DJB

I'm thinking about fitting a bleed valve to my MY98. Anybody know answers to these questions...

1. Whats the best reasonably priced boost gauge and where can I get it?

2. Where do to you get bleed valves ?

3. How much are they ?

4. Are bleed valves and UL compatible or will I always have to use SUL ?

5. Has anybody actually damaged or blown their engine using one of these (first-hand stories only please)?

Thanks.

D.

NITO

I use an HKS EVC4 Boost Controller which is essentially a very sophisticated bleed valve. The unit costs around £500 but it has many benefits over the crude bleed valve. First, it has a digital boost/vacuum gauge built into the display. You can adjust the boost easily from the cockpit. You can set user parameters, such as overboost protection, fuzzy logic scramble boost facility for extra boost for short periods, or a pre set hi/low boost setting. It also has an intelligent learning function where it gradually learns the optimum boost curve for the car. It will also allow you to reach your pre defined boost limit in every gear as opposed to a bleed valve which will only allow you to reach your boost limit in the higher gears.

As long as you don't run the car over 1.2bar (if it's a UK car anyway). I run mine at 1.15 to be safe. You don't need a remap as the standard ECU can self compensate for fuelling and ignition timing up to 1.2bar!

Bleed valve, or electronic boost controller, it's up to you. The bleed valve and gauge will probably cost you around £100. Apparently bleed valves start from around £20 and a gauge can vary from £30-£200+. If you have the money, then I would definately recommend an HKS EVC4 boost controller. It's also easier to fit and set up than a bleed valve, and easy to remove without any evidence that it was ever there. It fits perfectly in place of the ashtray and doubles as an illuminated boost gauge. On a recent rolling road trip to Power Engineering my MY98 UK wagon produced 286bhp running the boost controller at 1.15bar and an HKS full exhaust including downpipe and induction kit.

Hope this helps,
Nito

NITO

Hmmm Kris,

£20 for the bleed valve. How about all the other costs. A boost gauge, say £80. A boost gauge pod £45. That's £145 even before you count in the pots of Swarfega to wash your hands everytime you have to get under the bonnet to adjust the thing!

Besides, I was debating your comment "its a nightmare to fit and not particularly easy to put back to standard when you sell the car" and not the cost. Not only is it easier to fit than a boost gauge and bleed valve but it is also better in many ways. I run my car at 17.64psi without any problems and it holds this in all the gears up until higher revs where it drops of ever so slightly. On the rolling road the Torque curve was completely flat from 3,500 revs through till 5,000 as a result of the boost controllers ability to self learn the optimum boost curve.

I'm not knocking the bleed valves, as far as value for money in performance per pound goes they are great, but they can be fiddly to get right and they are not as versatile as the boost controllers which have come a long way since the now dated and crude bleed valves.

All I'm saying, is that for the extra £300 it will cost you over a bleed valve/boost gauge IMHO it is well worth the extra. I don't think £500 is that much to pay for the benefits it offers- especially when you consider the performance gives virtually the same benefits as a remap which not only cost more but are potentially more dangerous as the fuelling is leaned out, but also with the boost controller the car can easily be reverted to standard at a later date, and you still have something which you can sell on at the end of the day- probably for around £300, the difference between buying it and the bleed valve/boost gauge in the first place!!

I rest my case.

Nito

KRIS

Well you love to spend your money dont you.

Boost gauge £25
Pod £45 ( expensive one but a fiver will get you one )
Bleed valve £20

That makes £90. No swarfega needed.

I`m still wondering why I should spend another £410 for some wizzo gadget that does no better.

K

NITO

<<forget all that expensive stuff above , its a nightmare to fit and not particularly easy to put back to standard when you sell the car>>

I beg to differ. A nightmare to fit. It's three hoses and a live/earth wire to the control unit which is easily taken from the cigarette lighter! One hose from the manifold, which as you say already has a nipple. One hose from the actuator. And one hose from the turbo itself. You don't have to cut any existing hoses or anything. And to remove it is just a case of replacing the original T-piece that goes to the actuator and turbo!

It's miles easier than crawling under the bonnet to keep readjusting a bleed valve to get it right, and then once you've got it right you then have to readjust it everytime the temperature changes!! Plus, if you do breach the 1.2limit your car will overboost badly and cut out. With the boost controller they will slowly bring back the boost, but due to their accurate running will never enter into an overboost situation in the first place, unless you have a problem of some sort, I had a split hose the one time it happened to me!

It also saves extra fiddling with a boost gauge, which incidently would also have to be wired up to the illumination so it lights up at night and possibly an earth/live if it's a fancy one with warning lights. The boost controller doesn't require a seperate illumination feed because it is constantly backlit. Now you tell me which is easier to fit??

Nito

KRIS

£500 OR £20 ......Hmmmmm I wonder !

K

KRIS

forget all that expensive stuff above , its a nightmare to fit and not particularly easy to put back to standard when you sell the car

I too have a UK `98 fitted with a bleed valve.

1. Boost gauges come in all shapes and sizes. Depends how much you want to spend. Bare in mind that if you want a dash mounted pod ( fits flush against the `A` pillar) then they are £45 from Power Engineering. They are a piece of **** to fit and your car already has a nipple to attatch it straight to on the manifold

2 + 3.Get them from motor accessories dealers. I paid £20 for mine and its a lovely silver alloy job

4.Its a long and boring story thats been talked about until eternity BUT always use SUL regardless.

5.No damage whatsoever as the ECU sees the boost you run. You are not bypassing any of the safety features and hence if your car doesnt like it ; say for example you fill up with ****e petrol and overboost or start to `pink` your car will cut the boost accordingly.
If you decide to fit a bleed valve then you need to fit a boost gauge so you can see what boost you are running. Mine is set at 15 psi. It will alllow it to peak over 15 but then it drops back to 15 psi and holds this until nearly at the red line on the rev counter.I dont think your car will allow any more than that but you will have to test it then adjust it and then test it again. Believe me when you get it wrong and the boost cut comes in you will know about it as its like someone turning the engine off !!!

This is far too much waffle, if you need anymore then e mail me off line

K (happy with the BHP increase on the cheap!)


[This message has been edited by KRIS (edited 24-05-2000).]

NITO

Kris,

"Well you love to spend your money dont you.
Boost gauge £25
Pod £45 ( expensive one but a fiver will get you one )
Bleed valve £20
That makes £90."

Now tell me the truth Kris, How much did you spend on a gauge and pod? Boost gauge £25 and pod a fiver!! The smart looks alone justify a £410 price hike. I'd hate to think what sort of boost gauge you'd get for £25 and more importantly I would seriously question its accuracy!

"I`m still wondering why I should spend another £410 for some wizzo gadget that does no better."- Well that's the whole point, it does do the job better along with a whole host of extra features which a bleed valve can't do! For starters a bleed valve won't reach its maximum boost capability in the first three gears. An electronic boost controller can because it is an electronic valve controller and uses intelligent monitoring to ensure that this boost is always reached!

Plus you won't have the danger of an overboost situation cutting your power unexpectedly in the middle of an overtaking maneouvre!

Be careful, or by the end of this debate you'll be removing your bleed valve and asking me where you can obtain such a trick gadget!!LOL

Nito

RichieC

Lets not have this deteriorate into a slanging match eh? If you read the original post, it specifically asks for info on a bleed valve...not an EBC. As we all know a bleed valve is arguably a cheap and maybe crude method of increasing boost, however it does it for £20 as aopposed to the EBC for a great deal more. As far as Im aware, it sits right on top of the engine and is easy and CLEAN to adjust, hence no need for swarfega!

Anyway in answer to your question DJB, I am in the process of going that route on my MY93 WRX. My advice would be, as long as you stay sensible, i.e dont wind the boost up to silly levels, you should be fine, just understand you need to be carfeful!

Happy Boosting !
Richie

DJB

Thanks for all your helpful replies.

I can appreciate both points of view and the way my finances are right now, the cheaper option has alot of appeal.

I would however like to be able to adjust boost easily without having to open the bonnet and adjust the bleed valve. Supposing I was unable to get SUL rather than risk damaging the engine with UL (or suffer engine cut-outs), I could turn down boost to standard levels with ease. I think that if I can afford the HKS 'whizzo gadget', it would probable be a worthwhile investment.

D.

KRIS

HA HA HA....Mines bigger than yours !!!!!


Anyone want to come down the pub cause I`ve got £410 beer tokens to spend !!!



K

RichieC

I reckon what we need here is a variety of cars UK and Import with some comments by owners on the fit and gains to be had by going down the Bleed Valve route.

Has anyone done this on an MY93 WRX??

R

Wreckleford

If you want a cheaper EBC, get the Greddy Profec B. It doesn't have a boost gauge and you have to turn ***** to set the boost (hi and lo settings) to where you want it while watching your boost gauge, but once you set it you can forget it.

I got mine for $300 U.S., which is what, maybe 180 pounds sterling.