Headers
06 March 2003, 09:26 AM
#2
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The Gruppe's keep a nice burble below 2000 rpm as they are still unequal length 
after 2k rpm it turns into a superbike style 'wail' 
Also much less drone at cruise RPM.
Jan, I also noticed a general reduction in knocklink activity Rest assured it still works though 
Andy
[Edited by Andy.F - 6/3/2003 9:28:10 AM]
after 2k rpm it turns into a superbike style 'wail' Also much less drone at cruise RPM.Jan, I also noticed a general reduction in knocklink activity
Rest assured it still works though Andy
[Edited by Andy.F - 6/3/2003 9:28:10 AM]
01 June 2003, 09:42 PM
#3
Drag it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flame grilled Wagon anyone?
Posts: 9,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, i know these have been discussed for a while now.
I knows there is 4-2-1 and then 4-1, and IIRC the 4-2-1 tend to benefit lower down, whilst the 4-1 benefit up at the top end of the rev range.
Out of the 4-1 selection, and 4-2-1 in fact, there are both equal length and unegual length headers.
My question is, what difference do equal and unequal 4-1 make to the car, in terms of everything you can think of, including sound.
I am currently going to go with Gruppe-S headers, but also looking at something else.
From memory the Gruppe s are unequal in length, whilst the others i am looking at are equal.
So whats the difference, in english please
Cheers
Steven
I knows there is 4-2-1 and then 4-1, and IIRC the 4-2-1 tend to benefit lower down, whilst the 4-1 benefit up at the top end of the rev range.
Out of the 4-1 selection, and 4-2-1 in fact, there are both equal length and unegual length headers.
My question is, what difference do equal and unequal 4-1 make to the car, in terms of everything you can think of, including sound.
I am currently going to go with Gruppe-S headers, but also looking at something else.
From memory the Gruppe s are unequal in length, whilst the others i am looking at are equal.
So whats the difference, in english please
Cheers
Steven
01 June 2003, 11:19 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I have the Gruppe-S ones on order. Have seen impressive results from Andy F's car with no apparent loss in spool up he ran the same power at 0.25 bar lower than previously 
On a TD04 car they did not seem to kill the bottom end (once mapped) and it went rather well for not very much boost either.
On a TD04 car they did not seem to kill the bottom end (once mapped) and it went rather well for not very much boost either.
02 June 2003, 12:55 AM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John
I don't really understand the ins and outs of headers but how do the Gruppe-S headers differ to the ones you had before which you didn't like and ended up taking off and selling?
Were they equal length, 4-1, 4-2-1 or what?
Alan
I don't really understand the ins and outs of headers but how do the Gruppe-S headers differ to the ones you had before which you didn't like and ended up taking off and selling?
Were they equal length, 4-1, 4-2-1 or what?
Alan
02 June 2003, 09:13 AM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
They were 4-2-1 and equal length, and did not match the MD304 very well. Don't know how they would have been with bigger turbos? They worked well with TD04 hybrid.
I suspect Andy had such good results because he freed up a bottleneck?
I suspect Andy had such good results because he freed up a bottleneck?
Trending Topics
02 June 2003, 11:55 AM
#9
John
Can you explain when you say "equal length" (No smart comments required),is the bore the same between the 2 banks of headers ?
If you look at both pictures the lengths appear different.
Do you lose the scooby grumble with this type of hearder and what disadvantage is in the unequal length 4-2-1 headers ?
BW Mark
Can you explain when you say "equal length" (No smart comments required),is the bore the same between the 2 banks of headers ?
If you look at both pictures the lengths appear different.
Do you lose the scooby grumble with this type of hearder and what disadvantage is in the unequal length 4-2-1 headers ?
BW Mark
02 June 2003, 12:43 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
$595 plus about £40 duty.
On the ones I had the bores were the same but there were extra curves to make the length as equal as possible. The Scooby sounds was gone. The Gruppe-S ones retain a good bit of it.
On the ones I had the bores were the same but there were extra curves to make the length as equal as possible. The Scooby sounds was gone. The Gruppe-S ones retain a good bit of it.
02 June 2003, 05:23 PM
#13
Hmm Regarding the ECU knock correction...I'm still a bit puzzled.
My K.L is now very quite vs. before but it's on max sense.
but I have seen one knock count on the link...so I guess it do pick up some of..it...
Did some logging Yesterday..and no knock with 1.38bar of boost
on the TD05 with the Gruppe-s and stock IC @5200 rpm I only seen 11 on the knock witch I have set for 50@ 3000rpm with the link.
ADV btw was 13 deg and A/F was 0.87V
I must check the last log I did, cause I did think I saw the K.L light up.....
Earlier engine noise would create something up to 10-20 ..but no I only 1have 1 up to 5000rpm..and light on the K.L could light up two green lights maybe even a orange...now nothing...so far
My K.L is now very quite vs. before but it's on max sense.
but I have seen one knock count on the link...so I guess it do pick up some of..it...
Did some logging Yesterday..and no knock with 1.38bar of boost
on the TD05 with the Gruppe-s and stock IC @5200 rpm I only seen 11 on the knock witch I have set for 50@ 3000rpm with the link.
ADV btw was 13 deg and A/F was 0.87V
I must check the last log I did, cause I did think I saw the K.L light up.....
Earlier engine noise would create something up to 10-20 ..but no I only 1have 1 up to 5000rpm..and light on the K.L could light up two green lights maybe even a orange...now nothing...so far
03 June 2003, 08:29 AM
#15
Drag it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flame grilled Wagon anyone?
Posts: 9,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I now have a set of headers to try, foc, as someone wants them testing. I dont know the make, or cost, as i have not been told.
They are equal length, but different in design, i will take some pictures when i have a moment.
Steven
They are equal length, but different in design, i will take some pictures when i have a moment.
Steven
03 June 2003, 09:06 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Power station do equal length headers for around £480 + VAT.
The guy there garenttees at least 25 Ib Ft of torque after fitment. But you loose the Vee Dub camper burble as he put it.
The guy there garenttees at least 25 Ib Ft of torque after fitment. But you loose the Vee Dub camper burble as he put it.
03 June 2003, 11:05 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Steven, will they fit an 02 car? I'm about to get up and d/pipe decat, fuel pump and a trip to see a certain someone on this thread
Was leaving headers til I get the turbo / injectors etc. for my 2nd stage, but would be interested to see the difference.
LMK?
Was leaving headers til I get the turbo / injectors etc. for my 2nd stage, but would be interested to see the difference.
LMK?
03 June 2003, 11:14 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with Andy on how the car has changed in the areas he has highlighted, but apparantly when my car went on to Star's rollers it didn't sound any different from a normal scoob at the back of the car.
They reckoned if anything, the car was louder!!
Odd.
Alan
They reckoned if anything, the car was louder!!
Odd.
Alan
03 June 2003, 11:30 AM
#19
Drag it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flame grilled Wagon anyone?
Posts: 9,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eddcase, i believe the ones i am testing also are available for the 01>, and i also believe that the gruppe s ones fit the 01>.
I dont want to lose the noise though
I dont want to lose the noise though
03 June 2003, 11:34 AM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok mate, if you want em sticking on mine and testing on a 02 car, I would need em for July 18th fitting!
I happen to know that TSL have also found a very good supplier in the far East, that manufacture a certain well known, highly respected brands headers. They are basically the same but half the price.
I happen to know that TSL have also found a very good supplier in the far East, that manufacture a certain well known, highly respected brands headers. They are basically the same but half the price.
03 June 2003, 11:45 AM
#21
T-uk I haven't had time to map the headers yet, because taking it easy on my new gearbox, but I had a a MD304 with standard ported headers, and diffrent up-pipe running 1.35 in peek dropping it to 1.25 with a MRT Tmic.
Now with the TD05 and headers no change in the map, 1.2bar
and with stock IC&y-pipe I have lower A/F values than before,
Spool is so far 1bar@3100rpm(4-th gear), feels much more torque than before and power is there from 3000rpm in 4th gear from 3500 is takes away really hard
fells like more power earlier to 2-2500rpm
I do have some boost creep arround 5000rpm..but I think it will be no problem with fmic and when gearbox is run in.
Andy sound good
/Jan
Now with the TD05 and headers no change in the map, 1.2bar
and with stock IC&y-pipe I have lower A/F values than before,
Spool is so far 1bar@3100rpm(4-th gear), feels much more torque than before and power is there from 3000rpm in 4th gear from 3500 is takes away really hard
fells like more power earlier to 2-2500rpm
I do have some boost creep arround 5000rpm..but I think it will be no problem with fmic and when gearbox is run in.
Andy sound good
/Jan
03 June 2003, 01:23 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I right in thinking that all aftermarket headers include the uppipe?
If so, seems silly me spending £130 on an uppipe next month, when for another £300ish I can get headers too and then not have a useless spare uppipe in a few months when I was planning to get headers?
If so, seems silly me spending £130 on an uppipe next month, when for another £300ish I can get headers too and then not have a useless spare uppipe in a few months when I was planning to get headers?
03 June 2003, 09:53 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Edcase
Just rememder that you neeed too get wrap for the headers when you get them, with the Gruppe s one's you will also need 2 header gasket's and the 2 blanking plug's.
Cheers Dougie
Just rememder that you neeed too get wrap for the headers when you get them, with the Gruppe s one's you will also need 2 header gasket's and the 2 blanking plug's.
Cheers Dougie
04 June 2003, 12:47 AM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi mate, if P20SPD aint gonna let me test his () I'm gonna get the TSL ones I reckon, and will lag them along with the downpipe.
I'm literally counting the days now I've got it all booked in!!!
) I'm gonna get the TSL ones I reckon, and will lag them along with the downpipe.I'm literally counting the days now I've got it all booked in!!!
