Razor2001

Hi all,

Please help

History:

JDM STI-7, full turbo back catless zorst by ScoobySport (old style), remmaped ecu by Ecutek (ScoobySport by mail remmap), mapped for 98 RON gas and hot climate, hits about 1.2 -.3 bar in 4th gear, new uprated fuel pump.

Car has about 20,000 miles, new sprak plugs at about 15,000 miles and obvioulsy been serviced etc

I installed a KnockLink yesterday, mounted the bosch sensor directly on top of the factory knock sensor as this was what Link recommended for my car over the phone. Seemed a little weird to have them stacked on top of each other but this is what they recommended.

Got in the car and low revs two greens light up sometimes. Over about 5,500 - 6,000 rpms the two orange lights come on under hard acceleration, I have not seen the top big light come on yet but I am sure in the middle of a hot day it would

Obviously this means I have det. First question is has this det I have been driving around with destroyed my engine already, do the two orange lights mean I have been hurting my engine driving all this time like this ? I mean from what I can tell / feel the car seems to be running ok reaching full boost etc ?

I have no idea what to do. I sent a few logs in a couple of weeks ago and a couple of the pros said they looked ok but I could swear I heard det (tiny nails being dropped in a tin can).

I want to send a few more logs for some to look at. My question is what exactly should I log, under what conditions, full throttle, 1/2 throttle etc etc ??

Please help.

Cheers,
Ray

Razor2001

bttt

WREXY

You have the sensor in the wrong place to start with. Someone that's installed a knocklink with a new age car will hopefully post a pic of where you should mount the sensor, but I'm sure it's towards the back of the engine near the gearbox where there is a spare threaded hole. Untill you install the sensor in the correct position we can't comment on whether you actually are seeing real det. The sensor which is a microphone, should be placed on the block and not on top of something, especially another sensor. Your stock sensor may not be working properly with another sitting on top of it.

Would someone with a new age rex post a pic of where the bosch knock sensor should be installed please?

Delboy2

There is an installation guide HERE

A piccie from Stefans site :-



Cheers

MadGrip

spot on DelBoy, thats where mine is and AFAIK is the correct position for the sensor

WREXY

Thanks Delboy. Mine's there too, however that's for the classic shaped cars. The new age cars have the stock sensor there I think. Well they have something there which doesn't allow the Bosch jobbie to go on. We still need a new age car pic.

Cheers,

George.

MadGrip

I have a bugeye, and mine goes about there, I'll try dig a pic out

Phil

Razor2001

thanks guys

please post a pic, I hope it is just the incorrect installation that is showing det....

I wonder why the guy from LINK said to install it on top of the other sensor ?

Cheers,
Ray

Razor2001

another quick question,

The mechanic that installed the knocklink said that there was oil in my intercooler, not a lot but some he wiped out. I heard that this can be normal but he said I should get an oil catch can becuase oil in there can lower my octane rating by mixing oil, gas and air instead of just gas and air ? How much oil is normal in the intercooler and has anyone installed an oil catch can to a JDM STI-7 ? if yes, where can I get one from ?

Cheers,
Ray

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Ray,
I can't post pictures but on the passenger side under the intercooler on the block there is a spare bolt hole in line with the factory knock sensor thats were you want to fit it there are some engine stamp numbers there as well which you will see which comfirm your in the right spot.Thats were mines fitted on my bugeye.Hope thats of some help

john banks

Ray I hate to say it, but this is why I would never send an ECU for your car. In your climate with a JDM Scooby you really would be best running the standard ECU IMHO, and even then only run with a knocklink from day 1 and lots of NF to keep it quiet.

Trouble is your power zone where you have the problem is about where the ECU stops listening to det.

Yes sorting out the breathers may help a bit.

Razor2001

Hi guys,

Thanks gussy, I will have a look but I am still after a pic if possible as we looked everywhere and could not find a proper mounting area which is why we called LINK to ask them.

John,

Point taken; however, there are lots of people running similar spec in hot climates with no problems so I really think it is possible. Also, the car should be safer in theory becuase I had SS map it for 98 RON and hot climate vs. the standard 100 RON ecu.

What are your thoughts on the stacking of knock sensors as posted above ? Could the location of the new bosch sensor be having an affect, ie: picking up some weird frequency from the sensor below which could be cuasing noise on the KL ?

When you say 'sorting out the breathers may help' does this mean installing an oil catch can may help things by keeping the octane level up by not letting oil mix in there ? If so, can you recommend a brand of oil catch can ? Also, are there any drawbacks / downsides to installing an oil catch can ?

Thanks again guys and please someone try and track down a pic for knock sensor installation for a JDM STI-7.

Cheers,
Ray

RT

Ray, just a thought.
If you have deltadash, why don't you try taking 3-5deg out from the overall ign timing and see if that quietens the KL a little.

If so, that is your answer.

Razor2001

Hi RT,

I may give that a try.....what is the downside besdies losing power if I do this ?

Cheers,
Ray

PS: Please someone post a pic for knocklink location for a JDM STI7 as it is going into the shop tomorrow to have it relocated.

john banks

Ray, I vented my valve covers to atmosphere, and the crankcase to atmosphere. You could put filters on if you wish, or you could put catch tank(s) in the normal route back into the intake.

Retarding on Delta Dash is a very good idea. You could do this with the standard ECU to make it safer, don't need a remap to do that.

Since STis run quite rich anyway, the main area you can make them safer is to retard them which will lose power and torque.

Then increasing the boost to compensate tends to easily get you into flogging a dead horse.

In a hot climate running lower octane than intended, it is probably best to settle for less than standard power and torque if you want it reliable. If you want more power, you have to look to intercooling, breathing and bigger turbos far sooner than people do in say... Scotland. What I am saying is there is no free lunch.

Razor2001

Hi John,

Do you have a picture by anychance on exactly what tubes I need to vent to atmosphere / filter / coke cans ? and what I need to plug up ?

I happen to have my original ecu as I bought a new ecu and had that remapped (so basically I have two separate ecu's, one original stock and one SS ecutek remapped).

So what you are saying is when I asked SS to remmap my ecu for hot climate and 98 RON gas vs. Jap 100 RON gas all they could really do was decrease the timing ? Then they increased the boost to get back my gains etc ?

Don't forget I have a fully decatted turbo back zorst system with no cats, no restrictions period just plain old piping from turbo back to the actual SS muffler....doesn't this make it possible to increase boost etc becuase of the better breathing from the decatted zorst ?


Cheers,
Ray

john banks

Exhaust can free things up yes, but it is about the only thing going for you in your favour in keeping your engine together.

You could lean it out slightly with a map if you've lost the cats, but it is easy to go too far and overheat, especially without seeing the car.

So you are left with retarding the ignition. And then even more some to allow higher boost. It is very easy to end up with less power or torque and/or less safety by retarding and boosting an engine run in a very harsh environment (high ambient and lower octane )

Personally I would run the standard ECU, retard it 5 degrees on Delta Dash, and make sure the boost is running to factory spec with your decat on all across the range. Then add back some of the 5 degrees you took out with careful observation of your knocklink and use of octane booster. Stop when your knocklink shows any spikes and go back 2 degrees for safety margin.

Result = most reliable you can achieve in harsh environment IMHO. If you can't get the knocklink quiet and there are no faults, and you can't increase the octane, then you need a safety remap. And if you've already taken five degrees out and it still dets, it is probably time to run lower boost, or modify to reduce the detonation with other hardware.

The breathers - don't have photos, any competent mechanic should be able to vent your breathers without joining them together. There are other methods described in Andy F's thread that you brought to the top.

Razor2001

Thanks John,

Do you have any comments on the stock knock sensor and the bosch knock sensor being stacked on top of each and if this could be showing det on the KL becuase the sensor is not in the right place ?

Cheers,
Ray

Razor2001

Pete or Pat,

Any comments ?

Cheers,
Ray

john banks

I would put the knocklink sensor near but not on top of the OEM one.

Razor2001

Hi John,

I would like to do that but can't seem to find a place to mount it. This is why the installer called LINK in the first place because he could not find a place to mount the bosch sensor and the guy said mount it on top on the OEM one (stacked).

I am hoping to get a pic from Bretman or someone else that has a JDM STI7 to show where they mounted the little sucker

I am still having a hard time believing my car is really detting. Bretman and others have similar spec to me and are in a similar climate and have a KL that shows no problems ?

I have used DD to take to add 5 degrees on retard and I still get the amber lights, they do not come on as easy but they still come on under WOT high revs.

I have also run a new DD log from about 2k rpms to 7.6k rpms WOT in 3rd gear and everything seems ok. Timing looks ok, A/F looks good, knock correction all positive, advance multiplier = 11 ? I assume this is becuase it was at 16 then I retarded by 5 and this is why it is at 11 ?

Another reason I am wondering if the KL is actually showing det is why hasn't my engine exploded yet ? If I was running it the way it is for over 15,000 miles and it was detting shouldn't it have let go by now ? (boy I hope I don't put mouth on myself )

I am still confused on the whole oil catch can thing even after all the reading on posts in here etc.....seems like some say vent to atmosphere, some say stick it in a container to maintain vacuum ? not sure what to do.....was hoping to get a reply from Pete or Pat and ScoobySport on all my issues

Cheers,
Ray

john banks

Scoobysport ceased trading and are now open under new management.

A flashy knocklink for 15000 miles can be tolerated in some circumstances.


Your advance multiplier at only 11 means that the ECU is only adding 11/16ths of the ignition correction map, so the ECU has seen some detonation. However, the ECU may not be fully sorting all the det, especially if it is on gearchanges or at high RPM.

If it is still at 11 with a load of timing taken out, then the map may be too far advanced for your fuel/ambients, or there may be another fault on the car.

Razor2001

Thanks again John,

Wow, didn't know that about SS, are Pete and Pat still around ? I hope they didn't leave under bad circumstances...

OK, so I guess the 11/16 has nothing to do with me adding the 5 degrees of retard via DeltaDash ?

I am going to try a couple of things: relocate bosch sensor to the place where ever one else with a new age has theirs, stick back in my OEM ecu, setup of a catch can system or vent to atmosphere system to try and eliminate some of the oil in my I/C etc which may be affecting overall octane rating (still try to get hold of a pic or diagram on what to vent etc as there seems to be so many diff schools of thought on it)

Do you think I have done any permanent damage to the engine if it has been detting for the last 15,000 miles ? or should it be ok if I can get it back to det free ?

Cheers,
Ray

RT

I'm no tuning expert, but I have observed (from DD logging) that on the JDM STIs at 1.1-ish bar boost, the ign advance goes from 23deg (4000rpms) to 35deg (7000rpms). On a standard export model 220hp at the same boost levels, the ign advance goes from 11deg (4000rpms) to 19deg (7000rpms).

What this possibly says, is that even with minus 5deg out of the ign map on the JDM STIs, it may not be enough to compensate for 97-98RON fuel and hot weather. Difference at 7000rpms is a whopping 16deg in ign advance, if this is where you see your KL spikes, maybe thats the answer.

Having retarded 5deg and seeing less KL activity is a good starting point. Have you tried uprating yr fuel pump (running, say, about 3.2bar differential pressure) and/or water injection (1s kit)? I personally put the 1s kit first, which reduced KL activity on hot days. After that, I popped in the STI pump. Some months later, I stopped using the 1s kit out of curiosity, and the KL activity has not returned.

(Bugeye JDM STI RA 70000kms)

Razor2001

Hi RT,

I had an uprated walbro fuel pump put in when I put in the remmaped ecu.

I don't have a water injection kit as I am not sure anyone here would know how to install it and map it correctly as well as I would rather not have to use water injection if possible.

There must be some way for me to run a det free engine over here. Why did I have the ecu remmaped for 98 RON fuel and hot climate if it didn't do anything to help safety ? Getting more and more confused.

Anyone who wants to have a look at my recent 3rd gear blast DD log let me know.

Cheers,
Ray

marklemac

Here you go.

remove the intercooler.

locate the threaded hole with the number next to it.

Razor2001

Hi Mark,

Is that for a new age ? If so, it looks like that is a regular WRX, do you think that it makes a diff for a JDM STI7 ?

I assume you mean the empty threaded hole with the '263013' next to it ?

Cheers,
Ray

marklemac

I've got a MY02 STI and used this pictue to install mine.

Yep, the empty threaded hole with the '263013' next to it.

Razor2001

thx mark

Razor2001

bttt