darkblueturbo

Right, one day I want to get a bigger turbo that the TD04 on MY00.

The VF23 seems a popular choice.
The VF28 is fitted to the STi5/6.

Any ideas of what the difference is between these, they seem to be pretty similar to me for the figures I've seen (i.e. compressor size etc) i.e. which is bigger / smaller, creates more lag... I want to be able to easily go over 300 horses (somewhere between 320 and 350 depending on other work i.e. fulem pump, injectors, IC, strengthend internals (it's a UK car) etc.) but with as little lag as possible.

Can anyone recommend other turbo's for the job.

darkblueturbo

out of interest - what turbo's do the P1's have fitted....??

And the STi7 and 8 out of interest. And the 22b?

LOL....!!

john banks

From flowing the highest to the lowest as follows:

STi2 TD05
STi3/22b VF23
STi4 VF24 (like VF28)
P1/STi5/6 VF28

STi 7/8 VF35 (spools up like VF28, flows like VF23)

All have 300+ potential unless the rollers or car is grumpy.

For your needs suggest a front entry TD05 (up to 369 BHP tuned very hard) or a TD06 conversion (up to 440 BHP). The standard VFs struggle to get near 350 BHP on believable rollers IMHO although some hybrids can get around 400 BHP. They spool up slowly for their power levels, are not rugged and not economically repairable.

[Edited by john banks - 8/8/2003 6:05:23 PM]

kevin stanton

Sorry to hijacking the thread,

John,
what sort of money do these turbos go for and what would you recommend for a:

MY99 UK Turbo, full decat, motec, samco's, uprated fuel pump, panel filter, VA dump valve.

ohh, and what else would you need to do to the car to accept a bigger turbo.

Thanks

Kevin

sg72

IMHO

You can fit a bigger Turbo TD05, ET Al.

But .... After @350bhp and you'll be looking at Race F/Pump, bigger injectors. Fuel regulator. Cooling issues ( W/I ,FMIC )
Air flow. Strengthened gearbox, remap,New ECU, Crankshaft, pistons, rods,Stroker kit, Bigger brakes, W.H.Y. .

Depends what you want the car for.

It all adds up.

bigsky

If your concerned w/ spool (like me) then the vf35 seems to be very likley candidate. You'll need to upgrade injectors/fuel pump and ic, but you'll have a car w/ 300+ ponies that will spool very near the TD04 and a wonderful flat torque curve that is exceeding 200 ft lbs by 3000 rpms. After much looking- TD04 hybrids, 28,29's- the 35 seems to be the clear choice for me.

If your not concerned w/ spool and low/midrange torque and want to make even more power there are a slug of turbos out there to choose from.

big sky

Trout

iTrader: (1)

In terms of bigger turbos, I fitted a new turbo to my car last weekend for Ten of the Best, in lieu of having my new engine installed.

It is based on a TD05 and has a Garrett wheel in it. The car, with only some basic mapping in it due to the late hour, cut 0.5s of its standard 1/4 time and improved its terminal by 10mph! Not a bad change.

Previously the car had been on the rollers and typically achieved 335-350bhp. And this produced times of around 13s dead.

Interestingly the new turbo spools up faster than the VF I was using and enabled me to improve my starts from 1.8s to 1.6s for the 60ft drag.

Overall the turbo runs much cooler - and so enables more advance - boost threshold is excellent. 1 bar at just over 3,000rpm and 1.4bar+ at 4,000rpm, in all gears from 2nd upwards. At TOTB I was using 1.4bar - now that I have a better restrictor size - I am running a little more

The main thing that pleased me was that it did not suffer from any surge - even with the high flow it was producing.

The rest of the engine remains standard and I am sure there is more to come just by fine tuning the installation. I am confident a very low 12s is possible from this turbo on a standard engine.

Last weekend the car ran with bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, uprated regulator and FMIC, but no water injection.

If it interests you then drop me a line at rannoch1@hotmail.com.

Rannoch

Andy.F

Nice one Rannoch

What kept you ? I've been telling you guys this about TD05 turbo's and their hybrids for over a year now !

Interesting to see how the 1/4 mile terminals compare when you wind it up to 1.4/1.5 bar

Andy

Oops, just noticed you were running 1.4 bar+



[Edited by Andy.F - 8/10/2003 11:05:53 AM]

harbering1

I have a my98 with a hybride td05 (md320)
what is the max boost of this turbo.
i have know 1.4 bar at 7k.
the td05 md320 is a vf23 vf30 killer and a gearbox killer (second gearbox)

rapac

VF22 1 of the biggest on the VF family???good for top end?
TD05,yes,yes
Then maybe AVO 400hp,450hp,500hp (Garret ball bearing and direct bolt on with internal westgate)

PS.AVO 400 or 450 it is my soon to come choice???

Cheers

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Andy,

and forget to mention - I am sure that the standard headers and standard up-pipe are holding back the top-end...

...will fit them for Scooby Shoot-out if I don't have time to install new engine and we may find out

Rannoch

john banks

David, sounds good What boost is it happy running at 7000-8000 RPM? What flow is the compressor rated for?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Call me technical...well I can just about manage the Zymol

John,

haven't got the compressor map here - will see if I can dig it out. It will happily run 1.6bar up to the red line Not so sure I am so happy with that on the standard engine tho!

Andy,

I agree - as I say not done enough tweaking yet to fine the thing - but there is certainly more to come. There is no doubt the compressor is very efficient tho, although I don't have inlet air temp on my car - the level of advance I can run indicates (although is not absolute) that the charge temps are much lower at the same time as needing so much more fuel

My build has been put back (thank you John!) but should be ready for the dyno on September 15th - if it is and I can get the time to set the car up then I will not be running this config. If it is not ready then I will spend more time setting this up to see what is possible.

Rannoch

Trout

iTrader: (1)

...oops - no Steven was running his little VF hybrid running 1.3bar!

He does have headers, etc, and was running water injection.

Not a bad performance I have to say!

Rannoch

carlos_hiraoka

not bad at all for a MD304 .....

Carlos H.

john banks

I hope I am not causing much delay David, mine is a quick bolt up I believe - the whole thing was stripped in an evening and is going back together exactly the same. The compressor you are running sounds good.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

No worries JOhn - I just wish Scooby shoot out was a couple of weeks later!

Rannoch

PS Hi there Carlos

john banks

I don't know Andy, anyone in the mid 12s on a standard engine with a full weight late classic is to be commended IMHO... It is difficult to get power out of these engines. You seem to sail over 400 BHP compared to the rest of us.

carlos_hiraoka

Hi there Trout

Time to fit a decent exhaust manifold and uppipe, and go for some xtra power

Carlos H.

AlanG

Hmmm... wonder how i would have done now, if i'd done Elvington?

alan

carlos_hiraoka

Alan did u also get your HP results with lowish boost (that is between 1.4 - 1.5 bar) with an aftermarket exhaust manifold ?????

Carlos H.

Andy.F

I'd be most surprised if Stevens UK wagon is lighter than a JDM Sti ?? even with air con. Doesn't your car have alloy TCA's etc David ?

You can't read too much into the ET. That is more technique (read gearbox sympathy) dependant. The terminal velocity at the 1/4mile is far more representative of the power output. My car has gradually gone from 115mph to 127 mph over the last 14 months whilst remaining the same weight.
Losing 100kg typically gains 2mph on a 118mph run.

Andy

carlos_hiraoka

Andy, my car with the xtra weight off seems to be easier to take out of the line .....

Carlos H.

R19KET

It's a bit scarey that a 90bhp gain in power, was only worth .2 seconds ?

Mark.

carlos_hiraoka

..... Andy and the aprox weight of your car is ?????

Carlos H.

Andy.F

Oh, I think it's more than +90 bhp now Going by the 1/4m terminal and top speed run Dog box should see 10's easy

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think official kerb weight of my car is...

...1275kgs...

...substantially not much different to a UK car - the only lighter bits are the bonnet and the TCAs, however I do have full air-con which Steven does not. So that will be 15-20kgs fully loaded. I also had (unintentionally) a near full tank of fuel

Anyway - we can debate what result it SHOULD have got - it got the result it did on the day and that is all that counts. It was good enough to come second of the 22b team which is not bad considering that on Friday the car wasn't running and neither was I

Rannoch

R19KET

Andy,

Yes, it must be down to the gear box, or maybe your clutch was slipping..... A

All the drag calculators I can find, reckon you should be doing circa 10.7 sec' with 127mph terminals, and 2800lbs, I'm guessing is about right for your car ? I'd also agree that you no longer have circa 440bhp flywheel, it must be closer to 450bhp ATW's.

I reckon you'll be doing EASY 10.7's when you get the box sorted.

Mark.

Andy.F

Most of the drag calculators are designed around auto gearbox cars. They do not work well calculating ET's for manual cars due to the time spent 'off the gas' gearshifting.
The terminals however tend to be closer

Are you getting this yet

R19KET

Andy,

Get what ????

I agree you would need more power for 127mph terminal, as do the calculators you say are quite accurate for the terminals. They say you'd need circa 450bhp ATW's, and I'm agreeing that you must have more than the 440bhp flywheel you last got at Star.

Comparatively, the 11.7 is low for a 127mph terminal, but you stated changing to a dog box will take you below 10's. I said with 127mph terminals, that should be easy, but to be honest, I think sub 10's is a little optomistic with your current level of tune, even with a dog box. Why not fit an auto instead, that would seem to make it much easier.

Have I missed something ?

Mark.