Andy's TD05/06-20G fitted on my STi7
31 January 2004, 02:08 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fitted Andy's TD05/06-20G on my STi7. Some problems with one coolant pipe which doesn't fit below the STi's TMIC, but Andy will find a solution soon.
Car config : STi7, 2.5" sport cat exhaust, boost and AFR controller relative to RPM electronic devices. That's all !!!
Adjusted my electronic boost controller with 1.4 bar from 3500 to 5500RPM, the 1.35 from 5500 to 6500RPM then 1.3 bar up to the red line. Spool-up is not too long for such a big turbo, with 1 bar reached at 3100RPM (300 RPM later than with the stock VF35).
Adjust my AFR so that I have -4% of fuel before 6200RPM then +4% after (compare to the stock fuel MAP). There is a little margin so that with -4% fuel and 1.4 bar maintained up to the redline the car can reach 400 HP, even more with 3" decat bell mouth exhaust.
Still have few adjustements to be done, especially to obtain a flat torque curve between 4000 and 6000RPM
Thanks Andy, that's magic :-)
Road dyno in 4th :
Road dynos comparaison between VF35 and TD05/06-20G (1,6 bar with VF35 before 4500RPM, same pressures after)
Log in 4th :
[Edited by XNWRX - 1/31/2004 2:19:55 PM]
Car config : STi7, 2.5" sport cat exhaust, boost and AFR controller relative to RPM electronic devices. That's all !!!
Adjusted my electronic boost controller with 1.4 bar from 3500 to 5500RPM, the 1.35 from 5500 to 6500RPM then 1.3 bar up to the red line. Spool-up is not too long for such a big turbo, with 1 bar reached at 3100RPM (300 RPM later than with the stock VF35).
Adjust my AFR so that I have -4% of fuel before 6200RPM then +4% after (compare to the stock fuel MAP). There is a little margin so that with -4% fuel and 1.4 bar maintained up to the redline the car can reach 400 HP, even more with 3" decat bell mouth exhaust.
Still have few adjustements to be done, especially to obtain a flat torque curve between 4000 and 6000RPM
Thanks Andy, that's magic :-)
Road dyno in 4th :
Road dynos comparaison between VF35 and TD05/06-20G (1,6 bar with VF35 before 4500RPM, same pressures after)
Log in 4th :
[Edited by XNWRX - 1/31/2004 2:19:55 PM]
31 January 2004, 05:13 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: From Kent to Gloucestershire to Berkshire
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keep up Steve! Ch is as in chevaux (spelling?) i.e. french for horse. Puissance Ch = BHP. Looks to me its making in the 390s, so a little less than you at the PE RR day!
31 January 2004, 06:48 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks John ;-)
Still some adjustements to be made for a flat torque curve and maybe 10 more HP.
Good Hades, CH stands for "Chevaux" = Horses, so CV or CH = BHP
Sorry, but my soft only speaks French :-) but I'm sure you can cross-reference with English simply by looking at the curves.
[Edited by XNWRX - 1/31/2004 6:50:55 PM]
Still some adjustements to be made for a flat torque curve and maybe 10 more HP.
Good Hades, CH stands for "Chevaux" = Horses, so CV or CH = BHP
Sorry, but my soft only speaks French :-) but I'm sure you can cross-reference with English simply by looking at the curves.
[Edited by XNWRX - 1/31/2004 6:50:55 PM]
Trending Topics
31 January 2004, 08:23 PM
#8
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hi Xavier
Excellent result
How do the road dyno figures compare on a standard sti7 ? Does it display the same as the factory quoted power output ?
It would be very interesting to see a standard Sti7 power graph with the TD05/06-20G graph on the same page !
I will sort out the water pipe on Monday to allow you to fit your TMIC back down properly again !
I don't think I have seen anything like this power and torque from an Impreza on a top mount and 2.5" cat exhaust before
Andy
Excellent result
How do the road dyno figures compare on a standard sti7 ? Does it display the same as the factory quoted power output ?It would be very interesting to see a standard Sti7 power graph with the TD05/06-20G graph on the same page !
I will sort out the water pipe on Monday to allow you to fit your TMIC back down properly again !
I don't think I have seen anything like this power and torque from an Impreza on a top mount and 2.5" cat exhaust before
Andy
31 January 2004, 11:12 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Andy,
this road dyno is quite accurate. We found it to be a little bit optimistic when performed on a GT (maybe because we use wrong parameters), but it is quite accurate when used on an STi7/8.
I've seen some dynos performed on stock STi7 and results were between 250 and 270 HP with 350 to 360 Nm of torque, so not so far from the manufacturer's specifications.
I'll try to find out some performed on friend's car with that tool and post a comparison picture with mine, just as I've done with VF35 vs TD05/06-20G at same pressure.
I've already modified my adjustements so that I'm now flowing 1.5 bar before 4800RPM, and close the wastegate above 6700RPM, this should have flattened my torque curve and will protect the engine on top end. No dynos yet but I'll post them as soon as they will have been performed.
Last, I've never seen any compressor surge with that TD05/06-20G turbo, even when flowing 1,5 bar at 3500RPM. Neither I've seen any boost creep as I can adjust 0.8 bar at the red-line. That's fine.
Good Job Andy ;-)
this road dyno is quite accurate. We found it to be a little bit optimistic when performed on a GT (maybe because we use wrong parameters), but it is quite accurate when used on an STi7/8.
I've seen some dynos performed on stock STi7 and results were between 250 and 270 HP with 350 to 360 Nm of torque, so not so far from the manufacturer's specifications.
I'll try to find out some performed on friend's car with that tool and post a comparison picture with mine, just as I've done with VF35 vs TD05/06-20G at same pressure.
I've already modified my adjustements so that I'm now flowing 1.5 bar before 4800RPM, and close the wastegate above 6700RPM, this should have flattened my torque curve and will protect the engine on top end. No dynos yet but I'll post them as soon as they will have been performed.
Last, I've never seen any compressor surge with that TD05/06-20G turbo, even when flowing 1,5 bar at 3500RPM. Neither I've seen any boost creep as I can adjust 0.8 bar at the red-line. That's fine.
Good Job Andy ;-)
01 February 2004, 11:48 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only modifications are my electronic devices, 2.5" sportcat exhaust and sport air filter in air box.
Fuel pump, injectors and hoses are factory's ones (except hoses between turbo, T, soleno and wastegate). Stock STi7/8 hoses are quite good and do not need to be changed.
Fuel pump and injectors : I'm thinking about it, but still convinced that no problems with stock ones up to 400HP.
Fuel pump, injectors and hoses are factory's ones (except hoses between turbo, T, soleno and wastegate). Stock STi7/8 hoses are quite good and do not need to be changed.
Fuel pump and injectors : I'm thinking about it, but still convinced that no problems with stock ones up to 400HP.
01 February 2004, 02:36 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Didn't manage to find any road dyno for stock STi.
But here is one compare to an STi7 fitted with a 2,5" full de-cat Madac exhaust (mine is the same Madac but sport-cat). no other modifications.
He has not changed the restrictor in the Turbo to T hose, so this causes the boost (torque) spike around 4000RPM.
Interesting is that we can see on this comparison graph that a well-managed TD05/06-20G spools-up as fast as the stock car with decat exhaust :-)
But here is one compare to an STi7 fitted with a 2,5" full de-cat Madac exhaust (mine is the same Madac but sport-cat). no other modifications.
He has not changed the restrictor in the Turbo to T hose, so this causes the boost (torque) spike around 4000RPM.
Interesting is that we can see on this comparison graph that a well-managed TD05/06-20G spools-up as fast as the stock car with decat exhaust :-)
01 February 2004, 06:08 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: STi8 G spec (400+hp)
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent result Xavier...
If you don't plan to go much further, you can consider this option : uprating your pump and slightly raising your fuel pressure (let's say to an approx. 5%-10% more).
You will just have to substract some extra fuel below 6200 to keep on your targets, leaving correction more or less @ 0 above...
Lower IDC will sound better to me !
PS : Andy, any stock left ?
If you don't plan to go much further, you can consider this option : uprating your pump and slightly raising your fuel pressure (let's say to an approx. 5%-10% more).
You will just have to substract some extra fuel below 6200 to keep on your targets, leaving correction more or less @ 0 above...
Lower IDC will sound better to me !
PS : Andy, any stock left ?
01 February 2004, 07:57 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norup, Denmark
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great result,
Hmm,I must have the lowest output of these turbo´s,
Mark(EMS) have you tried to change the uppipe on the supersprint manifold??
Skassa
Hmm,I must have the lowest output of these turbo´s,
Mark(EMS) have you tried to change the uppipe on the supersprint manifold??
Skassa
01 February 2004, 08:56 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norup, Denmark
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No mine is the only one in Denmark with this turbo!.
But from the best i could get from the TD05FE and to this turbo is up 40hp and 40nm at the same boostpressure
Did you get the uppipe changed?
Skassa
But from the best i could get from the TD05FE and to this turbo is up 40hp and 40nm at the same boostpressure
Did you get the uppipe changed?
Skassa
01 February 2004, 10:53 PM
#19
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I'd agree with Mark, Skassa. You can't directly compare different measurement methods.
That's why I asked Xavier if he had a trace of a std decat Sti7 on the road dyno to overlay on his trace for a meaningful comparison.
The TD05FE is capable of similar top end power to a VF35 so a gain of 40-50 bhp seems credible in both cases.
The TD05/06-20G also appears to respond well to the VVT. I can't pull full boost in as early on the phase 1 cars as Xavier has done with his set up on the Sti7
Andy
[Edited by Andy.F - 2/1/2004 10:57:20 PM]
That's why I asked Xavier if he had a trace of a std decat Sti7 on the road dyno to overlay on his trace for a meaningful comparison.
The TD05FE is capable of similar top end power to a VF35 so a gain of 40-50 bhp seems credible in both cases.
The TD05/06-20G also appears to respond well to the VVT. I can't pull full boost in as early on the phase 1 cars as Xavier has done with his set up on the Sti7
Andy
[Edited by Andy.F - 2/1/2004 10:57:20 PM]
03 February 2004, 08:32 AM
#20
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel pump : I'm still convinced that the stock one is OK. Injectors limit the fuel flow to 30 L/H max (100% utilisation figure). I can't believe the stock fuel pump can't provide 30L/H with 4.3 bar. The STi's electronic fuel pump control device (33%, 66%, 100%) might be by-passed for better responds, but that's all !
Fuel pressure : Anybody knows which FPR to use ? I've heard a slight modification on the stock one can give 10% pressure increase ?
Injectors : AFAIK, running 11:1 AFR (I'm richer), STi's 505cc/mn are good for 410 HP, 440cc/mn are good for 350 HP and 380cc/mn are OK for 310 HP.
Fuel pressure : Anybody knows which FPR to use ? I've heard a slight modification on the stock one can give 10% pressure increase ?
Injectors : AFAIK, running 11:1 AFR (I'm richer), STi's 505cc/mn are good for 410 HP, 440cc/mn are good for 350 HP and 380cc/mn are OK for 310 HP.
03 February 2004, 02:51 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Upping the fuel pressure won´t help you as the standard fuel pump is not capable of holding pressure at high flow! Even at around 300 HP I saw pressure drop (about 0.2 - 0.3 bar) at high engine revs. It´s possible to map around that (as long as you have injector duty cycle available....), but I have a better feel with a pump that´s up to the job! (and doesn´t cost too much)
Skassa,
I didn´t test a modified uppipe yet.
Mark.
Skassa,
I didn´t test a modified uppipe yet.
Mark.
Last edited by EMS; 03 February 2004 at 02:53 PM.
03 February 2004, 04:31 PM
#22
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany / Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Andy: I'm driving a WRX 02 with STI injectors, Walbro fuelpump and VF34, decatted up- and downpipe (2,5"), midpipe still with cat and backbox from Supersprint. The car has been "ecutekked" and had 295 bhp and 380 Nm.
After a remap the engine got broken (I don't know yet if rods of piston).
My question: fitting the TD05/06-20G (after the repair), should I change pistons and rods?
And what power output could be expected with the above setup?
Federico
After a remap the engine got broken (I don't know yet if rods of piston).
My question: fitting the TD05/06-20G (after the repair), should I change pistons and rods?
And what power output could be expected with the above setup?
Federico
03 February 2004, 04:44 PM
#23
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I don't think uprated internals are a necessity unless you are aiming for over 400 bhp.
I have never run this turbo with a cat in the uppipe and would recommend a replacement straight through uppipe is fitted at the same time as the turbo. They are not too expensive (£100 ish)
In my opinion, 340-360 bhp should be attainable with appropriate remapping
Andy
I have never run this turbo with a cat in the uppipe and would recommend a replacement straight through uppipe is fitted at the same time as the turbo. They are not too expensive (£100 ish)
In my opinion, 340-360 bhp should be attainable with appropriate remapping
Andy
03 February 2004, 04:56 PM
#24
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany / Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Andy for the quick reply!
The cat is still in the midsection, but I'll probably replace it with a 100cell metal-cat.
You deliver the TD05/06-20G right? Can you mail me some price- ecc. data? Is the turbo "plug and play" for a WRX and do you know if there exists any basic map from EcuTek for it or if the map has to be "revolutionized"?
Regards, Federico
The cat is still in the midsection, but I'll probably replace it with a 100cell metal-cat.
You deliver the TD05/06-20G right? Can you mail me some price- ecc. data? Is the turbo "plug and play" for a WRX and do you know if there exists any basic map from EcuTek for it or if the map has to be "revolutionized"?
Regards, Federico
03 February 2004, 08:10 PM
#25
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hi Federico
Yes I can ship the turbos no problem. I can't talk prices on here so can you email me on andyf9000@hotmail.com as I can't seem to access your email address.
I recommend Bob Rawle at BRD for EcuTek remapping, he has mapped a few of these turbos now and has achieved good results.
Andy
Yes I can ship the turbos no problem. I can't talk prices on here so can you email me on andyf9000@hotmail.com as I can't seem to access your email address.
I recommend Bob Rawle at BRD for EcuTek remapping, he has mapped a few of these turbos now and has achieved good results.
Andy
04 February 2004, 10:18 AM
#27
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany / Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Mark,
do you think a performance of >300 HP and 390-400 Nm is realistic with my actual setup (STI injectors, bigger fuelpump, VF34, decatted up- and downpipe (2,5"), 100cell metalcat-midpipe, Supersprint backbox and a welldone EcuTek remap?
Federico
do you think a performance of >300 HP and 390-400 Nm is realistic with my actual setup (STI injectors, bigger fuelpump, VF34, decatted up- and downpipe (2,5"), 100cell metalcat-midpipe, Supersprint backbox and a welldone EcuTek remap?
Federico
04 February 2004, 11:26 AM
#29
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 3,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Federico,
What you list should be good for your power/torque targets no problems with the appropriate remap, only pending would be that (horrible!) Superspint backbox - the GT one's were pretty poor, maybe they've updated the design?
Whereabouts are you?
Richard
PS: depending where you are Mark @ EMS, Koch and myself can all assist with EcuTek mapping (although I'm not sure how much custom work Koch have done).
<edited because where have all the bloody profiles gone?>
What you list should be good for your power/torque targets no problems with the appropriate remap, only pending would be that (horrible!) Superspint backbox - the GT one's were pretty poor, maybe they've updated the design?
Whereabouts are you?
Richard
PS: depending where you are Mark @ EMS, Koch and myself can all assist with EcuTek mapping (although I'm not sure how much custom work Koch have done).
<edited because where have all the bloody profiles gone?
>
Last edited by dowser; 04 February 2004 at 11:27 AM.
04 February 2004, 12:27 PM
#30
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany / Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Richard,
I think we know each other from the Anneau du Rhin. I had a silver GT station like your blue one. This car is in Russia now...
My new one is the above WRX.
We'll be in touch reg. the remap as soon as the motor is repaired. Yesterday I already spoke to Richi.
Regards, Federico
I think we know each other from the Anneau du Rhin. I had a silver GT station like your blue one. This car is in Russia now...
My new one is the above WRX.
We'll be in touch reg. the remap as soon as the motor is repaired. Yesterday I already spoke to Richi.
Regards, Federico