Blow Dog

Any have any idea what might be causing this? Or is it normal? 40k miles 97P topped with clean oil.

Happens only when engine is cold but it subsides in a few minutes. The car is driven immaculately, never reved from cold and always suitable cool down from running.

Argh! help!

Cem

AlexM

Blowdog,

On a UK97 or 98 car, it could be piston slap, especially due to cold ambient temperatures at the moment. Apparently, there are some duff pistons which made their way into MY97/98 cars which wear prematurely.

This has been discussed before, and at least one short engine replacement has been carried out under warranty.

Search for piston slap to find these threads....

Rgds,

Alex

P.S. mine does this too a bit.

Bob Rawle

Could also be a sticky/worn hydraulic tappet. This will "sound" until it "pumps" up.

Bob

Akira

My MY97 makes a tappety noise on cold start-up. As you say Cem, it subsides in a few minutes.

I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

Chris

Stef

My dealer reckons it's the normal noise of the hydraulic tappets.
Mine does it at about 1,000 revs when the engines warm too.

Stef.

Blow Dog

Thanks for the advice on the search for piston slap. I found out pretty much what i needed to know. Seems a lot of people have got brand new engines(!?!?!!?) from Subaru under their waranty because of this, but it doesnt seem like it is anything worth worrying about.
Cem

Danny Fisher

But BlowDog, your 3 year warranty is almost up by now. Better get it checked, maybe you will get that nice new engine.

Dan

Howie

My STi3 has similar a noise on cold startup, which fades out as the engine warms up. The other noise is what I can only describe as a flapping noise noticable at 1000-1200 rpm this noise does n't go as the engine warms.

Any how it's 30k service is due so I'll get some Mobil1 Motorsport run thru' perhaps I'll try some ZX1 in there too. The noises have become more noticable overtime, so may be fresh oil will do the necessary.

As to your MY rattle I'd get Subaru to deal with it especially as it's under warranty, 3 weeks must be worth it for a new short engine.

Blow Dog

Am i silly in saying i cant be bothered to wait 3 weeks for a new engine replacement? How would that affect resale. Would it o for or against me?

Would you get it replaced?
cem

sunilp

Cem,

I need to come round and slap you.

Why not get it checked under warranty..if its something that might be shagged..you'll hopefully get it replaced..how can you lose out?

MorayMackenzie

Howie,

Could your flapping noise be an exhaust heatshield rattle?

If not, maybe your blow-off-valve is leaking. I had a leaky one on my STI III, so I replaced it with a standard MY98 part and it cured the problem.

Moray

Blow Dog

When are you coming round anyway Sunilp?
Or you scared?
cem

Jon Brown

I've got a May97, 5door 33kmiles Scoobie, always allowed to warm up and cool down, etc. I've owned the car from new. For a while(20k-ish) my scoobie's been making a ticking noise on start up from cold, the car was always hot during servicing so the dealer couldn't comment other than "that's just a characteristic of the type of car". Anyway my warranty is up in May2000, so I decided to make an effort to get it checked, which I did last week. The comment from Subaru is that a new spec short motor is required, as it was making the ticking noise when hot? I don't know if this short motor is a good or a bad thing? Initially I imagined a pallet with a short motor vacuum packed sitting on it, but now I'm told they're going to strip the engine down and rebuild, with new block, pistons, etc?
As for the cause of the noise, it's still a mistery. Piston slap, so is the piston worn or is the bore, or the gudgeon pin? And what causes this? "Lack of oil circulation to the piston" - what does that mean?
My dealer installs no confidence, as do most garages, so I guess we'll just need to wait and see? I wonder how many clips and brackets they're going to break? Will my car ever go again? Anybody got any stories on dealers building engines and what this short motor means?

Anil Ootam

I have a ticking noise coming from my my97 turbo while cold. Is this the same thing? Or is this the wastegate solenoid ticking? I thought it was a tappet like noise originally.

Anil.

firefox

Hi guys..

The engine produces many different ticking noises...

You shouldnt hear the wastegate solenoid ticking at idle.... what you might be hearing are the injectors...

UK cars and early STI's had hydraulic lifters, which once primed, should be quite. As as Bob has stated, they can become "sticky" and not slide... at which point they start to become tappety... Sometimes an oil change can solve this problem. Hot oil might also reduce the noise (hence noise goes when the engine is warm)

STI's have solid lifters, which in general are noisey...and it doesnt normally depend if the engine is warm or not.

If it is piston slap, then its a design fault... someone has screwed up with the conrod piston design...

A "short engine" is just a complete engine without the gearbox, etc...

If you have slap... then you will need new blocks.. pistons... so chances are they will fit a new engine. I would make sure they do.

Cheers,

J.

CharlesW

My WRX sounds a bit 'tappety' when cold. This disappears after driving less than a mile. I am not at all concerned about it, as the car does not use any oil.

I used to run a Norton Commando many years ago. Now this did display some piston slap. Compression ratio was 10:1. It only occurred under load. It never occurred at tickover.

I am sure this problem, if it is a problem is a consequence of having hydraulic lifters.

johnfelstead

sorry j, your wrong on that one mate.

a short engine is everything below the cylinder heads, ie. block, rods, pistons, crank etc. The original heads are utilised to rebuild the engine.

Piston slap is caused by excesive piston/bore clearance, i believe the 97/98 engines used a short skirt piston which provided less axial support and led to excesive wear on the piston sides and bores.

My sport has just started to produce the piston slap thud when very cold after only 8000 miles, it will need a new short motor fitting to sort this. I am going to register my problem this week.

the reason it disapears when hot is due to the piston expanding to close the clearance between piston/bore.

The only time piston slap is normal is when you are running forged pistons in a comp engine as the clearances cold are larger than cast pistons due to higher expansion when hot.

Piston slap is not acceptable on a standard scooby engine.

johnfelstead

Just spoken to my local dealer about the piston slap problem.

They were very helpfull and open about the problem, quite a shock after years of dealing with ford and vauxhall service centres.

They are going to keep the car overnight next week and give me a courtesy car, then in the morning they will run it up on a ramp and check each cylinder for noise from under the car.

They used to have to get an engineer from IM to check this out before any work was carried out, but aparantly it is such a common problem with MY97/98 cars they are just letting the local dealers diagnose it.

They told me that on the sport they need to check the piston code for the defective cylinders, which is stamped on the outside of the block, and replace the piston in that bore with a different spec. On the turbo they would put a new short engine in.

I'm not sure how i feel about that yet as i would expect the bore to have worn excesively due to the piston slap, new pistons will not fix the already worn cylinder bore.

I will speek in more detail with the dealer about that once they have had a chance to give me their diagnosis of the problem.

incedentaly the piston slap noise is a low frequency thud, it almost sounds like a knackered camshaft on a ford pinto engine, for all you ex cortina/sierra drivers.

Ill let you know what happens next.

cheers john

Dave Bullock

Are there any reported problems for MY99 cars because mine very 'Ticky' when first started and occasionally on tick over.

Blow Dog

John, same with me. Mine is going into Cheam motors, although i must say they were a bit reluctant to admit the widespread problem.
Who are your local dealers?
Cem

johnfelstead

Monks Heath Motors
Chelford Road
Nether Alderley Macclesfield
SK10 4SZ
Tel: 01625 861544
Fax: 01625 860080
info@monks-heath.co.uk

Howie

Moray,

The flapping noise sounds more mechanical than, a loose or rattly heat sheild, as I am a relatively new scooby driver (7mnths) any advice or pointers are most welcome, how can I troubleshoot the rattle, if it might be the heat sheild or blow off valve?

btw. I've got the 30k service this coming weekend prior to the Oulton Park Track day on the 19th.

I've just completed a service on my girlfriends GTi cabrio, it's always been a bit tappetty on cold start, so I thought I'd run some ZX1 thru this time. Now it's oh so quiet - almost like new!

cheers
Howie

millband

Engine rebuild? Oh my god, I hope not! Although I do have a bit of warranty left...

I'm another new owner, just bought a 30,000 mile MY97 estate in December. Well pleased with it, but I've noticed that at low revs under load (inching forward in traffic etc), or when cold, theres a knocking/tapping noise. It comes from the drivers side of the engine.

Sounds like what you've described, BUT, it does not seem to change speed with revs, just goes away.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Stephen

AlexM

Stephen,

That is the boost control solenoid, which is mounted on the RHS inner wing. Makes a clicking noise at just above idle revs, so this isn't anything to worry about.

Rgds,

Alex

P.S. My MY98 has just been in for a service, and I asked them to check for piston slap - luckily it got a clean bill of health.

P.P.S. they have changed to filling with Castrol Magnatec rather than Shell Helix, and the tappets do seem a bit quieter.

[This message has been edited by AlexM (edited 07-02-2000).]

Dave Bullock

Stephen wrote
<< I'm another new owner, just bought a 30,000 mile MY97 estate in December >>

ESTATE !!!!

ESTATE !!!!

Nooooooooooo it's a 5 DOOR

Sorry Stephen my pet hat is people calling my pride and joy a bloody estate.
Estates are for Volvo drivers!!!!!


[This message has been edited by Dave Bullock (edited 07-02-2000).]

Bob Rawle

Here here (MY96 Sti 2 WAGON) !!

johnfelstead

Hey Dave.

My pet hat is a rally team baseball cap named muddy. ha ha

johnfelstead

car going in tonight for testing in the morning.

I will let you know the results of there tests tommorow evening.

cheers
john

johnfelstead

i had to re-schedule so is being checked on saturday morning now.

I will keep you informed.

cheers
john

millband

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Dave wrote:
<B>Sorry Stephen my pet hat is people calling my pride and joy a bloody estate[/quote]

Sorry I upset your hat! But... it has room for all my gear, it's farmer green, it's covered in mud, it has roofbars and a canoe on top... sounds like the "E" word to me!

PS Alex - thanks for the info