Bartop

Hi chaps..
I have a My05 WRX with PPP and wondering what my next performance upgrade could be...
I realise I'm gonna blow the warranty but I'd want to keep the original parts so I could put it back to stock come trade in time I also don't want to go down a full decat route.

What I'm considering is getting a second hand freeflow cat from an Sti PPP which I believe replaces the downpipe section.
Then sourcing a second hand ecu and getting it remapped and keeping the prodrive one to put back on later.

So here's the questions...

Is this going to be worthwhile ? How much extra would I likely get ?

Would I just be able to go for the sports cat or would I really need a remap - problems with overboosting etc ?

Will I need an uprated fuel pump as well ?

Any issues with taking the WRX engine up over 265bhp without doing any other internals ?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm sure people have been through this route before

Cheers

MaDaSS

As far as i know, there is no way to get a WRX over 265 without more mods than you specify. I have an MY03 WRX which is rolling roaded at 268 bhp with 266 ib/ft, and has more mods than your PPP. I have been told by more than one Scooby garage that the TD04 turbo is maxed out, and is not worthwhile trying for more unless i change that and other things.
IMHO, i dont see any reason for you to do anything. Stick with it, and mod your next one. The next steps require some nice funding to get better bhp than you already have.
And it cost me a lot more than a PPP to get my poxy output.

Bartop

Cheers mate - had forgot about the turbo :doh:

I think you're right - Probably what I'll do is keep it for another 9 months and maybe put some prodrive springs on to satisfy my modding urges for now and then chop it in for a low mileage My05 JDM Sti

Thanks for the advice...

MaDaSS

Now the springs That was one of the best things i ever did, seriously.
Changed the car in such a way, really good buy, and the handling is superb.
I had the Eibach ones though, but go Prodrive and you wont go wrong.

hades

Sorry MaDaSS, that's just not true. There are a lot of cases of >280bhp with TD04's (at least on certain rollers) with ECUTEK and full exhaust - I got 284bhp/272lbft on my 02WRX. On another day I got 282 when an STi PPP was making 286 on the same rollers. The most I have seen on a TD04 was 312bhp at Power Engineering. Admittedly, on less optimistic rollers, the numbers would be lower, but on less optimistic rollers, the WRX PPP won't make 265bhp either.

To get up there - use the "search" function Basically, a better ECUTEK map, with replacement up and downpipes etc will get you perhaps 20bhp over a PPP. You can get a bit more still by changing intercooler, some hoses, possibly headers. After that, you need to change the turbo. If you change the turbo, you definitely need to change the fuel pump, but with a TD04, the pump/injectors etc will just about cope. Take advice from whoever maps the car, though.

Ultimately, the engine internals can handle quite a lot more power if looked after properly. People on here have run mid-high 300s safely, best record I know of is Ninnybobs - IIRC he's run something like 30k miles at ~370bhp, RB5Scott made 384 but blew his engine when going for 400. Don't expect the gearbox or clutch to last unless you treat them gently if you're going over about 320lbft of torque. If you're going for 400, look at an STi engine/box (or just start with an STi!), or a 2.5L lump.

V5-APS

iTrader: (1)

Hi m8....
I'd get a hi-flo cat downpipe; change to at least a higher flowing panel air filter, then ECUTEK your existing ECU.....you can always flash it back to original PPP settings when you've had your fun!!
The replacement up-pipe needs a CEL fix doesn't it ??

hades

Up-pipe doesn't need a CEL fix, unless you either damage or get an up-pipe where you can't refit the EGT probe - in which case, you use a 2.2kOhm resistor as the fix. Downpipe usually does need a CEL fix for cat efficiency - sometimes the case even with a sports cat. That can be "mapped out" using the ECUTEK, or sorted with a resistor/capacitor fix (do a search, I posted the details a couple of years back)

Personally I agree with the hi-flow cat (either downpipe or centre), as I have one myself - it's a bit more money, but MOT friendly and usually quieter, no real loss of power at TD04 levels, although it might restrict you at 400bhp. Some people prefer full de-cat, either will do the job.

Whilst I wouldn't say don't fit the panel filter, I fitted one and found it made noticeably less difference than changing the turbo inlet pipe.

Ninnybobs

Agreed with Hades,

Certainly don't worry about the engine internals.

Read the article in the Scooby Magazine (volume 4) to see what AndyF is doing with his MY03WRX.

My car is now approaching 60k miles. Everything holding up nicely (searches frantically for some wood to touch)

Martin (MY01 WRX 403bhp)

V5-APS

iTrader: (1)

For turbo's maybe consider a swap to a VF28.....not too pricey for a 2nd hand one and good for over 300bhp.......have a look here for an older cars results.....

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=422065

Bartop

Thanks guys - on a bit of a tangent is it really possible to remap a PPP ecu and then put it back to standard later if needed ? How much approx are we talking here..

MaDaSS

Rollers were G-Force and ScoobyClinic, both are using the same highly respected set up. If you were talking a rather popular set of rollers used on here quite regular then take your car to a dyno like the above two, and then see what real figures you get.
But i was only meaning for the mods he stated you will not get a big improvement.
I too have read Andy F's latest in Scooby Mag, and he replaced the headers and stuff, so again, you will not get more than the 270 ish with standard internals. You wanna start changing headers and tmic and stuff, then yeah, big numbers for sure.
Try a proper set of dyno rollers though

MaDaSS

What made you pick a basic WRX for such extreme tuning? Was it purely a cost thing? Just out of interest like

Ninnybobs

Madass,

It was not a cost thing, as I didn't even know about modding a scoob when I bought it.......Then someone mentioned a panel filter and that was it, I was hooked.

I have added to the car over a period of 3 years in what I hope has been a logical and well thought out sequence and on many occasions, I have said "THAT'S IT", only to continue the following week.

Its an addiction and I think I need some councilling. BUT, it has been a life changing experience and I have met a lot of good friends along the way, so I don't regrets the thousands of pounds I have spent on the car.

Martin

MaDaSS

I know the feeling Ninnybobs
That is how i am now. Looking for my next "fix" when the funds allow it.

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Hi m8. I went daft last year and had my bugeye tickled. I chose not to go the ecutek route but had a GEMS implant fitted. With uprated fuel pump and a APS 3" bore exhaust produces 360 bhp on G-Force motorsports rollers in Aylesbury. Like you my next step is a difficult one. do I go for a bigger turbo or bigger capacity only time and money will decide. Have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hades

Whilst the example of 312bhp at PE with a TD04 would certainly "score" lower at many rollers, I'd expect that car would make 290+ at almost anywhere - it would comfortably excede 265/270 anyway. ECUTEK/exhausted WRX's tend to make say 260-265 at Power Station I think power station are one of the most pessimistic about - I have seen standard UK turbos fail to make 200, and old style (ie 245bhp rating) PPP's make ~220 there

To put it another way, the last time my car was on the rollers, running 281 or 282, there was more than one PPP'd car there. None made the claimed prodrive power output. As I said, I made within ~5bhp of an 02STi PPP on the same rollers on the same day, and quite a lot more than a WRX PPP (I can't honestly remember his exact figures, just that it was well down on me). The STi PPP in question IIRC had made in the 290s at G-force the previous week.

Therefore, whilst you can easily argue either way whether I'm actually making 280+ or only 260+ "real" bhp (and I won't get excited either way), I have achieved significantly more than an WRX PPP, and closer to an STi PPP on the same rollers on the same day. Add to that the significantly faster spool-up and better high rev breathing achieved thanks to decat up-pipe, open neck/splittered downpipe, samco hoses etc, I have got a noticeable improvement on the PPP, which was the original question. I'd be the first to admit that whilst my car probably gives fractionally above average results for the mods, it is certainly not exceptional for an exhaust/TEK etc WRX.

hades

PS. Martin - over 400 now - nice one!

MaDaSS

Its plenty good enough! The whole setup after tek map is better than PPP.
And like you say, not all cars will gain same results. I was not happy at mine after first rolling road result. Had a chat about it, and whether i like it or not, the two places i have spoken too, and both well respected, i got the same advice. So i cannot do anything other than sit with it. I expected what you got out of yours, which when you look at it, 280 bhp compared to 268, i am merely looking at numbers, LOL. And the torque figures are very close.
I think what gets to me, is i know what i spent compared to a PPP, and i spent a lot more than the 1600 i could have.
Dont think i am digging at you, cus i aint, this is merely a thread of info

Ninnybobs

Thanks Hades........Will see how the car compares to most at the Scooby Shootout

360Ste - What turbo you running at present?

Martin

MaDaSS

And another thing! LOL. Only messing
Whats the next step for me peeps? What turbo? Injectors? TMIC? I feel some spending coming on.