Help-Engine Noise
27 December 2000, 12:22 AM
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Hi Pete,
Piston slap isn't a common problem. From people who've experienced it before, it sounds like a cold diesel engine. If it's just a light tappety sound, it's probably your solid lifters.
For more information, try this URL:
Piston slap isn't a common problem. From people who've experienced it before, it sounds like a cold diesel engine. If it's just a light tappety sound, it's probably your solid lifters.
For more information, try this URL:
27 December 2000, 10:48 AM
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At start up on my 98 Terzo there seems to be a lot of engine noise particularly a rattle/loud tapping.Could this be the tappets or some thing more serious? It does tend to go away when the engine is at normal operating temp.(Car has done 34,000 miles). Any help would be appreciated, i just hope its not the dreaded piston slap i've heard so much about!
30 December 2000, 03:43 AM
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Sure, here it is There are dozens of threads on piston slap in the egroups, you should really check it out.
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Santa Maria wrote:
> A while back , someone posted something about piston slap on their
> MY98 (I think it may have been James Pickering)
It was me.
> Can you fill me in on what this sounds like and what sort of Km you
> noticed it at? How loud is it? ie is it only audible if the stereo's
> off etc?
It sounds very much like a cold diesel engine. I can't make judgements
regarding the volume of your stereo. I noticed it immediately after
getting a replacement first gear (which was faulty from new), at before
20,000km's - I don't remember the exact distance, the car is now at
43,000km's. It is clearly audible inside the car just above idle,
especially when the engine is under load (eg easy takeoff). It lasts for
at least 15 minutes of normal driving. Outside the car it is very obvious
even from a distance. This winter, the car has been rattling for my entire
journey to and from work every day.
> I've recently noticed (ie only since its been cold) on my Oct 97 MY98
> a sort of knocking sound, I can best describe it as similar sound to a
> diesel engine, the noise is most noticeable when the car is started
> from cold and in cold weather and is noticeable for about 5 minutes
> but only at low revs, once going, the engine noise drowns it out. I
> complained about it last service, about a month ago, but the dealer
> said it was normal. Once the car is at operating temp the noise is not
> noticeable. but if your listening for it, at extremely low revs under
> load, eg when inching the car into a parking spot or garage, the noise
> is audible, with the windows down or from outside the car.
You have accurately described the noise I experience (excepting mine takes
much longer to disappear).
> What I would like some feedback on is, Does the WRX typically get
> noisier around the valve gear as it gets older / more KMS? Mine has
> just under 25,000 km which is quiet low for a car of it's age. It is
> driven to work daily about a 12Km round trip but with such short
> journeys I guess the engine does get fairly worn. Although I never
> exceed 4,000 rpm until I have let the car run / driven for at least
> 10-15 minutes (ie til the oil warms up)
Mine is not substantially louder than when I first noticed it, however it
now lasts longer.
I always warm the car up including about 2 minutes in the driveway in the
morning while I fill in the log book, lock the garage, etc. I then drive
sedately changing under 4,000km's until the engine and gearbox warm up. I
do a 16km round trip to the city generally avoiding peak hour. I have a
turbo timer fitted which does allow the fans to operate while idling. I
always idle the engine before switching off. I have had cars last way past
typical use-by date using this method. Anyone who's owned a > 160,000km
1982 Mitsubishi 4cyl on its original rings and not blowing any smoke would
know the benefit of properly warming up cold engines.
My car is a March 1998 build.
I requested a formal response from Subaru in writing following the most
recent of many stays at the dealer.
The formal answer from Subaru (written by the dealer) is as follows:
"After your vehicle was inspected by Steve Kennett from Subaru Australia,
we were told that this particular Subaru vehicle, over a 12 month period,
were fitted with non-skirted pistons and gudgeon pin in a different
position to aid in better piston roll over on TDC. This was done to help
with better top end performance & less piston/ cylinder wall wear. Slight
piston noise is a must in this particular model on warm up to allow for
expansion.
There is no after market replacement piston with skirts for this model
because of crank throw. New pistons and boring cylinders will result in
the same outcome."
The dealer could not reconcile his above words with the 4 other cars
demonstrating piston slap in their yard, which were built over a 24 month
period. All were pre-MY99.
The dealer could not reconcile his above words with the fact that only one
piston in my car has noticeable piston slap (out of 4).
The dealer was adamant that a rocking piston would not score the bores in
any way, and there was no chance of blow-by.
I am disappointed with Subaru Australia (IMA) and my dealer over this. I
know of incidences overseas and in Australia where people are getting
replacement pistons and bored cylinders to resolve precisely these
symptoms. Even if that is only a temporary fix, that is what I believe my
rights are under the terms of the warranty. At the very least that not
leave me in my current position of trying to sell something that sounds
like a tractor.
I now am looking at replacing my Subaru with something of higher quality.
I was quite disappointed to hear that IMA also operate the VW brand in
Australia because I have found the customer service from VW dealers to be
exemplary, whereas the customer service from my dealer has been
substandard, even considering the fact that they primarily sell Hyundais.
The new look WRX will lead to some confusing model lineups there I'm sure.
I hadn't posted this follow-up beforehand due to workload (unlike some
companies, customer service is important to me), and awaiting a judgement
from Consumer Affairs, however I feel that those people currently putting
their faith in IMA based on the good name that Subaru hold overseas, even
through related importers, should be aware of this instance where a
regularly serviced 2 year old car allegedly does not qualify for warranty
work to rectify a glaring quality issue.
Incidentally, I was informed that Mr Kennett had noted my MRT brake master
cylinder support bracket on the cars service record. In what must be a
blatant condemnation of MRT's professional image and that of their
customers, in Mr Kennetts opinion the presence of this bracket clearly
indicated that my car had been "thrashed at the track".
--
+--------------------------------------------+
/ James Pickering /
/ Email: jamesp@a... /
+--------------------------------------------+
There are dozens of threads on piston slap in the egroups, you should really check it out.On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Santa Maria wrote:
> A while back , someone posted something about piston slap on their
> MY98 (I think it may have been James Pickering)
It was me.
> Can you fill me in on what this sounds like and what sort of Km you
> noticed it at? How loud is it? ie is it only audible if the stereo's
> off etc?
It sounds very much like a cold diesel engine. I can't make judgements
regarding the volume of your stereo. I noticed it immediately after
getting a replacement first gear (which was faulty from new), at before
20,000km's - I don't remember the exact distance, the car is now at
43,000km's. It is clearly audible inside the car just above idle,
especially when the engine is under load (eg easy takeoff). It lasts for
at least 15 minutes of normal driving. Outside the car it is very obvious
even from a distance. This winter, the car has been rattling for my entire
journey to and from work every day.
> I've recently noticed (ie only since its been cold) on my Oct 97 MY98
> a sort of knocking sound, I can best describe it as similar sound to a
> diesel engine, the noise is most noticeable when the car is started
> from cold and in cold weather and is noticeable for about 5 minutes
> but only at low revs, once going, the engine noise drowns it out. I
> complained about it last service, about a month ago, but the dealer
> said it was normal. Once the car is at operating temp the noise is not
> noticeable. but if your listening for it, at extremely low revs under
> load, eg when inching the car into a parking spot or garage, the noise
> is audible, with the windows down or from outside the car.
You have accurately described the noise I experience (excepting mine takes
much longer to disappear).
> What I would like some feedback on is, Does the WRX typically get
> noisier around the valve gear as it gets older / more KMS? Mine has
> just under 25,000 km which is quiet low for a car of it's age. It is
> driven to work daily about a 12Km round trip but with such short
> journeys I guess the engine does get fairly worn. Although I never
> exceed 4,000 rpm until I have let the car run / driven for at least
> 10-15 minutes (ie til the oil warms up)
Mine is not substantially louder than when I first noticed it, however it
now lasts longer.
I always warm the car up including about 2 minutes in the driveway in the
morning while I fill in the log book, lock the garage, etc. I then drive
sedately changing under 4,000km's until the engine and gearbox warm up. I
do a 16km round trip to the city generally avoiding peak hour. I have a
turbo timer fitted which does allow the fans to operate while idling. I
always idle the engine before switching off. I have had cars last way past
typical use-by date using this method. Anyone who's owned a > 160,000km
1982 Mitsubishi 4cyl on its original rings and not blowing any smoke would
know the benefit of properly warming up cold engines.
My car is a March 1998 build.
I requested a formal response from Subaru in writing following the most
recent of many stays at the dealer.
The formal answer from Subaru (written by the dealer) is as follows:
"After your vehicle was inspected by Steve Kennett from Subaru Australia,
we were told that this particular Subaru vehicle, over a 12 month period,
were fitted with non-skirted pistons and gudgeon pin in a different
position to aid in better piston roll over on TDC. This was done to help
with better top end performance & less piston/ cylinder wall wear. Slight
piston noise is a must in this particular model on warm up to allow for
expansion.
There is no after market replacement piston with skirts for this model
because of crank throw. New pistons and boring cylinders will result in
the same outcome."
The dealer could not reconcile his above words with the 4 other cars
demonstrating piston slap in their yard, which were built over a 24 month
period. All were pre-MY99.
The dealer could not reconcile his above words with the fact that only one
piston in my car has noticeable piston slap (out of 4).
The dealer was adamant that a rocking piston would not score the bores in
any way, and there was no chance of blow-by.
I am disappointed with Subaru Australia (IMA) and my dealer over this. I
know of incidences overseas and in Australia where people are getting
replacement pistons and bored cylinders to resolve precisely these
symptoms. Even if that is only a temporary fix, that is what I believe my
rights are under the terms of the warranty. At the very least that not
leave me in my current position of trying to sell something that sounds
like a tractor.
I now am looking at replacing my Subaru with something of higher quality.
I was quite disappointed to hear that IMA also operate the VW brand in
Australia because I have found the customer service from VW dealers to be
exemplary, whereas the customer service from my dealer has been
substandard, even considering the fact that they primarily sell Hyundais.
The new look WRX will lead to some confusing model lineups there I'm sure.
I hadn't posted this follow-up beforehand due to workload (unlike some
companies, customer service is important to me), and awaiting a judgement
from Consumer Affairs, however I feel that those people currently putting
their faith in IMA based on the good name that Subaru hold overseas, even
through related importers, should be aware of this instance where a
regularly serviced 2 year old car allegedly does not qualify for warranty
work to rectify a glaring quality issue.
Incidentally, I was informed that Mr Kennett had noted my MRT brake master
cylinder support bracket on the cars service record. In what must be a
blatant condemnation of MRT's professional image and that of their
customers, in Mr Kennetts opinion the presence of this bracket clearly
indicated that my car had been "thrashed at the track".
--
+--------------------------------------------+
/ James Pickering /
/ Email: jamesp@a... /
+--------------------------------------------+
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