GBruce

Hi,

Anyone tried the APS 3.5" exhaust system, quite expensive over here at about £1100. I have found it on hopupracing website for $1189 dollars so thats got to be cheaper even if I have to pay a bit to get it over here.

If you are using one what do you think of it? sound, performance etc.......


Thanks


George

john banks

There was a write up in this month's Jap Performance about a 2.5 G-Force setup car that did c.409 BHP. Apparently everyone will be struggling to match their figures on 2.5s, and it was only due to the combination of SR50 and 3.5" APS exhaust, and there were no other parts available that would do this.

coulty

As usual John sits on fence with no hint of any faces....LOL

Quality!

GBruce

Hi,

Yes, I have seen this and also an article in an older issue where they tested different set-ups on a uk300.

Just thought if it doesn't cost too much to get it imported then that $1189 dollars wouldn't be a bad price, I realise g-force are just trying make their systems look the best so they sell more. If you are using this setup what do you think?

Are there any other alternatives to this, big bore, high flowing without being over the top noise wise? Whats a Pat spec system? I think a mate has one on his uk300


George

callum Sti02

LOL at John Thought the same as well! Obviously we should have bought the 2.5 NA blocks and more APS bits that need fettling to make them work

I like the sound of the 3.5" APS but it's only done 1200 miles of running in. I may yet change my mind if we get banned from Bruntingthorpe during the next mapping session

harvey

iTrader: (48)

A good 3" system on a 2 litre is not a constriction to beyond 600bhp so why go to the expense and hassle of a 3.5" system?
Was the Jap Performance comments on the 3.5" system fair and unbiased and why have G-Force decided to stop selling APS gear and go back to concentrating on Porsches?

Look at the exhaust casting. It is VERY heavy and over engineered. The sort of thing you would have found on the Queen Mary 50 years ago. Does it look like it has good gas flow qualities?

GBruce

Hi,

Have looked at some pictures of the system and it looks very free flowing, well the stainless bit anyway, not to sure about the bit that mounts to the turbo.

What's everyone else using?

George

MaDaSS

Is this right? They are not doing APS now?

urbanmyth

Hi all
I am the owner how had the UK300 that was in Jap Performance.
The APS 3.5 system is fantastic. The quality is stunning and the sound is one of the best.
The best part of it all is the extra torque you get with it. I had previously a full Magnext system (cat free) & Scoobysports system (cat free) & then mixture of them. None of the could get near the figures that the APS system was making.
Since then I have added a APS cold air kit and a APS TMIC with a remap.
The car is now putting out 285Bhp and 315Ft/lbs.

I know that neither of the of the other two system could get neat the 315ft/lbs that the APS system as I have the R/R print outs for them.

The system is worth it and if you can get it cheaper the do it.
I am surprised that more people don’t use them.

The Fixer

Gbruce, dont waste your time on the 3.5" system, by the time you have imported it, added the import duty then the VAT its just not worth it.

Take advice from the likes of Harvey, John Banks, Andy F, they are all running high power scoobs on 3" or less exhaust systems at suitably lower prices. The money you save could be put to better use like a better turbo, FMIC etc.

john banks

urbanmyth, I had 115 BHP and 45 lbft more than that on an exhaust of half the cross sectional area (2.5" Magnex). How then the exhaust is such a huge restriction I have no idea, try the hot spinning thing that blocks the exhaust instead

urbanmyth

John Banks, Seams to me that you have some issues with APS or G-Force.
Constructive criticism is always welcome.
The reason I would recommend them is because I was there at G-Force and could see with my eye that the APS 3.5” system works better than the other 2/3 systems in a back to back test ( nothing else was changed just the system) I had on my car fact. As for the money wise. Yep it is not cheap but hay neither are scoobys.

We are all enthusiasts at the end of the day

The Fixer

I dont think anybody has issues with APS, good qaulity gear but expensive, probably a little overhyped but IMHO I believe there are better value for money products on the market that can do equally the same job.

As for your UK 300, we could have fitted £350 FE TD05, STi 8 Intercooler, remapped it and you would have had 350 ish HP and 330 ft/lbs of torque for a few thousand pounds less and all still on your original mix & match exhaust system.

Turbo_Steve

Urban Myth...would be interested to see the car fitted with each of those exhausts and remapped properly, as simply changing the pipe could be changing lambda sensor readings, leaning out parts of the map or all sorts, which would make the car quicker, but not actually as a benefit of the increased flow, purely as a side effect. With good mapping both other systems should get similar results, making the extra money on the APS academic if you plan to remap.

Saying that, though, I can't imagine that a bigger pipe will in anyway reduce performance of the car if it's mapped with it.

john banks

The assumption that a particular power or torque achievement requires APS branding and a 3.5" exhaust is plainly incorrect, but regularly quoted by G-Force in their adverts and comments in Japanese Performance. I'm one of many who have noted this, it makes them look like mere salesmen wearing APS blinkers.

Some APS kit I quite like, some of it I happen to have on my car, but there are many equally good alternatives. Some of it is plain nasty (such as their leaking hybrid dump valves which screw up MAF readings at idle on more than one example).

Some spokesperson(s) from APS themselves are just a touch on the arrogant side as well, with initial point blank denial of issues with APS induction kits that drop airflow meter readings by up to 20-25% even after engines were popping. Their claims on the turbos are famous for being optimistic and not being achieved, but I suppose that is because they weren't fitted with the APS 3.5" exhaust.

There is more to exhaust testing than meets the eye. You can gain far more with some breathing mods than would be imagined for the reason that the boost is not controlled between experiments because of changes in wastegate flow, and the AFR and timing are not equalised when comparing intakes, plus they can also cause overboost situations. So in your back to back test can you illustrate it in testing across multiple cars, with controlled ignition timing and AFR, as well as temperatures and sequence of testing, measured by a blinded independent assessor? If not then the results are certainly open to question and debate, as they should be when people are also getting good results that would appear impossible if you believed everything that G-Force quote.

callum Sti02

Hi Conrad, Looks like I'm out of touch with what your up to mate Who's "we"? Didn't realise you sold FE TD05's for £350? How much are you asking for the conversion you mention - TD05, STi 8 Intercooler & remap?

Back on topic - I love the sound of my APS 3.5". I've had Scoobysport, Magnex, Milltek & H&S bits on this car and I wouldn't swap back unless there was good reason to do so.
I'm not saying it is necessary, lightweight, perfect or good VFM. It's over-engineered but so what I like things that are over-engineered. I did flow the cast outlet as it was fouling the path of gas from the turbo but this is not the first "bespoke" product that I've purchased that could easily be improved with a little more care.
It is well proven that you do not need a 3.5" exhaust to achieve high power. However, I still haven't seen any good tests comparing EG back pressure & temps on a car with the same set up & various exhaust diameters - apart from APS who may just be spouting sales bull****. I do value the information in Bell's books and some of my purchasing decision was based on this. As for power I think it will always be very difficult to tell the real comparison given the massive variety of specs used for the various cars.
Like John I have found their telephone manner aggressive which winds me up but if you persevere it helps

Callum

GBruce

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the help so far, some interesting points.

This was the exhaust setup I had,

SS backbox
SS centre
SS downpipe with taper to 2.5" at end
Gruppe-S v2 headers
H+S 2 1/4 solid up-pipe

Turbo is the td05/06 20g

What exhaust system would you recommend to work well with this turbo and maybe a bigger one if I decide to go further with the tuning in the future? Don't want to buy another exhaust after this one really.

I have looked at Revolution system with 4" tail, Is that downpipe design more restrictive than the open neck design of the H+S for example?
Can a H+S 3" straight through downpipe mate to a revolution backbox and centre?

H+S 3" downpipe and HKS Hiper centre and back (Too loud?)

Thanks


George

john banks

What is wrong with the SS system you have already then? Sounds like a nice setup.

I have the Revolution 3" system, and I think the downpipe design is a bit of a dog's dinner, I also had to get it weld up because the slip joints leaked. But it seems to flow OK.

The bottom of the Revolution downpipe sits in the usual place and has a 3" flange with 2 bolt holes, so should fit a 3" centre section I would think.

I would like to quieten mine down a bit, but that would mean lots of resonators, which Alan Garrod has done on this exhaust with success, or switching to a different centre and backbox that bolts onto a 3" flange and is really quiet.

GBruce

Hi John,

Didn't like the sound, it was very raspy boy racer sound bit like the early rally subarus before they had equal length manifolds. I don't want it really loud but I need it to be a good performer too. Heard the aps 3.5" and it didn't sound too bad for such a large bore system. Bought a fujitsubo legalis R centre and back and its a bit too quiet but I measured the pipe at the downpipe joint and it's only 2.5 inch but then goes bigger after that to 3". Car is making more boost with this on, does this suggest it's more restrictive?

George

john banks

Boost depends on the flow through both the wastegate and the exhaust. Too many variables to give a straight answer.

The Fixer

I also have a Revolution system and agree with John that the down pipe (and turbo flange) is a dogs dinner

Some new systems will be coming out soon that eliminate the need to go elsewhere and buy someone elses downpipe

Callum, cant say too much at the moment, i'm not Authorised (yet), drop me a PM if you like

Andy.F

From the link in your profile I'd hazard a guess that its Conrad and Matt with a new company called "the racing line"

ps a 2.5" SS system does ok for me

The Fixer

Andy, Shhhhhh! Dont tell everybody that a 2.5" system will get you the quickest 1/4 mile Subaru in the UK LOL

Richard74

Hi, please excuse my ignorance but I'm new to all this and after reading this thread feel well out of my depth.

I've just bought a 98 classic and want to upgrade the exhaust. I've posted elsewhere (albeit in the wrong forum) saying this and that I don't like 4" tailpipes and loads of noise.

With this in mind what's the best one to go for? I'm not looking to turn my car into a monster but a few more bhp would be nice.

Also, what are the most restrictive elements of the exhaust, back box, cat, down pipe etc?

Does anyone know of a site that compares them and has dyno graphs as proof?

Thanks in advance.

callum Sti02

LOL Andy

Does Conrad not know that your exhaust has conceived and produced a baby to help with the job of expelling gas?

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Callum, i know, even if conrad doesnt (looked under it at TOTB)

TBH, i changed drom a SS 2.5 system to a 3" downpipe and HKS Hyper which is 3" and the difference, with out mapping was negligble, ie 3bhp or something.

Andys 2.5system works well, , but then on full boost, he probably has a 5" system expelling the air (guess on diameter)

Richard, the downpipe is the biggest restricion on a standard car IMO. I would suggest a downpipe and a back box, to get a benefit and without too much noise.

The Fixer

External WG to Atmosphere Not very Envoiramentally friendly Mr.Forrest

Richard, there are plenty of good systems around. Use the search function there have been loads of exhaust threads.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Conrad, to be fair, andys does pass through a silencer, unlike most EW variants on here.

callum Sti02

Hi Steven,

Andy's WG/Exhaust setup is very nice but so is his intercooler, clocked turbo, etc & I'd say it would be very difficult to do what he has achieved with a conventional turbo & a 2.5" exhaust

FWIW I think you will have gained by going 3" even if it is marginal in power results ATM. It seems like your car still has more to offer and presumably less EGBP will help around or above 450bhp when you are doing the next map. There are many things we do to our cars that have a marginal but cumulative effect?

The APS is advertised as a "true" 3.5" but mine certainly isn't. The O/D is a nominal 3.5" but the bore at one or two points I have measured is closer to 3.25" and as such is similar to some of the bigger Japanese systems like the Blitz which IIRC is around 80mm?

Andy.F

Sorry if I have mislead anyone here, it wasn't on purpose
Indeed I do have a separate route for the wastegate gasses via a 2" bore silencer so that takes my overall gas exit area up to the equivalent of a 3.2" bore system.

Andy