Timing Pulley
07 April 2001, 11:02 AM
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Returning from journey this morning and as I turned into my street the steering on my MY95 WRX went really heavy, no power steering. Pulled up onto driveway and opened bonnet to see that the alternator/power steering belt and also the belt to the air con pump had come off. Upon further inspection it appears that the timing pulley? at the bottom has become loose and was not sitting straight and eating into the cambelt cover. I have re-positioned the pulley so it is straight and tightened it up and replaced the belts. However upon start up there is a loud knocking noise coming from somewhere within the engine bay. Is it possible that the timing needs resetting? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks
Steve
Steve
07 April 2001, 11:32 AM
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Steve,
STOP EVERYTHING:
If the timing pulley has been moved, it's highly likely that the cams have also "jumped" and the "knocking" sound is the valves hitting the pistons.
Get it transported to a gararge, and checked out.
Hope I'm wrong, but if you've checked everything else, it's the only thing I can think of.
Mark.
STOP EVERYTHING:
If the timing pulley has been moved, it's highly likely that the cams have also "jumped" and the "knocking" sound is the valves hitting the pistons.
Get it transported to a gararge, and checked out.
Hope I'm wrong, but if you've checked everything else, it's the only thing I can think of.
Mark.
07 April 2001, 11:36 AM
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Hi there,
As Mark has said, get it checked.
The pulley you are talking about is the front pulley and isnt used for timing.
There is a secondary teethed wheel behind the timing covers that is used for cam timing.
This should be held in place by a metal bracket to prevent it sliding off.... but who knows.
Get it checked before driving it.
J.
As Mark has said, get it checked.
The pulley you are talking about is the front pulley and isnt used for timing.
There is a secondary teethed wheel behind the timing covers that is used for cam timing.
This should be held in place by a metal bracket to prevent it sliding off.... but who knows.
Get it checked before driving it.
J.
07 April 2001, 08:20 PM
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Steve,
It may well be that although you have tightened the pulley bolt up, that the pulley is not aligned with the woodruf key in the crankshaft.(its the small strip of steel that should locate in a machined groove inside the pulley.)
If you undo the pulley bolt, and remove the pulley, check that the woodruff key is not damaged, and look inside the bore of the crank pulley, for evidence of damage.
On my friends MY93WRX, when we removed the front pulley, after the engine began knocking loudly, there was a section of the pulley had effectively been machined away by the woodruff key, and instead of a neat slot in the bore of the pulley, there was a counterbored section part way around.
It is difficult for me to explain what this looks like, but try removing the pulley, check for damage, and replace it if it is, along with the woodruff key.
But at least once removed, you can ensure that on refitting, you correctly align the slot within the pulley, with the woodruff key, allowing the pulley to sit correctly on the end of the crank.
If it is not sat correctly, it may well still be rocking, and causing the noise you can hear.
Cheers MTR
It may well be that although you have tightened the pulley bolt up, that the pulley is not aligned with the woodruf key in the crankshaft.(its the small strip of steel that should locate in a machined groove inside the pulley.)
If you undo the pulley bolt, and remove the pulley, check that the woodruff key is not damaged, and look inside the bore of the crank pulley, for evidence of damage.
On my friends MY93WRX, when we removed the front pulley, after the engine began knocking loudly, there was a section of the pulley had effectively been machined away by the woodruff key, and instead of a neat slot in the bore of the pulley, there was a counterbored section part way around.
It is difficult for me to explain what this looks like, but try removing the pulley, check for damage, and replace it if it is, along with the woodruff key.
But at least once removed, you can ensure that on refitting, you correctly align the slot within the pulley, with the woodruff key, allowing the pulley to sit correctly on the end of the crank.
If it is not sat correctly, it may well still be rocking, and causing the noise you can hear.
Cheers MTR
08 April 2001, 12:36 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I have removed the front pulley completely this morning and, like MTR has said the woodruff key has counterbored around the inside of the front pulley. Both the front pulley, the woodruff key and possibly the timing pulley and pretty knackered, so will hopefully get it checked out ASAP.
Thanks again
Steve
Thanks again
Steve
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11 April 2001, 07:07 PM
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The above mentioned knocking noise was in fact the pulley itself, when I removed it completely and gingerly started the engine things sounded fine. Drove to my local dealer (only five mins away thankfully, no power steering or alternator!). They now have the car and have informed me that the crankshaft is also damaged and needs to be replaced. OUCH!!! On the upside hopefully the slight oil leak it has will be sorted and they are replacing my leaky powersteering pump with the second hand one that I have for no extra charge.
Steve
Steve
11 April 2001, 09:17 PM
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Steve,
No money left for easter eggs now then
Sounds unfortunate.
My friends car had some evidence of marking on the end of the crank, but given that it is not a bearing journal, he just replaced the pulley, woodruff key, and bolt, and everything was OK.
To remove the woodruff key he stripped off the timing belt covers, timing belt and tensioner, and crankshaft timing pulley, and confirmed for himself that the timing pulley(the toothed pulley behind the one you have removed) was OK, then I gave him a lift to put it all back together.
Unless the end of the crank is severely damaged, I think a crank swap, given the likely cost, is a bit hasty.
Why not let them show you how badly? a new pulley fits on the end of the crank.
If it locates on the crank and woodruff key without any play, then surely its worth a try.
Just an idea.
Cheers MTR
No money left for easter eggs now then
Sounds unfortunate.
My friends car had some evidence of marking on the end of the crank, but given that it is not a bearing journal, he just replaced the pulley, woodruff key, and bolt, and everything was OK.
To remove the woodruff key he stripped off the timing belt covers, timing belt and tensioner, and crankshaft timing pulley, and confirmed for himself that the timing pulley(the toothed pulley behind the one you have removed) was OK, then I gave him a lift to put it all back together.
Unless the end of the crank is severely damaged, I think a crank swap, given the likely cost, is a bit hasty.
Why not let them show you how badly? a new pulley fits on the end of the crank.
If it locates on the crank and woodruff key without any play, then surely its worth a try.
Just an idea.
Cheers MTR
12 April 2001, 05:53 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Steve Gibbins:
<B> They now have the car and have informed me that the crankshaft is also damaged and needs to be replaced. OUCH!!! On the upside hopefully the slight oil leak it has will be sorted and they are replacing my leaky powersteering pump with the second hand one that I have for no extra charge.
Steve [/quote]
I agree with MTR. The 20 quid for replacing the PS pump is going to be insignificant if the car needs a new crank.
<B> They now have the car and have informed me that the crankshaft is also damaged and needs to be replaced. OUCH!!! On the upside hopefully the slight oil leak it has will be sorted and they are replacing my leaky powersteering pump with the second hand one that I have for no extra charge.
Steve [/quote]
I agree with MTR. The 20 quid for replacing the PS pump is going to be insignificant if the car needs a new crank.
12 April 2001, 08:00 PM
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Steve,
This afternoon I have been talking to one of the mechanics at Robinsons Subaru,whilst getting a malicious puncture repaired (some little sh*t screwed a self tapper into my tyre) about your garages recomendation to replace the crank (about £350 for the crank he thinks + fitting, gaskets etc).
Anyway they had a Justy that had the front pulley come loose, and damaged the end of the crank. They replaced the woodruff key and pulley, and it has never had any problem since.
Obviously I do not know how your crank compares to the Justy he has knowledge of, but as we both concluded, the forces acting on the auxillary drive belt for the alternator, power steering pump, and air con, and therfore acting on the crank pulley should not be that extreme.
And if a new pulley fits onto the 'damaged crank' without exhibiting undue play, then surely that must be worth a go.
I really think you should suggest that to the garage before you part with £400+ for a replacement crank, on top of the cost of the replacement pulley (about £90 from Subaru).
If you do go ahead with the crank swap, I think you should insist on retaining the old crank, as it is your property.
It also ensures that they really do swap your crank.
Not for a minute suggesting some unscrupulous garages would charge for items fitted which in reality haven't been fitted.
Even after seeing a bill to my insurance company for a £300 rear bumper replaced on my first Impreza, which I KNOW they did not replace. And ther insurance company didn't give a toss when I phoned them.
Cheers MTR
[This message has been edited by MTR (edited 12 April 2001).]
This afternoon I have been talking to one of the mechanics at Robinsons Subaru,whilst getting a malicious puncture repaired (some little sh*t screwed a self tapper into my tyre) about your garages recomendation to replace the crank (about £350 for the crank he thinks + fitting, gaskets etc).
Anyway they had a Justy that had the front pulley come loose, and damaged the end of the crank. They replaced the woodruff key and pulley, and it has never had any problem since.
Obviously I do not know how your crank compares to the Justy he has knowledge of, but as we both concluded, the forces acting on the auxillary drive belt for the alternator, power steering pump, and air con, and therfore acting on the crank pulley should not be that extreme.
And if a new pulley fits onto the 'damaged crank' without exhibiting undue play, then surely that must be worth a go.
I really think you should suggest that to the garage before you part with £400+ for a replacement crank, on top of the cost of the replacement pulley (about £90 from Subaru).
If you do go ahead with the crank swap, I think you should insist on retaining the old crank, as it is your property.
It also ensures that they really do swap your crank.
Not for a minute suggesting some unscrupulous garages would charge for items fitted which in reality haven't been fitted.
Even after seeing a bill to my insurance company for a £300 rear bumper replaced on my first Impreza, which I KNOW they did not replace. And ther insurance company didn't give a toss when I phoned them.
Cheers MTR
[This message has been edited by MTR (edited 12 April 2001).]
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