ScoobySport vs. ScoobyMania Exhaust
17 January 2001, 12:13 AM
#1
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Hi Tim
The Scoobysport downpipe is 3" and tapers to 2.5" just in front of the centre section. We found this gave the best balance between mid range punch and upper rev power. It is designed to reduce spool up time of the turbo and does this very well.
Our exhaust parts have been designed to improve the overall driveability of the car, particularly for cross country, recreational driving. As Chris says, a 3" system can show a couple of bhp more at the very top of the rev range, but this is always at the expense of torque in the 2500 to 5000 rpm band. If just fitting a backbox, the gas will have passed through Subaru's 2.25" pipework for 2/3rds of the system before it reaches the backbox and anything over 2.5" will show little or no gain.
With regards construction, every single part is stainless steel. The pipe, the perforated tube, the flanges and especially the welds. Some systems use mild steel flanges, perforated tube and weld wire.
The Subaru WRC car also uses a full collection downpipe and 2.5" centre/rear... on gravel and tarmac.
The Scoobysport downpipe is 3" and tapers to 2.5" just in front of the centre section. We found this gave the best balance between mid range punch and upper rev power. It is designed to reduce spool up time of the turbo and does this very well.
Our exhaust parts have been designed to improve the overall driveability of the car, particularly for cross country, recreational driving. As Chris says, a 3" system can show a couple of bhp more at the very top of the rev range, but this is always at the expense of torque in the 2500 to 5000 rpm band. If just fitting a backbox, the gas will have passed through Subaru's 2.25" pipework for 2/3rds of the system before it reaches the backbox and anything over 2.5" will show little or no gain.
With regards construction, every single part is stainless steel. The pipe, the perforated tube, the flanges and especially the welds. Some systems use mild steel flanges, perforated tube and weld wire.
The Subaru WRC car also uses a full collection downpipe and 2.5" centre/rear... on gravel and tarmac.
17 January 2001, 09:09 AM
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I am thinking of investing (?) in a new back box and was going for the scoobysport - until I heard of Scoobymania.
Attached below is their explanation of the difference in the 2 systems.....
As anyone experience of the Scoobymania vs. scoobysport backbox/system ?
Thanks
Tim
______________
The differences are as follows:
Down pipe: Scooby Sports down pipe is only a 2.5" single pipe,ours is a twin dump pipe which lets the gasses flow better,ours is also a 3" pipe.
Centre pipe: Here again the Scooby Sport centre pipe is only 2.5" and ours is 3".
Back box: Scooby Sports back box is again only 2.5 " ours is 3" tail pipe design
I am not sure of,but ours is 4" tail piece but back at an angle.
The sounds are a completely different.
I have driven a car with a Scooby Sport system on and it's very intrusive in the
cabin ours is not at all.
Scooby sports is very loud,but ours is very deep,very similar to a rally car when
on full throttle.
Then there is the price Scooby Sport system = 530 quid. Scooby Mania system=500 quid
As you can see there is £30.00 difference.
Attached below is their explanation of the difference in the 2 systems.....
As anyone experience of the Scoobymania vs. scoobysport backbox/system ?
Thanks
Tim
______________
The differences are as follows:
Down pipe: Scooby Sports down pipe is only a 2.5" single pipe,ours is a twin dump pipe which lets the gasses flow better,ours is also a 3" pipe.
Centre pipe: Here again the Scooby Sport centre pipe is only 2.5" and ours is 3".
Back box: Scooby Sports back box is again only 2.5 " ours is 3" tail pipe design
I am not sure of,but ours is 4" tail piece but back at an angle.
The sounds are a completely different.
I have driven a car with a Scooby Sport system on and it's very intrusive in the
cabin ours is not at all.
Scooby sports is very loud,but ours is very deep,very similar to a rally car when
on full throttle.
Then there is the price Scooby Sport system = 530 quid. Scooby Mania system=500 quid
As you can see there is £30.00 difference.
17 January 2001, 10:23 AM
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Tim,
I think it is generally accepted that a 3 inch bore compared to a 2.5 inch bore, lowers the torque output of the car but raises the power output due to moving the torque higher up the rev range.
I have an STI 5 Type R with full SS exhaust and the difference from standard is that the car feels slightly more torquey at around 3000-4000 rpm, and also holds onto its power more towards the redline. I have been driven in the Scoobymania car (also an STI 5 Type R) and I would say that the car felt noticeably less torquey than my own car , which on face value seems to substantiate the supposed difference between the 2 bore sizes.
As for the loudness of each system - they are both pretty loud !
Quality of both systems seems high with the Sccobymania exhaust looking the better finished of the 2. On my (and some other peoples) SS exhaust the fit around the joint between centre and back sections is a bit close to the rear diff causing knocking on bumps/ hard driving.
One last point to note is that a gravel spec WRC Scooby uses a 2.5 inch bore to give good low down torque. So which one you go for would depend on where you want the gains, torque or top end power.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
I think it is generally accepted that a 3 inch bore compared to a 2.5 inch bore, lowers the torque output of the car but raises the power output due to moving the torque higher up the rev range.
I have an STI 5 Type R with full SS exhaust and the difference from standard is that the car feels slightly more torquey at around 3000-4000 rpm, and also holds onto its power more towards the redline. I have been driven in the Scoobymania car (also an STI 5 Type R) and I would say that the car felt noticeably less torquey than my own car , which on face value seems to substantiate the supposed difference between the 2 bore sizes.
As for the loudness of each system - they are both pretty loud !
Quality of both systems seems high with the Sccobymania exhaust looking the better finished of the 2. On my (and some other peoples) SS exhaust the fit around the joint between centre and back sections is a bit close to the rear diff causing knocking on bumps/ hard driving.
One last point to note is that a gravel spec WRC Scooby uses a 2.5 inch bore to give good low down torque. So which one you go for would depend on where you want the gains, torque or top end power.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
17 January 2001, 01:44 PM
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Tim,
I've not heard the Scoobymania system, but, having just had the Scoobysport system fitted, I can tell you it's fantastic. The turbo spools much quicker and pulls all the way through the rev range and the noise is superb.
Basically the transformation is unbelievable. Not sure if this helps you much or not
Matt
MYUK99
I've not heard the Scoobymania system, but, having just had the Scoobysport system fitted, I can tell you it's fantastic. The turbo spools much quicker and pulls all the way through the rev range and the noise is superb.
Basically the transformation is unbelievable. Not sure if this helps you much or not
Matt
MYUK99
17 January 2001, 05:55 PM
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Guys
My 99 STI Type R has the Scoobymania 3" system fitted.
My torque comes in at about 2250 rpm and by the time it has reached 3750rpm it has peaked at 266 lbf-ft + 283 bhp, or at least thats what my dyno-graph reads from Powerstation in December.
The car pulls like a train,it really stabs you in the back.
So, imho, i don`t see where all this `larger bore = torque higher up the rev range` comes from.
All i can say is whats on my Dyno sheet.
Paul
My 99 STI Type R has the Scoobymania 3" system fitted.
My torque comes in at about 2250 rpm and by the time it has reached 3750rpm it has peaked at 266 lbf-ft + 283 bhp, or at least thats what my dyno-graph reads from Powerstation in December.
The car pulls like a train,it really stabs you in the back.
So, imho, i don`t see where all this `larger bore = torque higher up the rev range` comes from.
All i can say is whats on my Dyno sheet.
Paul
17 January 2001, 08:10 PM
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Cwal1
There is little (if any at all) direct evidence to support the notion that a 2.5 inch system will perform better within the low to mid range that would make it better than a 3 inch system.
At the speeds/revs being discussed, there would be very little difference in the restriction caused by poorer gas flow of a 2.5 inch system.
Any system is nominally only as wide as its narrowest point as that is where gas flow is at its worst. <I>(Imagine the M1 at rush hour dropping down from 3 lanes to 2, that would restrict flow in the same way as the narrowest part of any exhaust system).</I>
Our 3 inch system does allow faster spool up of the turbo, bear in mind when chasing dyno absolute figures that the time element is as important as the actual total figure and revs at which achieved.
For Example.
Volvo 740 can do 155MPH, (Takes 50 seconds to get there)
Westfield SeiGHT can do 155MPH (Takes 20 seconds to get there).
Totally dissimilar cars weights etc. but the point is that time is relevant to power. (Or should that be the other way around)?
This sometimes transitions across to give the feel that "work being done" (torque) feels lower as the car picks up so much faster that you whiz straight through the torque and into the power.
Mike.
There is little (if any at all) direct evidence to support the notion that a 2.5 inch system will perform better within the low to mid range that would make it better than a 3 inch system.
At the speeds/revs being discussed, there would be very little difference in the restriction caused by poorer gas flow of a 2.5 inch system.
Any system is nominally only as wide as its narrowest point as that is where gas flow is at its worst. <I>(Imagine the M1 at rush hour dropping down from 3 lanes to 2, that would restrict flow in the same way as the narrowest part of any exhaust system).</I>
Our 3 inch system does allow faster spool up of the turbo, bear in mind when chasing dyno absolute figures that the time element is as important as the actual total figure and revs at which achieved.
For Example.
Volvo 740 can do 155MPH, (Takes 50 seconds to get there)
Westfield SeiGHT can do 155MPH (Takes 20 seconds to get there).
Totally dissimilar cars weights etc. but the point is that time is relevant to power. (Or should that be the other way around)?
This sometimes transitions across to give the feel that "work being done" (torque) feels lower as the car picks up so much faster that you whiz straight through the torque and into the power.
Mike.
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17 January 2001, 11:25 PM
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Mike.
My Scorpion system has a 2.5" d/p, a 3" centre section and a 4" tailpipe, yet as you know has always got some of the highest figures on the rollers (except PS
)
Do you think your system's 3" all-the-way design is perhaps better suited to imports/larger turbo'd Scoobs?
Stef.
My Scorpion system has a 2.5" d/p, a 3" centre section and a 4" tailpipe, yet as you know has always got some of the highest figures on the rollers (except PS
)Do you think your system's 3" all-the-way design is perhaps better suited to imports/larger turbo'd Scoobs?
Stef.
18 January 2001, 07:13 AM
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Tim
You start by mentioning you want a new backbox and then go on to describe the entire system.
If the Scoobymania is 3" all the way through and you're only changing backbox....how does it fit onto the OE 2.5" centre?
Also, if you're only doing a backbox to an otherwise unmodified Eurocar and don't plan any further mods; just go for the sound/looks that you like. You'll find no difference in performance.
IMHO......
Richard
You start by mentioning you want a new backbox and then go on to describe the entire system.
If the Scoobymania is 3" all the way through and you're only changing backbox....how does it fit onto the OE 2.5" centre?
Also, if you're only doing a backbox to an otherwise unmodified Eurocar and don't plan any further mods; just go for the sound/looks that you like. You'll find no difference in performance.
IMHO......
Richard
18 January 2001, 12:02 PM
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Tim,
I have had the Scoobysport DP and backbox fitted last weekend.It sounds fantastic! The turbo spools up quicker,and the car pulls strongly from 2500-to when you bottle out.Torque has improved too,you can definitely feel it.In my Lancia days people used to say if you go to big bore on the pipe,you could start pissing oil out of the exhaust,something with too little back pressure.
hope this is of help.
ski
I have had the Scoobysport DP and backbox fitted last weekend.It sounds fantastic! The turbo spools up quicker,and the car pulls strongly from 2500-to when you bottle out.Torque has improved too,you can definitely feel it.In my Lancia days people used to say if you go to big bore on the pipe,you could start pissing oil out of the exhaust,something with too little back pressure.
hope this is of help.
ski
18 January 2001, 07:00 PM
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I heard £500 versus £530
But I thought the Scoobmania was £580? - cheap compared to a full BPM system
The last time I saw a Scoobysport price list a full system was over £700 - have Scoobysport come down in price
If the Scoobmania system sounds like my (rusting badly stainless steel - per the invoice) BPM exhaust then I'll be getting one soon. I have heard the Scoobysport and it was not 'throaty and deep enough' - each to their own I suppose. I'm not after a Peco type noise but a nice Boomy noise - and yes I have heard the SS exhaust - and no I'm not getting at Scoobysport at all
But I thought the Scoobmania was £580? - cheap compared to a full BPM system
The last time I saw a Scoobysport price list a full system was over £700 - have Scoobysport come down in price
If the Scoobmania system sounds like my (rusting badly stainless steel - per the invoice) BPM exhaust then I'll be getting one soon. I have heard the Scoobysport and it was not 'throaty and deep enough' - each to their own I suppose. I'm not after a Peco type noise but a nice Boomy noise - and yes I have heard the SS exhaust - and no I'm not getting at Scoobysport at all
19 January 2001, 09:42 AM
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Ski,
My daughters go to Rednock, so the inevitable taxi service up and down the A38 ensues - I'll keep an eye out for you - DBM UK99 with gold wheels.
Matt
My daughters go to Rednock, so the inevitable taxi service up and down the A38 ensues - I'll keep an eye out for you - DBM UK99 with gold wheels.
Matt
19 January 2001, 11:58 PM
#16
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Matt,
I think I have seen your car around,is it the one with 17'gold six spokes?My car is MY00 red mica(LHD),no big alloys yet.Are there any SIDC or other type meetings in our area?
Ski.
I think I have seen your car around,is it the one with 17'gold six spokes?My car is MY00 red mica(LHD),no big alloys yet.Are there any SIDC or other type meetings in our area?
Ski.
20 January 2001, 02:41 AM
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The little I have seen of Scoobysport in this country [Australia] and visiting the Scoobymania website reveals to me why I am so happy with my BPM GT system.
The quality of welds is superb, the fact you can have cat/catless option without having to reweld , the HPC coating , attention to detail and a muffler that is so beautiful I am considering having an affair. 
And of course I forgot to mention my exhaust outperformed 14 manufacturers for overall power and torque gain across the ENTIRE powerband.
So keep squabbling amongst yourselves.
The truth is out there
Craig
Now with 190 kw at the wheels.
The quality of welds is superb, the fact you can have cat/catless option without having to reweld , the HPC coating , attention to detail and a muffler that is so beautiful I am considering having an affair.
And of course I forgot to mention my exhaust
outperformed 14 manufacturers for overall power and torque gain across the ENTIRE powerband.So keep squabbling amongst yourselves.
The truth is out there
Craig
Now with 190 kw at the wheels.
20 January 2001, 09:27 AM
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Ski,
sounds like me, I've seen a DBM STI around, but it's only got 16" gold wheels.
LHD eh, where did you get it from?
There are quite a few meets which aren't too far away, not that I've ever been. But the closest regular occurences are rolling road shoot outs at Powerstation in Cheltenham, where mine is going on the 3rd to see if all the extra power I can feel from the SS down pipe and mid comes through on figures - here's hoping
See you around
Matt
sounds like me, I've seen a DBM STI around, but it's only got 16" gold wheels.
LHD eh, where did you get it from?
There are quite a few meets which aren't too far away, not that I've ever been. But the closest regular occurences are rolling road shoot outs at Powerstation in Cheltenham, where mine is going on the 3rd to see if all the extra power I can feel from the SS down pipe and mid comes through on figures - here's hoping
See you around
Matt
21 January 2001, 10:54 PM
#19
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Matt,
I bought the car from Holland,HUGE savings on Lhd.Came in very useful on a trip to France and Spain last October.
Tell me your results from the session at PowerStation.I must go there my self and check it out.I am tempted my there Motec ecu.But must find more info first.
Seeya, Ski
I bought the car from Holland,HUGE savings on Lhd.Came in very useful on a trip to France and Spain last October.
Tell me your results from the session at PowerStation.I must go there my self and check it out.I am tempted my there Motec ecu.But must find more info first.
Seeya, Ski
22 January 2001, 08:51 AM
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Ski,
Went there last year, and with 97 RON fuel, a SS back box and ITG filter it was putting out 228.5bhp and 218 lb/ft.
I'll let you know how I get on - have you got an e-mail address? If so mail me offline and I'll keep you informed.
Matt
Went there last year, and with 97 RON fuel, a SS back box and ITG filter it was putting out 228.5bhp and 218 lb/ft.
I'll let you know how I get on - have you got an e-mail address? If so mail me offline and I'll keep you informed.
Matt
29 January 2001, 01:48 AM
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Peter Croney implies that there was forethought to the bore on his downpipe where in actuality the reason that his downpipe goes down to 2.5" is none other than the fact that it can then be bolted on to the O.E.M. mid section. (Remember that his downpipe was available way before his full system).
DO NOT BE MISLED BY ILL INFORMED SO-CALLED EXPERTS! Backpressure severely hampers torque as well as power.
It is also idiotic to compare a WRC car with a road car. Why not compare a BTCC with the road version as well? LOL
DO NOT BE MISLED BY ILL INFORMED SO-CALLED EXPERTS! Backpressure severely hampers torque as well as power.
It is also idiotic to compare a WRC car with a road car. Why not compare a BTCC with the road version as well? LOL
29 January 2001, 10:08 AM
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I'll be able to answer this question soon enough.
Currently I have a full SS system (well Magnex de cat midsection, but before that is was a full SS system) and now have in my boot a SM system.
Granted that will be fitted to the car with lots of other mods at the same time but I will give you my honest opinion soon enough.
So far I have been please with the SS system, it gives amazing real results without going into the boll0x of Dyno results. Its what you feel on the road that matters. I recently opted to try the SM system because it looked well very built and after reading alot about the thermal dynamics of a turbo car, it seems in theory a twin dump system has to work better.
A full report on my car soon.
SJD
Currently I have a full SS system (well Magnex de cat midsection, but before that is was a full SS system) and now have in my boot a SM system.
Granted that will be fitted to the car with lots of other mods at the same time but I will give you my honest opinion soon enough.
So far I have been please with the SS system, it gives amazing real results without going into the boll0x of Dyno results. Its what you feel on the road that matters. I recently opted to try the SM system because it looked well very built and after reading alot about the thermal dynamics of a turbo car, it seems in theory a twin dump system has to work better.
A full report on my car soon.
SJD
29 January 2001, 08:45 PM
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Do the right thing get the Hayward Scott from scoobysport if you stand on the pit wall at oulton you can not only hear the difference you can feel the difference oh and i also now get 17 m.p.g. instead of 15 m.p.g. ( Sti 5 ra ) aswell as greater low down grunt which lets face it is more relevant on the road than any top end rush !
Regards
Tim
TKH
Regards
Tim
TKH
29 January 2001, 09:27 PM
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I don't know about the differences between the ScoobySport/ScoobyMania in a technical sense but I opted for the scoobymania because :
a. I liked the sound of it.
b. price.
c. I've been in a car with both systems and for me the ScoobyMania felt better.
I also liked the 'be a bit different' thang. That is not supposed to be derogatory to the ScoobySport system, I just wanted something else.
WRT the difference it has made I am nothing short of shell shocked. I can honestly say that the car has scared me again, like it did when I first got it.
At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference but I am happy with the route I chose, I would suggest that you get yourself to a track day or whatever and see which you like best.
my 2p's worth
Matt
a. I liked the sound of it.
b. price.
c. I've been in a car with both systems and for me the ScoobyMania felt better.
I also liked the 'be a bit different' thang. That is not supposed to be derogatory to the ScoobySport system, I just wanted something else.
WRT the difference it has made I am nothing short of shell shocked. I can honestly say that the car has scared me again, like it did when I first got it.
At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference but I am happy with the route I chose, I would suggest that you get yourself to a track day or whatever and see which you like best.
my 2p's worth
Matt
30 January 2001, 12:18 PM
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I have the same car as Mike (Mike@PD) I have an ss backbox, he has the SSbackbox and downpipe (standard centre) His car rockets to the redline like nothing on earth and seems to be quicker than mine as a result. But it is quite loud with the downpipe. My backbox knocks around like hell over speedramps too. Even going slowly. I can shake it with my hand and hear it knock. Does anyone have the same problem? I'll have to give pete a ring.
Scotty.
Scotty.
