apparent when the windows are down and hence only highlighted during the recent warm weather. It then became one of those really annoying things that you just want to get sorted out. The more it rattles the more frustrated I was becoming. I was even deliberatly driving over uneven road to make it rattle just to convince myself it was coming from the exhaust system.

As it became apparent it was the springs, I posted pictures to shed light on my problem.

On the advice of Graham I have removed the springs and the rattle has gone.

This suggests that:

a. The springs are not under enough tension. This could be due to them having been over-streched [as suggested by Graham] but I can assure you that they are all rock solid and all of equal length, or they are simply not up to scratch for the job.

b. The luggs are angled too close to the exhaust body and hence need to be bent outwards. [They are all currently bend to the same degree]

This brings me to my final point:

I have spent in the region of £1000 on an exhaust system that rattles. It stops rattling when the springs are removed. But if I want to sell the car on, I want the system to be as it was designed, i.e. springs on.

As you can see I am trying to source four new springs that will do the trick after it became obvious from Graham that TSL weren't going to help.

It wasn't until I mentioned that it was a warrenty issue and could I be supplied with four new springs that Graham side stepped with his suggestion that that weren't necessary anyway. I would much preferred the suggestion that four new springs would be mailed out straight away.

I thank-you for your offer of assistance.

S.O.S. I'm still looking for four new springs...

7 Foot

I like TSL and have spent a few grand there over the years but Graham's arrogance can be shocking.

TBH in my experience their customer service has always been second to none but, I would imagine, Graham opening his mouth in a Prince Phillip stylee does make it hard for his minions to cope.

It's hard to tell the boss he's being a prat. Far easier to hop onto Scoobynet and sort it all out.

simo

^^^^^^

A fair comment imho.Lets hope he reads this, it might open his eyes up a little

Spam_J

iTrader: (2)

Alan, not a problem - quite happy to get some new springs in the post for you - I'll do that today. On comparing the new springs here with your photos they look approx 3mm shorter so the length difference is minimal. I'd love to give you some shorter versions but unfortunately we can only get them in this fixed length.

Give them a go, but if new springs don't sort the rattling out (I have my doubts as yours look fairly healthy), the springs simply need to be moved further away from the exhaust itself, so the mounts need to be 'persuaded' outwards with a little a gentle tweak (an adjustable spanner/sturdy pair of pliers should do the trick). As the pulse extraction systems are hand-made perhaps a small amount of adjustment in your particular case might be needed. I'm very suprised it left our workshop with a problem like this, all I can do is apologise and offer you any help I can - we'll get there in the end

AlanS

Thank-you very much Spam J - four springs arrived this morning.

I'll get them fitted on Monday and give you some feedback

many thanks

AlanS

p1doc

that is better service, i have had several dealings with tsl and they are expensive but worth it graham does speak his mind which can be a good or bad thing-he warned me off doing further mods cheaply stating the obvious which makes a change from someone saying yeah no probs and bang
martin

wrc350bhp

tsl, the s stands for saab that says it all, had a go in their 333 not much diff to sti ppp which i had then i went in rcm 350 diff is night and day cost a bit more but well worth it

7 Foot

I've got no idea what you are talking about.

911

Easy translation:
TSL originally and still deal in SAABs, selling/fixing etc
They do a modified Scooby called the 333 due to the BHP it is tuned to deliver.
Subaru have a tuning package for their cars developed by Prodrive (the ppp bit) which is a mild upgrade compared to some others.
RCM is Roger Clarke Motorsport and their tuned Impreza in his opinion is significantly better than the TSL (and presumably the PPP too) even though the cost is a little more.

Graham