BOBB

ok, newbie alert

I'm lookign for basic info on the impreza 4wd system, so if any of you guys know the answers or can point me in the right direction i would appreciate it loads

what makes the impreza system good in bad conditions ?
viscous couplings ? Does it have them ?
Has the system changed much over the years ? is the system in the new model changed from the current car ?
How is the power split ? am i right in thinking its 60:40 front biased ?

My main reason for asking is cos of my experiences in a bmw recently. They don't like the snow do they > Its gotten to the point now that the bmw just looks like a large deposit on an impreza now

thanks for your time

later..bobb

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hi Bobb and welcome, check out

BOBB

well other front wheel drive cars were doing fine, but the beemer just hated it. Banged into 2 walls in the space of 10 mins

"The ultimate driving machine....if its dry"

I'm presuming that impreza's are very capable in bad conditions ? Cos the car would need to drive through the lake district loads in the snow. For that reason i don't want very wide wheels, but i'm presuming that the standard alloys arn't very wide ? Either way its going to be way better than the beemer

Thanks for the info.

later..bobb

sasim

IMHO I would say that the normal high performance tyres (S02, F1, Toyo,....) are ****e in the snow, very little grip going round corners. If you are going to do a lot of driving in the snow then you should consider getting proper winter tyres, which will give you much better directional control.

I have seen 1.2 Nova's and 1.0 Fiesta's going better in the snow cos of their skinny tyres.

Stuart

GaryC

Having towed a Merc of a car park yesterday, and driven up streets litter with stuck RWD and FWD cars with no wheels spin, yes the impreza is a lot better grip-wise in the snow. BUT remember, when the wheels arn't driving (coasting/braking) it is a no-wheel-drive and will slip and understeer like any other wide tyred car out there.

Once you get used to catching a slide with more throttle you will make good progress (and have fun ) it is a leap of faith though

Having driven 140 miles on A & B roads on Thursday in up to 6" snow, and passed dozens of abondoned cars and several vehicles in ditches, I can vouch for the Scoobs snow performance (on 17" SO2s). But it is no chunky wheeled Landrover.

You would get better snow performance out of your beemer if you just fitted snow tyres, but that would mean keeping the beemer

BOBB

Are you talking about the tyres that actually come with the car as well ?
Forgive my ignorance, but this is my first look at seriously buying an impreza
I'm looking for the car to be competant in the dry / wet, but also be good in the snow / ice as well. I'm willing to sacrifice some of the grip in the dry so that the car has a more even performance overall. I.e. Spending cash on p zeros, etc.. is not a priority.
Is it general concensus that the cars do not perform well in the snow / ice 'straight out the box' ?

Thanks for your time

later..bobb

GrahamF

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BOBB:
[B]well other front wheel drive cars were doing fine, but the beemer just hated it.

So you have a front wheel drive beemer? Must be the only one in captivity.

Standard Subaru wheels are 6x15 or 7x16 - at least as wide as the beemer. And they understeer an ice just the same as any other car. However, touch the handbrake and keep the power on and 4 wheel slides are no problem!

BOBB

>>You would get better snow performance out of your beemer if you just fitted snow tyres, but that would mean keeping the beemer

Oh god, don't say that

Either way the impreza should be better in the snow, the tyres are not that much wider, and it has front biased 4wd.

Now, i'm new here, so don't shout at me But can i raise the potentially sore subject of the new model impreza Does anyone know if the 4wd system has changed at all ? Is it better / worse ? Is the power more progressive ? If it is then that will be better in slippery conditions, right ?

Thanks

later..bobb

sasim

Having re-read my last post above, I realise that I can say some proper s***e late at night.

What I should have said is that in general cars with skinny tyres perform better in the snow that cars with wide high performance tyres on FWD & RWD vehicles.

The Impreza however is a very competant car in all conditions, but like all vehicles (big 4x4's included) it will slide about on hard snow and ice. It has the combination of FWD understeer & RWD oversteer in one package, so it can be a handfull if you are not carefull.

Having said that I have found it to be very good in a straight line on the slidy stuff.

This is my first winter with one, so I am on a huge learning curve at the moment, but so far I have not slid into any kerbs, or ended up facing backwards.

Stuart

p.s. find a big deserted car park and play

Dave T-S

bobb
Tyres will make far, far more difference than MY00 -v- MY01 differences. Actual tread pattern is also crucial to performance on snow.

In the snow you need basically as little tyre tread as possible on the road (within obvious limits i.e. I doubt if my Scoob would perform very well on my mountain bike tyres, but, then, they would probably be better than the standard RE010 tyres ).

In the dry, it is a question of friction so (within limits, again) the more rubber you put on the road the better - like slicks.

In the snow, there is virtually zero friction thus no grip. The more actual tyre area (footprint) on the road means less physical pressure from the tyre on the road, and thus the less grip because there is less pressure per square inch on the snow. So, you need as little actual rubber on the road as possible to increase the pressure on the road/snow per square inch to increase the friction and thus the grip.

Snow tyres have individual tread blocks with large gaps in between for two reasons. Firstly, the more air space between the tread blocks means the less actual rubber on the road thus the more physical pressure per square inch, more friction, more grip etc.

Secondly, if there are large air gaps between the tread blocks it throws the snow out as the tyres rotate and keeps them clean. Many tyres become useless in the snow because the gaps fill up with snow and stop the rubber being in contact with the road. Snow turning on snow = even less grip!!

Genuine snow/winter tyres also have a high silica content which aids grip.

[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 30 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 30 December 2000).]

logiclee

Bobb,

The UK Impreza's power is split 50/50 so is not front biased. You have to get used to its understeer/oversteer tendencies on snow. Some Jap models do have adjustable centre diffs.

When slowing down or stopping you in the same boat as everyone else and because of the AWD system you tend to be going a little faster. Its easy to get caught out.

At the end of the day swap the BMW!!!

Lee

BOBB

Ah, ok, so what gives the impreza the trademark understeer that happens when it looses grip ? I had always put it down to having a front biased 4wd setup. (know i'm sliding (sorry ) of topic here a bit)

thanks for your time

later..bobb

logiclee

Bobb,

Subaru set the suspension/steering up for understeer so its safer for the general public. Changing the geometry to prodrive settings or getting the PE bump steer mod can combat this. The Impreza can bite with sudden oversteer especialy when lifting off power mid bend. The main problem being the speeds are so high when it starts to get out of shape.
Subaru have listened to some of the complaints as the new Impreza has less understeer.

Cheers
Lee

DJB

This is my 5th winter with an Impreza turbo and living in Scotland, I have probably seen more snow than those down south.

I have found that grip in the snow is generally good and I have rarely had a problem with traction even in the worst conditions. I did however find that when the snow first arrived a few days ago, traction was unusually very poor. My four tyres were quite worn (particulary the rears) so I decided to change all four slightly earlier than planned. This has made a big difference to both traction and braking. With ABS, braking is difficult in the snow in any car.

As has been stated above, wide tyres and snow don't go well together (whether the car is FWD, RWD or 4WD). I don't think that we encounter bad weather conditions often enough to consider changing to narrower tyres (and wheels) or to winter tyres. You would have to change back to normal tyres when the weather improved and I would find this unacceptable.

I have heard that the 5 dr has a different power distribution to the 4 dr (I think 40:60) and I have certainly not had any trouble with understeer in my 5 dr. With severe provocation it will tend to oversteer and this straightens up with less throttle (I don't seem to get lift off oversteer).
Other 5 dr owners have had similar observations.

D.

BOBB

thanks for the replys guys, this forum is pretty busy Very handy

If i do end up getting an impreza then it would almost definatly be a 5dr, they do look slightly less nickable, and much better for the dog in the boot

I see that logiclee mentioned that the understeer had been address to a degree in the new model, but has anyone actually had a chance to try this out ? Also, could anyone suggest a good dealer in the edinburgh region ? I hear that Perth and Aberdeen were offering parts and servicing discounts for SIDC members, are there and edinburgh area dealers that are good and offer the same deal ?

Also, has anyone managed to find a tyre that is a good balance between general road tyre, and one that is good in the snow / ice ? Am i right in presuming that native winter tyres are quite a soft compound ?

Thanks again guys, hope you all have a good new years

later..bobb

Dave T-S

Good all round tyres particularly in snow/on ice - look for something with a tread pattern that is open with plenty of gaps, particularly lateral ones - i.e. for example only, a Pirelli P zero will probably clog up on snow more than a Bridgestone S02PP.

Also, if you can get the technical gen, something with a higher silica content.

Kevin Groat

Bobb,

Putting things in perspective, I had an E30 318i (5 yrs) followed by a 325 TDS SE (3 yrs), the BMW 3 series is THE worst car in the world on snow - reckon even the Reliant 3 wheeler is better !!. I've had my 5 door STi 3 through the last two winters on road tyres and its performance in snow is still better than any front or rear wheel drive cars. I've also owned 2 Subaru estates over the last 5 years and provided you're careful, you'd be surprised where you can go in the snow even on barely legal road tyres. As for the understeer, it is a problem, believe later cars are better but it is a problem that can be resolved by fitting some decent front struts and springs.

BOBB

Yeah, i had heard the 3 series was bad on the snow / ice, but it was the 2 walls it came into contact with recently that really gave weight to the argument

Thanks kevin, that is the kinda of thing i want to hear You don't work on commision basis do you ?

later..bobb