Greetings,

Some months ago I acquired from Scoobysport the ITG filter and the sccobysport backbox (the car is a MY99 Impreza Turbo).
About three weeks ago, when I was pushing the car in 4th gear, I felt a sudden loss of power, and the car stopped shortly to a halt.
The car was towed to the local Subaru dealer (Portugal), which now tells me that the filter caused the damage to the engine (melted piston).
According to their theory, as a result of the change of filter, the air flow sensor was giving wrong information to the ECU, which caused an incorrect mixture of fuel.
I am not taking this explanation too seriously, as I fail to understand how a simple filter can cause such a problem.

Can anyone help me, please?

António Correia Jr.

 

What a load of BS!!!!??? Anybody got a BS-meter?

I <B>seriously</B> doubt that a new panel filter, along with a new bb would make the car run dangerously lean.

The bb won't make flow dramatically better, there are 2 cats in front of it hampering the gasflow....and a foam filter instead of a paper one doesn't mean diddly-squat.

I'd have to say that your dealer is feckin' U over mate.

Give 'em hell.



RGDS

/Jerry - Sweden

 

Hey,

Whats a MAF Sensor ?

Does my car have one ?

J.

 

Sorry to hear about the problems you have suffered with your car and understand your obvious frustration that such simple mods appear to have led to a problem

The ITG and ALL other aftermarket filters do not meet Subaru's filtration standards for 99MY cars. That's why we do not fit a filter as part of our 99MY performance package.

The reason that Subaru have tightened their filtration standard is the the airflow meter on 99 & 2000MY cars is very sensitive to both particulate and fluid contamination and when contaminated can give false readings.

Imagine a scenario where some small dust particles have got onto the metering surface and partially covered it, leading the airflow meter to believe less air is passing it. It then gives less fuel and you have a weaker mixture. The consequences are obvious.

In our tests on previous models the power gain was negligible anyway, so all you really get is more risk of a problem which it looks like you have now suffered.

Regards

Mike

 

This would be very easily checked though, get someone to check the MAF.
If it's contaminated with oil from the ITG (probably not), Mike's got a point.

If the MAF is squeeky clean and intact - I'd say <B>give 'em hell</B>.



[This message has been edited by SecretAgentMan (edited 22 September 2000).]

 

É pena ser por um motivo tão grave e desgradável que encontro um conterrâneo nesta BBS.

Agora em Inglês para toda a gente perceber!
------------------------------------

Sorry to know what happened to your car António, but I agree that you should have your MAF sensor checked to see if it is contaminated. If it is not ,I think you should demand another explanation from the dealer and in the absence of a convincing one call "DECO" (consumer rights defense organization in Portugal) and see what is their advice in this situation.

About the third parties panel filters:

I own a MY98 Impreza and fitted a K&N panel filter some Km ago. About 3 weeks ago I got a check engine light warning and went to the Subaru service. There they said that it was the MAF sensor that originated the check engine warning. Apparenly the MAF sensor was dirty and a cleaning operation solved the situation. Until now no more problems and my Subaru dealer did not advert me about the use of a third party panel filter or about any of the consequences it could cause.

So, should I go back to the original paper panel filter in order to avoid risks of blowing my engine because the MAF sensor going nuts??

Gustavo

 

Hi J,

Whats a MAF Sensor?

A MAF sensor is a Modifying Arsehole Finder. Its function is obvious.

Does my car have one?
Only when it's being driven.

lol...
Nito

ps. Sorry to hear about the car Antonio!!

[This message has been edited by NITO (edited 22 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by NITO (edited 22 September 2000).]

 

lol @ Nito

I believe it's a Mass Air Flow sensor, measuring the amount of air going into the engine.

 

I nearly believed your for a minute Nito... Ok maybe a second.

Thanks Secret... *to be honest.. I dont think Nito actually knew*

I still cant find the MAF Sensor on my car.

J.

 

Thanks for all your comments (the decent ones, of course!).
I'll check the MAF sensor ASAP (probably Monday) and take some pics with my camera for future reference.

I have, however, some new questions:
- If the ITG filter is not “safe”, why is Scoobysport selling it? Their “passion for Imprezas” has been widely recognized.
- Mike has a point. But if the MAF is so sensitive, I gather I could have the very same problem with a standard filter. Dust particles are everywhere! I remember that when I exchanged the my filter, the original was quite dirty. In that case, can I consider this problem a construction fault ?

I thank in advance any further comments.

António Correia Jr.

 

lol@firefox

There couldn't be a strange reason behind U not finding the MAF? *lmao*

 

I actually ran an ITG for 3 months - no problems whatsoever, no dirt or grease on the intake tubing...checked while installing another product. *hehe*

 

I'll try to redeem myself somewhat for my unconstructive comments!!

As Mike says, the '99/00 models are extremely sensitive to filter changes. I think this problem could be further emphasised by the fact that there is a lot more dust in the air in somewhere such as portugal than in the UK.

There have been numerous threads about filters causing contamination of the '99/00 model airflow meter usually resulting in dodgy running with the car stalling at tickover and surging at low revs.

The reason behind it was that the design of the later units use a hot film as oppposed to a hot wire and so are much more sensitive to contamination as they don't burn the crap off as easily if you'll excuse the technical explanation.

Originally the problem tended to manifest itself with cars running the HKS induction kits and everyone claimed it was due to them being pre-oiled (put down to the oil entering the inlet tract and causing contamination) and so the craze went to Blitz dry air filters. It may be that the HKS allows more air through it/filters less so that the problems appeared earlier than with cars running different filters. I use the HKS filter on the MY98 car and the inlet pipe is as clean as a whistle. I have no personal experience with the '99 or '00 models only through the numerous threads that appear regarding this. I don't know if any BLitz eqipped cars have had problems yet.

I don't think you could claim it is a construction fault unless standard cars with standard filters have had similar problems. The filtration standards certainly seem to be more stringent for the later models.

As for ScoobySport, again you will have to ask Pete if there have been any failures on '99/00 models here in the UK. It maybe that the ITG performs ok here in the UK were there is less dust than over there in Portugal. It seems strange that the car should melt a piston without any tell-tale signs or strange behaviour from the car.

It could be the dealer trying to wriggle their way out of a claim. How long was the filter fitted for? Like 007 (aka: secret agent man)says, look to see if there are signs of contamination in the inlet tract, like you said taking photos is a good idea.

It seems a lot of damage for just a filter change but it may be an unfortunate combination of higher temperatures, large amount of dust in the air, and poor quality fuel (not sure what ron there is in portugal).

I hope it gets sorted as economically as possible.

Good luck
Regards,
Nito

 

Hi Antonio

It would be very easy for your dealer to point to the filter and exhaust, saying that these were to blame, but I do not believe this is the cause.

If you want, I will have your MAF tested at an independant laboratory.

We do have a passion for Imprezas and all of the products that we sell are designed for the car, not adapted from some other car.

We have sold over 3000 ITG filters in the past 2.5 years. Yours is the first car to fail with one fitted. This leads me to believe that the product is completely reliable.

We also supply these parts to Subaru dealers in the UK and official Subaru Importers in other parts of the world, including hot dusty climates, like your own.

I have seen many failed MAF sensors and when this part does fail, the car will normally not run at all. When MAF sensors have been contaminated, as has been common with several cone filters, the car just stops. No one has ever melted a piston when the MAF has failed, that I know of.

I think you should check the pipe work to the Manifold Pressure Sensor and the integrity of this sensor, as reading less boost than was being produced is the most common cause of this type of engine failure.

I remain 100% confident in the ITG filter.

 

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your comments (I did send you an e-mail a couple of days ago about this).

I am interested in what you said: "We also supply these parts to Subaru dealers in the UK and official Subaru Importers in other parts of the world, including hot dusty climates, like your own."
Can you e-mail or fax me some documents that I can submit to my Subaru dealer?

I'm still having trouble accepting my Subaru dealer's explanation, since I do mostly street racing (unfortunately there are no tracks available here). Not once did I take the car to gravel.

Moday morning I'll have a photo session at Subaru (I'll keep this forum posted).

By the way, can I still have confidence in the car when the engine is rebuilt?

Thanks,

António Correia Jr.

 

Pete, also interested in your comments about exporting your products overseas. Have you exported any stock to dealers in Hongkong? as there are plenty of scoobies here, but market seems to be only japanese kit.

Antonio, I think it would be very easy for the dealer in portugal to blaim an overseas supplier of aftermarket kit on what may in fact be a genuine warranty claim...this has also happened to myself The fact that the supplier is overseas makes it harder for you to prove, so I hope the MAF test is OK and you can prove your dealer wrong.

Andy

 

If the problem is that piston number 4 has failed then this is a known fault, the fix from Subaru UK is a full new short motor and the problem starts as piston slap but I have not heard of it melting a piston. As every one else has said I would go and get the car looked at by someone else.

Darren.

 

I realise this is an old thread, but it rings alarm bells for me. My 98 Legacy GTB is factory standard, but look at what happened in mid November 2000.....






Look familiar? I don't thrash my car, I don't race my car and I don't do track days. Subaru New Zealand have repaired the car at a cost to me of NZ$3000 (1000squid) but it shows that these motors are fragile!

My next car will likely be a lazy, understressed V8......

 

Hmm ... det city in there, what fuel were you using to do that much damage ? It didn't happen overnight either. What cylinder was it ?
Bob

 

Yeh, the bull5hit detector is flashing

Main dealers will suggest the ITG filter as an aftermarket option. Surely they wouldn't supply it if there was a possibility of problems - not fit for the purpose etc.

Martin

 

António

Your agent is obviously pulling a swifty on you. I live in Singapore and have seen many of my friends car bust their MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor due to oil based pod/cone filters. Mine included!

If you are still on the factory ECU, the error code 23 will be flagged and your check engine light will show once your MAF is faulty. Your car will also drive like a dog, with idling and acceleration issues!!!

IMHO.... If the ITG filter screwed up your MAF, you will know it immdiatly as the wrong fueling will result in knocks, A/F problems causing your CHECK LIGHT to come on.

Hope this info helps!

Douglas
ps: anyone using the K&N panel filter? I've been running this for 12 months now with no issues except the one occasion when I over-oiled the filter and busted my MAF.

 

Douglas
Iv`e been using the K&N panel filter for about 18 months with absolutly no problems (s***, thats tempting fate?) I haven`t looked at it since the day I put it in (the K&N that is!) although having read previous threads on this subject I have been tempted to put the original one back.
JohnD

 

Bob Rawle,

Sorry to take so long to reply- I just got my car back a week ago and I'm falling in love all over again! The piston pictured is the left front and I have no idea abot which number that is.

The fuel was tested and fell within the acceptable range according to Subaru New Zealand, in other words, 96 octane (or near enough). I'm using 98 octane now it's become available down here and the car seems to run no differently.

It's hard to know what has really happened and Subaru don't even know. They said they suspect that a drop of oil has worked it's way into a very hot combustion chamber, but I think that can't be it. The total job was NZ$5000 and it cost me $3000, with Subaru paying the remainder.

I feel a bit shafted actually as I'd only had the car 7 months and it has only 45,000km of standard road use. Never mind, it's nice to have it back.