peccy

whats the best techniques?

just had a sti 2.5 lump dropped in, running mineral oil for the first 1000, boost limited to 0.5bar and revs to 4000rpm.

been told not to hold at constant revs for long but to keep revving through the gears, is plenty of short journeys better or a few long ones to clock up about 1000 miles?

ps. gotta say, even at the moment the increase in low down torque is very noticable, 4th seems to pull like 2nd, cant wait to unleash it

David_Wallis

dont stress it.

David

AvalancheS8

Or do it this way...

Richard Askew

peccy

interesting article Avalanche.

ozzy

Like the man in that article says himself, it's a very controversial subject. Some say treat it with kid-gloves, others run the t!t's off it. I did a bit of both when I ran in my Scoob. 5yrs and 70K and it's still going strong [/touch wood].

I think the rebuild experts would be the best to comment.

Stefan

AvalancheS8

Isn't it. He makes a good case for it, and I can believe what he says but the thought of actually doing it on a brand new engine is a little nerve-racking. I think the critical thing if you did do that would be to change the oil and filter again straight after. So that would be oil change at 30 miles, 1000 miles....

ozzy

Isn't the oil Subaru use on new engines thinner than normal and it's that which is changed at the 1,000 mile service?

I thought that was the reason on a Subaru engine anyway. I guess if you were going to run it in hard, then (as you say) you would need to change the oil immediately.

Stefan

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

If you run in any API Engine the way this turkey's website recommends, your warranty will be Void.

Running a new engine hard as he suggests is a VERY BAD idea. Some points he makes are valid but not about cross hatching. Cross hatching is there to retain oil so as to lubricate the bores NOT to act like a file on the piston rings......Durr!!. By cross hatching, the oil is retained whereas an up and down line will pass oil either way or the straight across style allows oil to be lifted by the rings and pushed upwards into the combustion area.

I agree that droning up and down a motorway at 4000 rpm is not ideal, some raising and lowering of the revs is acceptable at even pressure on the throttle, hard flooring is not to be recommended.

We have a situation where an engine has been fitted at a dealer who correctly advised the guy to run in carefully for 1000 miles and after the first oil change, work the car gently harder until it has freed off before full throttle is applied.

The owner driver admitted that he had ' taken it easy for 1000 miles ' before ' caning it ' It is now DESTROYED with a piston that looks like a moon rock. Mileage now?? 1200 !!

Running in is an extremely subjective subject, I agree. However, there is no substitute for care and care does not include full throttle.

David API

peccy

think ill stick to the nice and easy method to be safe, with some gentle revving through the gears, cant do much else anyway at boost cut is 0.5 bar and the limiter as been moved down to 4000rpm.

Andy.F

Better not mention my preferred style, might fall out with David

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Personal choice Andy, we have to cover a warranty on all types of driver and circumstances. At least you are in control of your own circumstances.

We had a guy who asked us what he should do at the 1000 mile service when it became due, after he'd told us that he'd got 306 hp on a rolling road last week !!!!!!!

crusher

APIDAVID,
As you obviously know these engines well I'd like your opinion.I've got a 04stiuk with the PPP fitted. It's had the 1000 mile service and has 2500 miles on the clock. I've not yet fully exploited the rpm to the max,about 6500 in very short bursts is the max so far. How long does it take do you think for the engine to be approaching the stage where the full range can be used ie rev limiter...again only for short bursts during gear changes...without the possibility of damaging the motor. I understand that there are many surfaces that are wearing in rings/bores,cams/followers/ journals/bearings but firstly I'm interested to know which, in your opinion in this engine are the most vulnerable to damage and benefit from the extended( in my opinion) running in with semi synth until 10k? May I say at this point that as an enginneer and physicist that I am not condoning that rag the **** of it approach or meaning to critisise your earlier posts,I'm just interested in learning more about these engines and their idiosyncracies....

People recommend the fitting of fully synthetic oil after a normally quoted "7-10 "thousand miles...when I used to rally years ago my engines were run in for a lot less than the 2500 miles on the clock of my sti, and they were always run on fully synth oil from about 500 miles (car was also used on road,so not just an eventer)...I know the treatment is different with the engine getting toped and tailed regularly and oil control is not such an issue ,for example, but what sort of mileage constitutes a "run in" and ready for anything sti motor?...as my rally engines were always ok treated to an early fill of fully synth...and run hard from there on...

Hope you don't mind me asking!

powerman

Run it in the gentle way, the link suggest ripping the **** out of it to get better compression sels, but i dont think it will benefit the bearings etc...

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

why not stick to the tried n trusted methods the dealers suggest and never take over 4000rpm for 1000 miles. its worked since engines began and i think these guidelines will work for a lot longer

crusher

As I said in my first post I don't condone the drive it hard from birth method and am following the easy running 1000 mile service...then easy running,but increasing and varying the stresses imposed on the engine by using inceasingly higher revs and increasing throttle. My question is more to do with trying to find out WHEN this engine can be considered fully run in as I am keen to exploit it but don't want to damage it,and as I said my engine "feels ok", but as API nows them well I'm concerned that at my current mileage this may STILL be to early to exploit it to the max.
My experience with other motors is different to what seems to be ideal for impreza motors, I apppreciate the flat for is compact, has small journals etc.,sti's valve trains are designed with lightness in mind etc, but want to know if there's more to this running in of impreza motors than meets the eye, what ultimately are it's weaknesses...

A mate of mine has a kit car project underway that involves fitting a Suzuki Hyabusa motor in it that is brand new but it has been BRIEFLY dyno run before delivery to check that all was ok before delivery. He's been told that it's ready for anything...that's from the engine builder himself....it revs to 13k no probs...no special treatment...it runs Silkolene pro r oil from the word go....I know this is a bike engine but it still has the same fumdamental parts as any other engine,so why the hugh gulf in recommended strategies?....

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Crusher, Thanks for an interesting question or two. These views are mine and how we see things at API. There will be contra opinions some valid, some not so, in my opinion. We at APl believe that most people are hard pressed to cough up 2 - 3 grand for an engine rebuild and will be quite unhappy not to get a good length of life from it. We expect our engines to last as long as those built by Subaru ought to. [circumstances allowing]

Almost all manufacturers' engines take a while to 'loosen off ' which is akin to the end of the running in period. I would think that your engine at 2500 miles is beginning to loosen off nicely. They generally feel best at about 5000 miles upwards, but that is a different thing to running in.

When you see a decent standard power curve for a Subaru on a graph it is obvious that there is not much happening above 6500 RPM. In nearly all cases there is little point in going up any higher as nothing much is going to benefit from it. Changing up [ in most cases] at 6500-ish puts you right back in on the power curve of the next gear and the power delivery will impress all but the hardest of hearts.

Wring its neck out to 8000 rpm and all you are doing is making a lot of noise and wearing out a load of extremely expensive components to little effect.

When and when not to go to synthetic oil is personal choice. We advise 3000 miles from rebuild for our engines. And providing that you observe that 10W40 as the lowest viscosity that you dare to put in a Subaru turbo engine ANY of the big brand name oil manufacturers will do. This is very subjective as everyone has their favourites, mine is Mobil 1, never had a problem in my cars, Subaru or otherwise. Others will tell you ' don't do it.' I have a thing against Duckhams - so what? I just don't put it in my cars.

We also advocate oil changes at 3000 miles for ever. Japanese engines in general are built to tighter tolerances than almost all other cars and absolutely thrive on fresh oil. That black colour that oil goes is Carbon - what's the hardest substance known to man?? Keep the oil clean - that's my motto.

As for your car, I think that you can consider it fairly well run in and would advise that you can begin to use hard full throttle acceleration in moderate amounts [ it'll help lift off any odd few remaining high spots]. As always, watch the gauge [s] especially the temperature and also watch the oil consumption. They're about the only 2 indicators that you have in a modern car to let you see what is happening.

Ah well!!, let's see what responses I get from the above.

David API

crusher

Thanks for the reply David,
Interesting that you recommend fully synth at 3k...and watching the oil consumption. My last impreza was a MY99 which was treated to fully synth at 5k. I'd run it in as usually suggested with oil change at 1k,then it was taken through it's paces gradually until at around 3-4k felt like it had loosened up nicely. No noticeable oil consumption had occured by then or indeed by the time I sold the car. I always use Silkolene pro s 10/50...just a preference and as you say there are plenty of top brand name oils that can be used....I'd be interested to know if Motul would give different idle/ high temp oil pressure than Silkolene for example.
My current car feels eager now on a trailing throttle,and small inputs are greeted with an eager response..so I think your on the button as far as full throttle use is concerned, although as you say,high rpm is an engine destroyer,and even when eventing I always try to change before the extremes...droping back into the power band...the extreme redline rpm I always try to avoid...
My point really is that I think as long as you understand the role of running in/loosening up an engine and have some mechanical sympathy...earlier use of fully synth and full throttle is possible...it's the kane it in the first 2k that's the killer IMHO...
As a last query,how different is the 04stiuk engine internal spec to a P1?....only currious as I was looking at P1 internals very recently...
Regards Keith

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Keith, Not much difference at all really. Later engines have the 'eutectic ' pistons, which means whatever it does [!] Otherwise the variable valve timing is there for all to see.

The block has strengthening bars across the top of the cylinder liners where they used to be open in the phase 2 block.

The con rods are marginally strengthened and now have bolts instead of studs and nuts.

Later cranks are cross drilled to get more oil around the bearings, thats about all really. A natural progression and development.

I've probably missed something, but no doubt, someone will pull me up about it.

David

crusher

Thanks David, I had heard about the cross driling, there was mention of it with regard to whether it was an atempt to prevent some of the failures associated with no3 big end, can't do any harm if theres more oil there!...Good to now that block is strengthened, a partially closed deck I suppose...sometimes things can be over engineered, in the sense that material can be added thats not really doing anything,and less is sufficient. I wonder if the design engineers found that adding a brace was almost as good as fully closing the deck?....anyway,I digress, thanks for the info!
Regards,Keith
Ps, I used to be a Research and development engineer and can't help wondering "now why's that then!".....