Hello,

First mod about to happen I can get a brandnew DV10 for MY99 for £110 inc P&P full 12months warrenty, brandnew. Shall I go for it?

I created a post sometime ago, asking for peoples opinions on the few mods to go for, on a budget, and no one really seemed clear on it.

I'm thinking about:

Bailey Motorsport DV10 Dump Value Kit
Induction Kit - K&N - Impreza Turbo 1999 to 2000 57-0323 - (Scoobyworld)
JR Filters - High Performance Panel Filter - Impreza 1993-2000 (Scoobyworld)

~£257 in total

Will this give me some performance increase, as well as sounding good?

Thanks.

Paul.

 

Hmmm, this sort of question always raises the same answers -

The standard Dump Valve on MY99-00's is pretty much as good as it gets, after market ones tend to go wooosh, and generally become a pain in the **** to listen to after a while. Performance benefits - most people say Nil.

Air filter - a panel filter is better than the full induction kit due to MAF issues on the MY99. performance benefits - maybe a minor power increase, but mostly noisier, so this makes the car feel faster.

I'd personally save the money towards decatting the exhaust, or even better, some whiteline bits to sort the suspension, which will actually benefit the car and improve your speed.

all imho of course

Dave
www.scoobyphotos.com

 

Wrong forum, and wrong bits for go faster

MB

 

So getting me a Dump Value is fine, and will be ok on a MY99.

So ignore the K&N Induction, and just get Filter Panel?

I'm looking to get something sorted soon, so what do you recommened then? any pages or shops that have the items, or is it a garage job?

Thanks for the info dude.

paul.

 

I was about to buy a vent to air dump valve this week but have been warned off by several knowledgeable people.

Scoobys have an excellent recirculating dump valve as standard, it does the job very well and you can't really hear it working unless you listen carefully (because it doesn't vent to air).

If you fit a vent to air, you'll get the whoosh sound and no real performance increase. But you'll also run the risk of introducing idling problems, the ECU won't be fuelling correctly when you put your foot hard down or lift off the throttle as the engine's not getting the amount of air in that the ECU thinks it is . This can apparently cause hesitation and/or jerky throttle response, as well as pops in the exhaust and potentially cause bore wash in the cylinders over time.

Personally i've gone off the idea myself.

Filter wise, the safest (in terms of not ******* up your MAF sensor) would be an STI or K&N panel filter. Lots of folks use induction kits for greater airflow but be prepared to replace your MAF sensor sooner rather than later, as these are less MAF friendly than panel filters. Having said that my cousins just fitted a K&N induction kit on his Type RA and it runs and sounds great (at the moment), when you lift off the throttle you can hear the wastegate chattering like a proper rally car .

If it was me i'd junk the aftermarket dump valve idea, get a good panel filter (or induction kit if you feel flush) and put the rest towards a performance exhaust. That's what I've just done.

 

If you look at your recirc DV it dumps air back to the airbox, which is metered by the MAF (Mass air flow sensor) By fitting a VTA DV, the return to the airbox is blanked. When you let your foot off the gas, there is no air returned to the MAF, and in short it gets confused and overfuels. Only a minor issue but ive tried a couple in my youth and MPG suffered. Many will disagree though. I also think they sound completely boy racer and cheapen the image, but thats another story...

Re filters: Why do you want to fit a cone filter? People commonly belive that doing this will increase air in, and therefore power. Not always true without a remap. The standard airbox is exellent up to over 300 bhp and protects from heat soak from the engine bay. Fitting a cone without ducting will allow hot air to be drawn in = less power potentially. Added is the fact that MY99 / 00 have weak MAF's and cones tend to help break them :: If these break they run lean and destroy your engine. Many on here have had this happen. There are various other side effects to cones, do a search.

Stick with a K&N or Green panel filter.

I suspect and claimed power gains from a cone fitler are merely where the mixture is leaned out

The best thing to do in my opinion, if you want to start modding is get the monitoring gear sorted first. Its beyond me how people mod without doing this first. It will cost a bit, but you need it IMHO.

Knocklink, boost gauge at a minimum, and an AFR if you want to add a Dawes boost controller. Oil pressure and temp are also useful, but not essential.

From there you can do the decat and TEK remap wchich will see you 270 bhp and similar torque...

MB

 

Moved to drivetrain instead of gen tech?!

MB

 

Thanks Dark Blue and Iwan.

I honestly have no idea where to start, as you can tell

I was told to get these done, obviously by someone who doesn't really know much.

I just want to make it more custom and less standard but not spend £1000's

I would be more than happy to take the advise from you lot, and get done whatever you suggest.

A decat on the scooby sounds like the most common route to take. I just wish there was a text book or someone local to say "look this is what you need to do......" And I hope you guys can get me started.

Thanks again.

Paul.

 

To pick up some good information just lurk around on here and keep your eyes and ears open, particularly to people like Bob Rawle, John Felsted, John Banks but loads of others too. You'll quickly figure out who talks sense and who doesn't (the above guys do!).

Get a copy of this too:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...959952-5900405

It's a really good book with loads of info about Scoobys, as well as advice about mods, tuning etc. You can get it from Halfords and Demon Tweeks as well as Amazon.

 

Some good advice given above, monitoring kit is defintley worth while if you are going to start increasing performance, as is a brake upgrade.

Most people start modifying in the wrong order, by looking at the engine/exhaust system before looking at braking/suspension/tyres/monitoring/driving skill.

The most common upgrades appear to be -

Decat Center Exhaust
Air Filter Upgrade (Panel)
Monitoring Kit (Knocklink/Gauges etc)
Decat Full Exhaust
Remap + Induction Kit Upgrade
Tyres (Slightly Larger wheels/better spec tyres)
Brakes (Uprated Discs/Pads/Brake Lines)
Suspension (new/uprated bushes)
Suspension (New Springs)
Suspension (New Dampers/Coilovers)

The important element (the driver) tends to get ignored!

The order people do things in gets skewed because there is more percieved benefit from making the car faster via performance mods to the engine/exhaust than there is to the rest of the car. Until you get to the remap stage, the mods you can make won't release a huge amount of extra power. i'm convinced a well setup standard car will be quicker than a badly setup faster car.

The problem is budget, as most of the handling improvements can start to cost money.

If you are really keen to spend money, decat center and air filter are the logical steps forward on a tight budget (don't forget to tell the insurance comapny though), but don't expect to find that performance is much quicker than it is already.

some links (in no particular order) -

http://www.scoobyclinic.com
http://www.tsl-motorsport.com
http://www.scoobyworld.com
http://www.rogerclarkmotorsport.co.u...trancehome.asp
http://www.drmotorsport.co.uk/
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk

Cheers
Dave
www.scoobyphotos.com

 

Sorry to jump in guys, i too was thinking of the following mods, but have a few questions, how does an induction kit break a maf sensor? if its due to vibrations, would a well supported filter prevent this? i also agree that they may reduce power as its sucking in hot air, i have done a bit of research and a company called APS do a cold air intake that actually puts the induction cone in the inner wing, is this better than a panel filter?

Cheers guys

 

Vibration can kill it, but an uneven air flow can confuse the MAF. K&N cone is best as it has a mounting bracket.

APS one - depends what you mean by "better" I still maintain that there's no point changing it unless you want big horsepower, or a lot of noise

MB

 

i see your point, at the moment i have a HKS filter, again this has a rigid bracket, but am concerned it is going to suck in more hot air, loosing power, when i say better i mean more efficient and will give better power figures when remapped.

Cheers for the help mark

 

My cousin has the K&N induction kit with a bracket fixing the end of the cone filter onto the inner wing. The MAF tube was still able to move up and down quite a bit so he made an additional metal bracket which fixes onto the MAF tube and is bolted rigidly onto the inner wing, nothing moves now.

Not sure whether the MAF needs 're-scaling' now or not, seems to run ok as it is.

Hes put 2 cold air feed tubes running from the front grille to the cone, and is looking at making a plastic/aluminium shield so it doesn't suck hot air from the engine side. That and a mini scoop should keep everything cool enough when the car's moving - not sure about if it's stationary though...

 

thats basically what the aps one does it fits to the MAF then goes into the inner wing and has a K&N on it, so the inner wing is basically used like a heat shield

 

Just out of interest. i thought the WRC cars had vent to airv dump valves so what you say does not make sense. Shorley they would know best!

 

I'm not an expert, just passing on what people in the know have told me. I'm not sure if WRC cars even have a dump valve. Maybe an expert can explain what the chattering noise is made by. Wastegate, anti-lag?

The WRC cars have their turbos replaced every 1000 miles or so, not very economically viable on the road. Not on my salary anyway.

 

Dump valve is blanked off. Chattering is from the wastegate and turbo. Anti lag gives the popping and banging

If you do it on a standard car, it will sound nice and chirpy but causes a lot of stress on the turbo bearings, as is goes it's dead headed. It will also take longer to spool up when you put your foot back down.

MB

 

WRC cars use anti-lag, not good if you want your turbo to last
First thing is first..... Speak to your insurance company, they may not be very mod friendly, if you pay say, oh 1200 quid per annum, and you add an exhaust, it could add 300 quid to your policy!!
But if you want to go the modding way and can afford what your insurance co hit you with, then start with the brakes, THE most important part, those 4 pots are ok, but there are much better out there, braided hoses, a decent brake fluid, better pads/discs, even a completely different disc/caliper setup like an AP 4 Pot 305mm/330mm.
Then go for your exhaust, a knocklink, an STi panel filter and a remap.
If your insurance co isnt overly mod friendly, then just add super unleaded/optimax you will see gains in better pickup and smoother accelleration

Tony

 

Echo much of the above. If your insurance company is mod friendly then go for a de-cat and filter (and a re-map further down the line if you want). If all you want to is to customise your car on budget then go for a backbox and dump valve. I wouldnt bother changing the air filter until you have de-catted.

Bob

 

Excellent, thank you all so much for your input.


I've slowly been turned off the idea of the dump values I really want to get these on, mainly for attraction rather than performance, as £110 can't really give you much performance increase.

I might still get them and just have them on for a short while, til the novelty wears off, but now i'm worried its gonna screw mi scooby up

I think my route is going to be

1. Save up for De-Cat and twin exhaust, I love the twin exhaust on the Audis.
2. Brakes
3. Mega save up for a Remap - Is it really worth the £760 price tag? Scooby world claim uk spec turbos to 290bhp, what are the insurance companies going to say to a Remap, plus is this Remap going to degrade anything else in the car as a result?

Thanks again folks, you really have opened my eyes on this.

My only other hang up is where to go for this kind of stuff. I went in my local MotorSave and they practically said "whats a subaru" they had no idea.