DAZ

could any one give me any suggestion on how to increase to power and torque of my car
(wrx sti vspec ltd v5 type r coupe)what a name :-)

1 would i see much difference with a k&n induction kit

2 exhaust system

3 ecu mods

4 which is the best ecu mod to go for

5 is there any way of having a dual setting
of the ecu so you can control when you require full performance and standard driving

6 what type of performance in bhp and torque
are you likely to see by doing these mods

thank for all the answers
all the best daz

Ian Cook

Not speaking from experience, as i dont own an STi 5.

1) Yes but not without 2)

2) Yes see above

3) The only ECU mod available for the 5 that i know of, is the Link from Possum Bourne, i dont know if Motech have one of theirs for it yet. (there may be probs with the link sti5 module?????)

4) Hmmm, tricky this one, see above

5) Dont know if the Link of Motech;s can do this ? but there are people on the list that know a lot more about this than me.

6)Check the Dyno page that Paul Strong has setup, he has listed more or less any mod you can imagine and the figures form various dyno runs at Power Engineering in Uxbridge.

steve McCulloch

K&n bugger all
Exhaust bugger all

If you have an STI5 like me these components are pretty much brand new so dont change them yet!

As far as the ecu is concerned you CANNOT do anything with it. The tuners bypass this normally, or mess with the boost settings

You need a system that bypasses the ECU.

Dont do this yet enjoy the performance then modify after winter, not much point in more performance in the wet with the car understeering all over the place.

As far as a 'dual' setting goes dont know what your on about, but you can get a boost controller (Blitz) with adjustable boost to increase economy when you want it on low boost and normal setting

I'm currently waiting for STI imports development:
Cossie pistons and liners, uprated conrods, everything uprated, antidetonation rings, etc,etc - costing Dave Morgan about £5k - buT he expects torque to be 360 and BHP about the same - not bad. They blew up there demo at 331bhp, trying to see the max power they could get from it!

Dont know were your based - Well lane are good in West Yorkshire (I used to own an Escort Cossie with adjustable power between 220bhp and 380 bhp!)

Or Interpro - Bristol - dont know about Power Engineering in Middlessex, but I suspect like everything down South they are expensive.

Incidentally a power run at Well lane costs £25, a power run at Interpro costs £75+vat! - dont know Powers , but probably a rip off as well!

Steve

firefox

Steve,

You can get Cosworth pistons now.... what are anti-detonation rings ?

I personally would have expect more power. I'm not sure what the weaknesses are in the STI V engine... I know they are the conrods and conrod bolts in a IV. What cams are you fitting ?

If you are changing pistons and liners, I assume you are boring out ? 2.2 L stroker kit ? different crank ?

What turbo are you running ? will be running ? what ECU will you fit ?

Cheers,

J. email me privately if you wish - jay@c-t-l.co.uk )

Craig H

You don't tend to get big gains from the exhaust/filter etc - which you really need when you have 280-odd bhp, otherwise you don't notice.
What is noticeable is the pickup. And it's pretty pointless going furthur without doing these first.

steve McCulloch

Firefox

Whoaa there!!!

Its not me thats doing the mods, its Interpro, or rather STI Imports that also based at Interpro.

Dave Morgan did comment that the anti det rings (as he called them) were to stop the problems occuring of using inferior fuel. It stops the explosions occuring in the chamber that knackers the pistons??

I dont know I aint a tech head

Yes I do believe that its a 2.2 litre conversion. The Cossie Pistons he said took about a couple of weeks on order. Mongoose is also doing a custom exhaust stainless steel kit. Dave also showed me something they junked out of the engine - something circular (gold palted) near the Turbo, (the thing that increases boost as you move it further away from the turbo (i dont know)

Dave said the 360/360 was conservative. The mods were endless. Speak to Dave Morgan at STI imports 01454 881 645. It should be on the road in the next few days - his car has been off the road now since end of July so the conversion should be a good one.

steve McCulloch

Firefox

Oh and Dave said the Conrods in the STI5 were made of Chocolate!

Craig H

And I bet they're not even Lindt quality!

Seraph

I own a STI Ver 5 Type R, 5 weeks old. Today, I got my downpipe (turbo back) changed for a HKS 3" to 2.5". I also changed the filter element to K&N oil based.

I am very happy with the performance increase! Acceleration is now smoother throughout the powerband, the car pulls much harder above 6500 rpm! Low end torque in the 2000-3500 band is also much improved.

So, I would first consider an exhaust/air filter upgrade first.

The reason I did not change the mid-pipe and rear muffler is because I like the STI blackbox and also, the standard engine really does not benefit much from a 3" straight according to me exhaust mechanic. He explained that doing so, will remove the back pressure which is very important for low end torque, but may be slightly restrictive in high revs.

In short, he said that keeping mid and back portion of exhaust in std STI has more adv than dis.

DAZ

cheers all for your replies.
i spoke to dave morgan this morning he told me he melted his demo.he said that with his mods you,ll get 330 bhp and 300 pounds torque
sounds interesting.have any of you got a possum link fitted? if so let me know what you think

firefox

Steve...sorry dude.... didnt mean to jump at you...was just curious...

Just a thought.... isnt it a bit worrying when a tuning company melts their own car ? and tells future customers about it ?

Engine tuning is straight forward.... its just the application of the individual components and ensuring they all run smoothly and reliably (for many years) thats difficult.

How long have Interpro been "playing" with Scoobs for ? Or are they another "oh people with scoobs have money...lets jump on the wagon too..." company ?

Just curious...

J.

ps - All opinions stated here are mine, and not that of the SIDC .

DAZ

firefox

you may have mis understud what i was staying dave from interpro melted his car on purpose during tests to find out what the maxium limit was on a version 5 this way they can set the operating envelope of the ecu with in safe working limits.
interpro have been doing rally spec cars for years they have a 4 wheel drive rolling road , test cell and alot of technical backup.
cheers all

Jonathan

Steve

Dont know where you get your facts from. We have done loads of runs with Impreza and the one mod that makes a difference is the Filter and Backbox combination. With a full system I gained 48lb ft at 2500. Not bad me thinks and 15bhp overall. Just look at Paul Strongs site.

Where did you get your info on no gains from K&N and Exhaust gains,

With regards to Interpro and STI Imports there has already been warnings about these RIP OFF merchants on here before. Not supprised they melted a piston or two. One members STI V Type R was put on the rollers bonnet up and one set of wheels moving. The STI demo car was also described as less than smooth. The heart attack kid also had poor experiences with them.


I think there are some good tuning outfits to spend your money at, but judging by other members experiences these are not the guys.

Stick to a good exhaust and Filter first inc a downpipe. See PE or Pete.

Jonathan

ex STI V and RB5 modded by southern rip off merchants

Bob Rawle

Steve, I totally agree with Jonathon, down pipe, back box and filter make a big difference to an Impreza of any type. IMHO Cossie pistons are not any better than STi ones, STi blueprint the engines and thats about as good as it gets. The gold "thing" is probably the wastegate actuator, its normal to uprate this part to get more boost but not necessary with the Impreza, my car will pull 1.6 plus bar (by accident I will say) quite well. Anti-det rings sound as though they could be anti-seize piston rings but I know of "ringing" as being a wire ring let into the cylinder block around the top of each bore to bite into the head gasket to stop it blowing on higher boosts. However afaik this just increases the explosive effect if it does det cos its got nowhere to go. If a piston wants to melt the piston will melt and rings of any sort won't stop it. The Link ecu should provide a very good upgrade path but at the moment I think is not quite right for the 5. I've emailed them with a couple of suggestions based on the experiences I've had with my car and hopefully may help. (I had problems with flat spots on part throttle using the latest software, they did me a hybrid program using an older boost control algorythm and it completely fixed it)

Bob

firefox

erm..erm....erm...

A tuning company that deliberately blows a car to find its maximum limits.... no offence..but thats bollocks....!!!

No company (decent company) would do that. There are proper ways of testing parts than screaming the engine to bits!!

As discussed (and this is my opinion) they are expensive and in-experienced with scoobs.

I have dealt with so-called companies that "know" how to tune cars (with my previous non-scoob cars), and after having ECU's blown, valves by-passed, etc... I have learnt to research into a company first.

Even if they deliberately blew the engine.. I still wouldnt touch a company that takes that approach to R&D work.

Anyways...

J.

DAZ

fair comment
im still trying to sort the bull**** out from facts.
its nice to know other peoples comments.
cheers

NeilR

Im with Jonathan on this one.

The STi V is obviously has a very nervous motor.

Stick with the exhaust/Filter route and consider either a water injection system or use an octane booster like Silkolene.

Id leave it that.

NeilR
(STi III - tuned by experts)

Dave Mitchell

I`ve used Interpro once before when I first got my Scoob. I had no problems but it was only a power run, when they got the car it was @220hp and they got it to 228.
I`ve since fitted a piper air filter/cone, and a HKS full exhaust inc. down pipe(Being fitted today).
I was going to go back to Interpro and get them to "setup" the car with these mods.
But judging from the Previous posts It would not be a good idea?

Where should I go?
I live 25mls south of Bristol.

steve McCulloch

Okay, Okay!!

I have taken on board everyone points and dont agree or disagree

I know STI have tuned lots of STI's and Dave also told me they do work for Autosportif as this co. does not have a rolling road (dont know if thats bollocks). I know Dave Morgan can certainly talk motors forever.
However Power Engineering are never that friendly when I ring them - ie they dont seem interested at all so they will never get my custom! They are full of **** - I rang back in March about mods on the sti5 they always say 'Daves off to Japan, etc and will know in a few weeks' - 6 months on same story.

I rang them to ask about a simple boost controller on the Subaru to reduce psi and increase fuel consumption on motorway drives
They said it could not be done. I rang Well Lane who I've dealt with over the yaers and they said ' no problem at all'


I will see and drive the new converted car to see what I think, try and get a detailed quote on what they've done and then get the work, done probably at Well Lane Turbo in Batley, as there labour rates are £30 per hour and not something stupid

I was charged £105 all in for my 1000 mile service at STI Imports- all they did was change the oil/oil filter and topped up the gearbox oil. Charged me a fixed rate of labour at £60 - for 30 mins work - what a rip off

I'm not at all interested in filter and exhaust - OK the gains speak for themselves. I've had several high performance cars and never really noticed any real difference driving after a filter and exhaust change.

Why bother on a new car - I think its ok on an old car were the exhaust is ready for changing - but why just junk the filter and exhaust on a nearly new car for a measly 15bhp gain - though 48lbs is impressive! - on whose rolling road?

firefox

Howdy...

This is a very grey area, when talking about tuning companies....

Personally I do all the work myself (I know most people havent got the facilities). I only tend to go to third-party companies for specialist services (4wd rolling road, gas flowing, etc).

Remember that the companies arent out there to make your car the best in the world, but to take your money. Each one will claim they are better, more experienced, or others are crap - thats how business is.

I stand by what I have said before, alot of these more "popular" companies havent worked on scoobs for very long - not many people have.

I'm not going to mention names, but a few companies are giving the impression they have been around for years working on scoobs, when infact they have been working on Fords. They have only been on scoobs for about a year or so. And some havent even stripped down engines yet.

Most are just selling on and fitting parts designed by other companies. Virtually any garage/tuning company can fit brakes or suspension, or air filters and exhausts.

The reason these companies are standing out is because they have RR's and its a big buzz with scoob owners to see what they can do (just like in the good old cosworth days).

I believe there are only a few RR's in england.... TDI, PE, Interpro, well lane, one near blackpool, and one or two others.

Everyone has their own opinion and thoughts about tuners. Speak to others and learn from their experience of turners and companies. This is the best way - you cant beat recommendations, just bear in mind every company makes mistakes and have "bad days" - hopefully not too many

Anyways.. I cant remember what I started talking about....

tara

J.

ps - I have found certain companies to be less-friendly than others, especially if you start asking for advice/products that aren't their best sellers or not on their usual list products. Perhaps this is because its more work for them, or there's a risk involved, or they just dont know. Who knows... Or perhaps its just the people/company themselves *shrugs*

[This message has been edited by firefox (edited 23-09-1999).]

Jonathan

Hi Steve

I think the reason a lot of people do the exhaust swap is for a combination of things.

First off the noise. The std STI box has no character. After hearing a Scoobysports or similar, most owner have to have one. My STI V went on the EVO mag photo shoot with the EVo VI and Gus the photographer said that the car made the best sound he had heard on drive past bar none. He'd been shooting the new Ferrari two days earlier.

Secondly the benefit of the backbox and filter is felt out on the road. The pick up is better and you gain approx 10bhp. You really notice it when you refit the std exhaust and notice the extra lag.

Combine this with a downpipe and Bobs your uncle. Yes my RB5 did pick up 48lb ft low down. Look at my cars figures on Paul Strongs link at the top of this thread. Yes it was Power Engineerings and Yes it was their Rolling Road. Both runs were carried out one hour apart. I sat in the car both times and watch the boost gauge. But the real test was on the road. Most people that were there would bear witness to my smile and three or four people had a drive. The pick up was transformed.

I've put backboxes on most cars Ive had. mainly for cosmetic reasons. None before have worked like they have on the Scoobie.


With reagards to boost control. PE fitted a GReddy system to my STI V. The version V with its new ECU doesnt seem to be at its happiest with this system. Maybe thats why they are staying clear. They do seem to be working as hard as they can to remap the 99/STI V. The number of people lined up for it makes it a real money spinner. The interceptor type of units from what I can see will not be as good as a remaped ECU.

Firefox

I would agree that most companies out there that are ex Ford and even VW tuners have only been working on Scoobies for the past year. In fact last October when I organised the first Rolling Road at PE they were just getting into Impreza's. They had I believe been doing some Skyline work. But since then they have done over 120 cars in our organised days alone. They must also see 10-15 cars a week as well. This is a new area of tuning in the UK and most owners and Ive met a few have nothing but good things to say about Pete "Scoobysports" Croney and PE. They do live today on recommendations. I do think all tuning companies get a lot of tyre kickers phoning up for advise when they will never buy anything. The good companies are always busy and will sometimes be hastled and underpressure. The ones that can talk forever you should worry about. However I think Pete has the phone taped to his ear as he fits brakes, downpipes, or does some panel beating

Jonathan

firefox

Jonathan,

I wasnt referring to Pete... I kinda know him from when he first started Scoobysport. He's a good guy

Has there been any news about the PE Phase 2 ?

Are more people going for the Link system ? Or some other ECU system ?

What I was trying to say, which I dont think came across very well, was the fact that companies seem to slag of other companies work. Eg... a part was fitted by company A, I then take the car to company B to have someother kit fitted.... Company B slags off the original part fitted by A, saying its crap, rubbish, wont work, and want to fit their kit to "improve" it. Its this instant dislike to company A's kit... even though it might be top notch.

I know this is how some companies operate...and this doesnt just apply to the automobile, but infact to business in general.

I need booze...

tara

J.

steve McCulloch

Jonathon/Firefox et al

I want decent power increases of say 100 bhp and 100 torque. I only see exhausts as complimetary to this. I'm looking at therefore seriously modding the car - and no-one seems to do it! who are the Subaru UK specialists (excluding Prodrive!)that I can get in touch with.
Money is not an issue - but after looking at all the various cars out there I reckoned the Subaru represented best value for money - I'm just a little disappointed cos the Turbo is so progressive throughout you dont feel as though your going fast (although of course you are).

At present when the e/r permits I may get a Skyline and spend wods on this - but the reviews I've seen dont look that good - should I bother?

Oh... I dont know what I want - I'm already bored with the Subaru, especially its understeering in the WET - my Cossie was never this bad - does Leda C transform it (bit pricy though) or what about getting 17 inch alloys and leaving suspension alone? - i dont intend taking it on a track more than say a couple of times for a bit of fun (incidentally - dont you end with loads of stone chips doing this! - just with normal driving the car already has a number of scratches - never known anything like it!)


How much did you pay to get the Exhaust/Filter and set up with power run

Did you manage to get anything for the older parts. My car has only done 3000 miles do you think anyone would be interested in an STi back box - how much should I sell it for?

My only concern, having had numerous exhausts, (Tube Torque, Scorpion - fantastic sound going through a tunnel accelerating, etc) is it not intrusive on the Motorway.

Thanks

Steve

DAZ

interesting reading

cheers

Craig H

Steve,
Changed std STi wheels/tyres for 17s with Toyos and had the geometry done.
Difference in the wet and dry is phenomenal. On tight 2nd gear bends theres just a nice amount of oversteer whereas before it just snapped out.
I've got a SS backbox - the sound is awesome, even better than the sound when on UK cars. Very sadly, the popping and banging on the overun is much more noticeable.
Next week goes on a Blitz induction kit and SS downpipe. I'll let you know if it's worth it. From others views I'm positive it will be.
Skyline is probably next for me.
I got the STi as a good base for a fast road/track car which was also practical - and end up getting probably the most unreliable STi version - which is looking increasingly unfixable.
If moneys no object why not get a 22B lump put in, then modified?

steve McCulloch

Probably cheaper to sell my car (I've recently been offered £3k more than I paid for it!) and buy the 22B - then modify suspension and gearing, etc, etc

Out of interest I used to know why the 22B was so called but cant remember now - its something simple

Craig H

2.2Boxer?!

GavinP

Craig,

I get my car serviced by Roger Clark Motorsport in Leicester who also prepare rally cars - have a conversation with them...

I have a Remus backbox fitted to my car which is quieter or at the most the same noise level as my car with the OE exhaust....maybe an option if you don't want additional noise!

I think it is fair to say that the STi 5 is probably close to the highest safe level of tune as standard - and for major power increases, probably not a good foundation (as things stand at the moment).

Thanks

Gavin