High oil consumption
15 August 2004, 09:29 PM
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High oil consumption
I've been finding that I've been eating through the oily stuff, it's always used a bit but now is at about a litre every 2-3000 miles if not more. I'm not running any heavy mods, just decat downpipe and centre section on an 02 WRX with 68k.
After popping to have it looked at by the dealer they couldn't find anything wrong. They cleaned the 'breather tubes' (what are they?) and had the intercooler off etc.
I don't expect anyone to have any answers but is it worth switching the servicing to every 7,500 miles? The interval on mine is 10,000 and wondered if this could help. Also, I've been topping up with Shell Helix on occasion when I couldn't get RS Castrol. Should I be thinking of possibly thicker oils and is this a sign of big problems ahead? Otherwise all runs fine.
BTW, the dealer suggested putting the cats back on at 100k to help reduce the stress on the engine as I do big miles. Can that be right?
Sorry to ramble, just hoping that someone may have a few ideas.
Cheers!
Mike
After popping to have it looked at by the dealer they couldn't find anything wrong. They cleaned the 'breather tubes' (what are they?) and had the intercooler off etc.
I don't expect anyone to have any answers but is it worth switching the servicing to every 7,500 miles? The interval on mine is 10,000 and wondered if this could help. Also, I've been topping up with Shell Helix on occasion when I couldn't get RS Castrol. Should I be thinking of possibly thicker oils and is this a sign of big problems ahead? Otherwise all runs fine.
BTW, the dealer suggested putting the cats back on at 100k to help reduce the stress on the engine as I do big miles. Can that be right?
Sorry to ramble, just hoping that someone may have a few ideas.
Cheers!
Mike
25 August 2004, 04:26 PM
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oil loss
My 95 wrx has the same problem. according to the guy at turbo active (this applied to a garret t3 from my old rover 200 tb), the seals between the bearing and exhaust housings rely on a amount of back presure in the exhaust to prevent oil from passing though. fitting de cat pipes and sports exhaust lower the back pressure and allow oil though in small amounts. i used to get a puff of blue smoke from my old t3.5 hybrid occasionally on overrun. i have a blitz nur spec exhaust on my scooby, it doesnt smoke
(that i've noticed!), but goes though almost a liter every 1500miles. i put it down to this, and just keep topping up. as for oils i ve been using carlube 10 40w synth, changed every 4k, its only 15 quid and has been fine for last 30k!
i sure plenty people will disagree and say piston rings are knacked etc, but on my 200 turbo the smoke and oil consumpution only appeared after fitting the decat and exhaust.
hop this helps.
(that i've noticed!), but goes though almost a liter every 1500miles. i put it down to this, and just keep topping up. as for oils i ve been using carlube 10 40w synth, changed every 4k, its only 15 quid and has been fine for last 30k!
i sure plenty people will disagree and say piston rings are knacked etc, but on my 200 turbo the smoke and oil consumpution only appeared after fitting the decat and exhaust.
hop this helps.
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25 August 2004, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bowman
My 95 wrx has the same problem. according to the guy at turbo active (this applied to a garret t3 from my old rover 200 tb), the seals between the bearing and exhaust housings rely on a amount of back presure in the exhaust to prevent oil from passing though. fitting de cat pipes and sports exhaust lower the back pressure and allow oil though in small amounts. i used to get a puff of blue smoke from my old t3.5 hybrid occasionally on overrun. i have a blitz nur spec exhaust on my scooby, it doesnt smoke
(that i've noticed!), but goes though almost a liter every 1500miles. i put it down to this, and just keep topping up. as for oils i ve been using carlube 10 40w synth, changed every 4k, its only 15 quid and has been fine for last 30k!
i sure plenty people will disagree and say piston rings are knacked etc, but on my 200 turbo the smoke and oil consumpution only appeared after fitting the decat and exhaust.
hop this helps.
(that i've noticed!), but goes though almost a liter every 1500miles. i put it down to this, and just keep topping up. as for oils i ve been using carlube 10 40w synth, changed every 4k, its only 15 quid and has been fine for last 30k!
i sure plenty people will disagree and say piston rings are knacked etc, but on my 200 turbo the smoke and oil consumpution only appeared after fitting the decat and exhaust.
hop this helps.
Mike
Edited to add that I'm having the 70k service on Friday. The garage use Magnatec. Is it worth trying this as it's a bit thicker or should I take a bagfull of Castrol RS 10-60?
Last edited by RecordProduction.com; 25 August 2004 at 10:43 PM.
25 August 2004, 11:20 PM
#12
Avoid Magnatec, it has a bad reputation on here / with Scoobies.
Castrol RS 10-60 is fine, or motul 300V, Mobil 1 Motorsport for example, must be a good quality fully synthetic for best protection.
Castrol RS 10-60 is fine, or motul 300V, Mobil 1 Motorsport for example, must be a good quality fully synthetic for best protection.
25 August 2004, 11:30 PM
#13
For your original question - what are breathers - they are the pipes that take the spare/excess gas from engine ( blown into crank case or cam area as rings / valves wear etc ) and put it back into the inlet pipe somewhere ( emissions etc ) which means the burnt gas getting past the rings or valves may pick up oil and take it back to the inlet pipework.
Hence cleaning the breathers, intercooler, inlet pipework etc and boost control solenoid pipework amongst others. If rings are worn or bores glazed than more likely to get this oil ridden gas, ditto for poor valve seats / valve seals.
Your car is a bit new to have this ageing efect, but the mileage is near enough to say maybe worth a look!
Not expensive parts ... but some labour .... and since you are in 3 year warranty I guess ... go for it!
Other sources of oil loss are front and rear crank seals, and cam cover gaskets, these seem to leak after about 6 - 8 years or 70,000 - 80,000 miles. But are visible leaks - the seals harden with age / use and then leak ...
Hence cleaning the breathers, intercooler, inlet pipework etc and boost control solenoid pipework amongst others. If rings are worn or bores glazed than more likely to get this oil ridden gas, ditto for poor valve seats / valve seals.
Your car is a bit new to have this ageing efect, but the mileage is near enough to say maybe worth a look!
Not expensive parts ... but some labour .... and since you are in 3 year warranty I guess ... go for it!
Other sources of oil loss are front and rear crank seals, and cam cover gaskets, these seem to leak after about 6 - 8 years or 70,000 - 80,000 miles. But are visible leaks - the seals harden with age / use and then leak ...
26 August 2004, 09:38 PM
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Wow! That's a lot to go on, thanks! I'm out of warranty now, over the 60k. 
Will chat with the friendly chaps at the garage tomorrow.
Panic just set in, forgot to go get oil to supply. Eeek!
Will chat with the friendly chaps at the garage tomorrow. Panic just set in, forgot to go get oil to supply. Eeek!
26 August 2004, 11:04 PM
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9 yrs i've been working on subarus never had a problem with magnatec on any of our cars. as a road car oil it's fine as a track day car oil agreed it's not up to it you need a higher working temp oil. but lets not let this turn into another oil thread they get so boring.
as for oil consumption on 02my foresters onwards subaru changed the piston rings slightly so that they didn't exert as much pressure on the cylinder walls. they did it to try and make the engine smoother and more responsive and get more mpg. i never got a definitive answer as to weather they tried it with turbos but they could well have done so this may also be a factor in oil consumption as well
as for oil consumption on 02my foresters onwards subaru changed the piston rings slightly so that they didn't exert as much pressure on the cylinder walls. they did it to try and make the engine smoother and more responsive and get more mpg. i never got a definitive answer as to weather they tried it with turbos but they could well have done so this may also be a factor in oil consumption as well
27 August 2004, 09:57 AM
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somethings that strike me that I have to reply to!
100k put the cats back on!! pmsl..
Currently running original TD05 and original engine with 151,000miles running fmic, 550 injectors and link ecu, full decat and 1.3bar boost.. no oil consumption..
Also the seal on the turbo needing back pressure is complete rubbish too imho.
You should not be mixing fully synthetic with semi synthetic when topping it up.
possible you oil seals on the turbo are shot but unrelated to the decat other than perhaps the boost has increased lightly forcing more oil through but that is not the decats fault.. the seal is still leaking
100k put the cats back on!! pmsl..
Currently running original TD05 and original engine with 151,000miles running fmic, 550 injectors and link ecu, full decat and 1.3bar boost.. no oil consumption..
Also the seal on the turbo needing back pressure is complete rubbish too imho.
You should not be mixing fully synthetic with semi synthetic when topping it up.
possible you oil seals on the turbo are shot but unrelated to the decat other than perhaps the boost has increased lightly forcing more oil through but that is not the decats fault.. the seal is still leaking
27 August 2004, 08:58 PM
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Well today was very enlightening. After the 70k service the very helpful chap asked when I'd taken my heat shield off? Err, I didn't, I said. Then I remembered that my last garage did the downpipe and presumed that as they were a propper Scooby garage and fitted 'their special downpipe' that it was all done as it should have been.
Anyway, the reason this came up is because the mechanic said that when he lifted the bonnet it was like an oven under there and the clutch and brake fluid reservoirs were being subjected to excessive heat. This could explain my odd but rare problem when the engine is very hot changing out gears can be a problem! Also, if the engine is running so hot it doesn't seem so odd that the oil is being used? The high oil consumption has co-incided with the decatting so I hope that this is the simple explanation. BTW, no oil leaks were spotted.
Anyway, I'm going to have to sort this out and will make a polite call to my old dealer to ask why they only half did the job for top money and what are they going to do about it?! I don't expect to get anywhere so the questions are:
Is this a likely explanation for the higher oil usage?
What are the best ways to lag or shield etc?
Are there any places that can do this in the midlands/south east?
A big thumbs up to the guys at Cotswold Subaru!
Mike
Anyway, the reason this came up is because the mechanic said that when he lifted the bonnet it was like an oven under there and the clutch and brake fluid reservoirs were being subjected to excessive heat. This could explain my odd but rare problem when the engine is very hot changing out gears can be a problem! Also, if the engine is running so hot it doesn't seem so odd that the oil is being used? The high oil consumption has co-incided with the decatting so I hope that this is the simple explanation. BTW, no oil leaks were spotted.
Anyway, I'm going to have to sort this out and will make a polite call to my old dealer to ask why they only half did the job for top money and what are they going to do about it?! I don't expect to get anywhere so the questions are:
Is this a likely explanation for the higher oil usage?
What are the best ways to lag or shield etc?
Are there any places that can do this in the midlands/south east?
A big thumbs up to the guys at Cotswold Subaru!
Mike
27 August 2004, 09:34 PM
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the reason they didn't refit the heat shield is because the new downpipe is fatter and the heat shield then doesn't fit. You can cut it to go over the downpipe but easier to run without.
Sounds like Cotswold actually know nothing other than standard cars and point the finger at the non-standard exhaust. I have run for 40k with no heatshield to no effect and the 30k before that with and it made no difference to the clutch and brake fluid or oil consumption.
This will not be your occasional gear change problem cause.
oil useage has nothing to do with the downpipe..............
Sounds like Cotswold actually know nothing other than standard cars and point the finger at the non-standard exhaust. I have run for 40k with no heatshield to no effect and the 30k before that with and it made no difference to the clutch and brake fluid or oil consumption.
This will not be your occasional gear change problem cause.
oil useage has nothing to do with the downpipe..............
27 August 2004, 09:49 PM
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Hmm. Get your point! Is there a way to lag and reduce the heat or is it a waste of time? That clutch problem only ever happens when it's been ragged (car) and the engine is very hot so thought it could be an explanation - but I'm no mechanic.
Anyway, the turbo seals sounds interesting. Shortly after the downpipe decat I had massive smoke, so much a dual carriage way was fogged thickly! Ended up being taken to garage on a trailer but no explanation was ever found - they thought the turbo had gone before checking. This was 30k back and since has never been back.
Is this a specialist job - getting the seals checked - or would the run of the mill Scooby garage be able to do this?
Thanks for the help BTW!
Mike
Anyway, the turbo seals sounds interesting. Shortly after the downpipe decat I had massive smoke, so much a dual carriage way was fogged thickly! Ended up being taken to garage on a trailer but no explanation was ever found - they thought the turbo had gone before checking. This was 30k back and since has never been back.
Is this a specialist job - getting the seals checked - or would the run of the mill Scooby garage be able to do this?
Thanks for the help BTW!
Mike
27 August 2004, 10:39 PM
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you can buy a turbo blanket, or modify the original heat shield, if the garage that fitted the downpipe didn't hand it back to you after doing the job (assuming not else you would have realised it was not fitted) I'd go back and complain they must have a pile of them out the back by now.
It sounds like the seals on the turbo are shot.. I suggest you try and find a secondhand turbo and get it swapped, you could have the current turbo removed and checked but I'd be careful doing that at a dealer as there replace with new policy will hit you in the wallet..
Try API Engines, API David posts on here, or Rally Colin.
It sounds like the seals on the turbo are shot.. I suggest you try and find a secondhand turbo and get it swapped, you could have the current turbo removed and checked but I'd be careful doing that at a dealer as there replace with new policy will hit you in the wallet..
Try API Engines, API David posts on here, or Rally Colin.
27 August 2004, 10:51 PM
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so if we know nothing then prodrive don't know anything when they cut the heatshield on the wr1's to fit over the larger downpipe you might like excessive heat next to your brake and clutch cylinders but i they obviously don't think it's a good thing at all, it's there for a reason or else why bother at all. they say a little knowledge is dangerous and you certainly have a little knowledge and i also refer to your post about the thermostat as well. remind me not to ever buy a car off you with boiled fluid and heat soaked seals on master cylinders not good at all.
and no it wasn't me that worked on the car either
and no it wasn't me that worked on the car either
27 August 2004, 11:15 PM
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Getting as hot as my engine bay this thread 
First off I'm going to try and resolve the heat shield issue and monitor the oil consumption over the next few 1,000 miles to see how things are going.
BTW, they guys down at Cotswold Subaru have been very helpful and far more interested in the problems than my previous garage. I felt miffed that the previous garage hadn't told me that they'd not replaced the heat shield.
Judging by the cars I saw in there today they see as many modified cars as anyone else. Once again, a big thumbs up from me!
Mike
First off I'm going to try and resolve the heat shield issue and monitor the oil consumption over the next few 1,000 miles to see how things are going.
BTW, they guys down at Cotswold Subaru have been very helpful and far more interested in the problems than my previous garage. I felt miffed that the previous garage hadn't told me that they'd not replaced the heat shield.
Judging by the cars I saw in there today they see as many modified cars as anyone else. Once again, a big thumbs up from me!
Mike
27 August 2004, 11:26 PM
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pmsl..
Look on the clutch and brake cylinders... they have heat shields of their own around the fluid resivoirs.
I am sure no body would want to buy my 151,000miles scoob with not much standard under the bonnet.. lol
You have jumped big style in the thermostate thread on the idea that I knew nothing about the how the thermostate worked and what it does.. all I said was I believed they did not fully shut.. not I know nothing about how it works.
This guys car has been using excessive oil.. fix it.. ffs..
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - that is what car dealers want everyone to think so that they come and pay you money to fix things that anyone with reasonable competence could do themselves.
Look on the clutch and brake cylinders... they have heat shields of their own around the fluid resivoirs.
I am sure no body would want to buy my 151,000miles scoob with not much standard under the bonnet.. lol
You have jumped big style in the thermostate thread on the idea that I knew nothing about the how the thermostate worked and what it does.. all I said was I believed they did not fully shut.. not I know nothing about how it works.
This guys car has been using excessive oil.. fix it.. ffs..
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - that is what car dealers want everyone to think so that they come and pay you money to fix things that anyone with reasonable competence could do themselves.
Last edited by Jolly Green Monster; 27 August 2004 at 11:37 PM.
27 August 2004, 11:44 PM
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clean them out it comes back i 've been there and tried it bit of a bodge as well and we haven't look at the excessive oil problem at all thats another dealer. show me the heatshield on the brake reservoir can't remember one being there also as your car is running a link it will be ok as it's mapped to run a decat mike's car isn't so he needs to either put the cat back on or get a remap like you we all know that it can make them run lean and look what a failed maf does to an engine.
all people seem to think is that being a technician is all about draining oil and changing filters thats what my first year apprentice does and yeah anyone can do it but when the problem runs deeper than that, reasonable competence doesn't come in to it.
all people seem to think is that being a technician is all about draining oil and changing filters thats what my first year apprentice does and yeah anyone can do it but when the problem runs deeper than that, reasonable competence doesn't come in to it.
28 August 2004, 12:01 AM
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I removed the bit about cleaning the solenoid out as when I checked through the posts in this thread I couldn't find reference to it so though I must have got my posts crossed.
The reason it comes back is usually due to overfilling of the oil or oil vapour due to the oil being used causing too much vapour up the breather pipes, the right oil and the right oil level and it shouldn't contaminate the boost solenoid.
Can only find a picture of the clutch resivoir.. just checked on my car, I was mistaken there is not one on the brake resivoir but it is shielded by the master cylinder itself.
The MAF based ecu should compensate for the extra power introduced by the downpipe and centre decat, but would be wise to fit a knock link or delta dash or similar when the car is modded and at least run it on SUL or Optimax, but then this is another issue and nothing to do with the oil consumption or excessive heat.
The car industry is pushing for people to not do anything on their cars at all, which in many cases is for the right reasons and in many cases a damn good thing, but then so many garages are taking the michael..
I am not implying you or the dealer are working for are doing this btw.
Perhaps a competence test or exam is required to enable individuals to be authorised to work on their cars.. but then perhaps that is a little to big brother.
I am not sure where I was going now.. too tired.
The reason it comes back is usually due to overfilling of the oil or oil vapour due to the oil being used causing too much vapour up the breather pipes, the right oil and the right oil level and it shouldn't contaminate the boost solenoid.
Can only find a picture of the clutch resivoir.. just checked on my car, I was mistaken there is not one on the brake resivoir but it is shielded by the master cylinder itself.
The MAF based ecu should compensate for the extra power introduced by the downpipe and centre decat, but would be wise to fit a knock link or delta dash or similar when the car is modded and at least run it on SUL or Optimax, but then this is another issue and nothing to do with the oil consumption or excessive heat.
The car industry is pushing for people to not do anything on their cars at all, which in many cases is for the right reasons and in many cases a damn good thing, but then so many garages are taking the michael..
I am not implying you or the dealer are working for are doing this btw.
Perhaps a competence test or exam is required to enable individuals to be authorised to work on their cars.. but then perhaps that is a little to big brother.
I am not sure where I was going now.. too tired.
01 September 2004, 02:48 PM
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just to add to the high oil consumption...
I have a wrx 2004 model with no mods whatsoever
after 4,5 months of usage and 10k kms it completely run out of oil, the mechanic added 3,5 liters of oil before the oil meter showed up something
and the engine was completely ruined and the block was replaced along with pistons, rods what have you
what is amazing and strange to me is the excessive oil consumption in a normal usage (as normal as possible for a car of this type)
My other car is a forester (atmospheric) 2000 model and hasnt had a problem ever. Of course are completely diff cars but that much oil consumption is ridiculous
luckily the replacement was coverec by the dealership
I have a wrx 2004 model with no mods whatsoever
after 4,5 months of usage and 10k kms it completely run out of oil, the mechanic added 3,5 liters of oil before the oil meter showed up something
and the engine was completely ruined and the block was replaced along with pistons, rods what have you
what is amazing and strange to me is the excessive oil consumption in a normal usage (as normal as possible for a car of this type)
My other car is a forester (atmospheric) 2000 model and hasnt had a problem ever. Of course are completely diff cars but that much oil consumption is ridiculous
luckily the replacement was coverec by the dealership