911

Have a stock STiV3 with Blitz boost controller @ 1.31 bar = 314 bhp/280 lb ft.all on optimax. Stock ecu.etc.

If I simply bolt on a TD05 do I gain anything?
If I only want to bolt-on a turbo to ease the performance of the engine to around 350 can I achieve this without all the hassle of GEMS etc? I'm thinking of my RA trans, so nothing too gross.

What are these Andy F turbo's and if simply used to substitute for the current stock turbo will I gain anything other than a lighter wallet and grief?

Can i expect to approach the quest for a (little) extra from the engine in such a simple manner?

Graham.

TopBanana

A TD05 is a bigger turbo and will allow you to get more power. The came with 16g compressor wheels as standard, but you can use a 20g compressor in its place which trades a little low-end flow for high-end power (and lots of it!). Realistically you'll want a front-mount intercooler (see recent group buy - £350ish!), uprated fuel pump and regulator and bigger injectors (a current group buy - £265?), and probably GEMS or Link mangagement. With a 16g compressor, 350 is very achievable. With a 20g... who knows?? You were talking abuout a 2.5l bottom end a while ago - the 16g would be too small to take advantage of it really, so might be worth going for 20g upfront.

All to be taken with a handful of salt as I'm only regurgitating what I've learned on here. Haven't had mine under the knife yet but it's a matter of time...

hades

Simply bolting on the turbo without adjusting the map to suit is not a good idea. AFAIK, with the STi3, that means fitting some form of re-mappable ECU, of which there are several choices.

TopBanana

Yes you will need aftermarket engine management unless the ScoobyEcu boys sort out MY97/98 which they are currently looking at I believe.

Still, you can always buy a link and sell it for not too much less than purchase price when you sell the car.

Pavlo

350hp isn't going to happen on stock injectors with safety.

It is possible though. But I would suggest sticking with stock ECU, fitting a boost controller that can give a boost profile that varies with RPM live the Apexi AVCR (very good piece of kit to keep for other cars too). Then get a turbo, maybe a front entry td05 16g, VF35 or even a hybrid of eaither (both very good spooling units). Then run a nice fat midrange boost dropping to limit of injectors and inlet temps at top end.

Get an adjustable fuel pressure reg and use that to tune AFR for WOT and max load usage.

With knocklink and/or detcans check for det, lower boost, reduce inlet temps or add octane booster to keep det at bay.

That will be about the cheapest way to do it, and still have reliable results. They key i monitoring everything and being thorough. SHould be good for 330-340 hp on 440s with higher fuel pressure, which the FE td05 16g will certainly deliver. I would also enquire about getting the VF35 with it's small exhaust housing modified to give it some more puff, while it's not been done AFAIK I think it could be a very good solution.

Paul

911

thanks to everyone for the details, facinating!
Help me a little more:

I have a friend with a stock spec MY97 STI RA, except he has a GEMS, FMIC intet/filter in a cold box, full decat.
Everything else is stock, bog standard.

On G Force rollers gives a solid 348 bhp and 350 (I think) torque, all on Optimax. No booster.
Stock injectors, turbo etc etc. are retained, goes like a rocket up a hill climb, and gave a 480 bhp EVO 5 a fright (or two).

This seems very simple Paul, or do you not agree? Are the G Force rollers 'optimistic'?
He has a dog box and AP organic clutch and saw a big reduction in time to climb the hills.
I'm bothered that the GEMS is tricky on cold start/tick-over. Is that true too?

Graham.

Pavlo

I would check that your friend hasn't got raised fuel pressure, as that will lift power potential (via fuel flow). Also some cars are better than others, you always get good ones and bad ones.

GEMS should be fine for cold starts and stuff, maybe not as good as stock, but good.

Also, TEG are doing a new ECU for earlier cars, 97-98 coming out soon.

350 is possible on 440s with raised fuel pressure and everything else right, but I doubt it with standard ECU unless yours is suitable for the way it will run.

G-FOrce not especially optimistic, seems fine to me, although they don't calculate flywheel power, only fixed multiplier over wheel HP so might be odd results with short gearing, nothing major though.

Paul

TopBanana

Also his injector duty cycles may well have been way too high for sustained running

Pavlo

James,

that isn't the issue with high impedance injectors, don't forget they are liquid cooled!

The issue is that you may get to the point where they don't work properly, and get stuck half open, although I have never heard of this actually occuring except with older low impedance injectors.

Paul

TopBanana

Liquid cooled, whatever next? Sweet. Shows how much I know

Pavlo

injectors sit in fuel rail, fuel flows continuously though and around the injector, therefore they are liquid cooled.

You didn't seriously think they had a seperate water supply did you?

Paul

TopBanana

Heh heh coure not, I just didn't really think about it! I thought all fuel injectors worked like that and had read that they were prone to overhead / stick open > 90% IDC

911

I had my Blitz boost controller set up at Power Eng in north London.
The power run was 314 bhp @ 1.25 bar. Mervyn there said my injectors were at full duty, but during a hillclimb run the 'duty' is not sustained for long, ie full throttle for blasts of about 15/20 seconds, unlike blatting down Hanger Straight?

Sounds to me you need to do the 'full Monty' on a scooby engine to get reliable results, Turbo, injectors FMIC GEMS and then move(quickly) to the box! Are EVO's as bad?
I think it is good to get a STI v3 engine (only because everything fits)and build it up fromthere.
Paul, you seem to be a wizz kid on this, what would be your recipe for a £2500 budget on a v3 motor and what parts? Is a front entry turbo worth the agro? Which injectors.
Nothing exotic, just simple stuff for a high torque engine, ie 350/380 lbft.

Remember that budget!

Graham.

dowser

Re. the liquid cooling, not sure if this effect helps much - I was shocked way back when I swapped my fuel pump for the first time after a hard blast. Petrol in the tank was hot!

Been promising myself to fit a fuel cooler ever since, but will now monitor fuel temps with the spacers in first.

Richard

Pavlo

fuel cooler a good idea I think

paul