Power FC
20 May 2003, 12:52 PM
#1
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Has anyone had a power FC fitted to a uk car and what sort of results have they had? I have just spent nearly £2000 on this upgrade and only achieved 260 BHP!! Just had the car on the rolling road and was well dissapointed! Car has a nasty flat spot too!
Gutted
Mark
[Edited by Vigs - 5/27/2003 7:48:53 AM]
Gutted
Mark
[Edited by Vigs - 5/27/2003 7:48:53 AM]
20 May 2003, 01:32 PM
#2
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Any ecu is to a degree only as good as the person mapping it.
You could have the most capable and function rich ecu in the world, but if a newbie mapped it you may as well have just installed pedals and a chain.
Results also depend on your cars ability to breath nice cold air, apply fuel and get rid of gasses etc and the general state of your engine.
You could have the most capable and function rich ecu in the world, but if a newbie mapped it you may as well have just installed pedals and a chain.
Results also depend on your cars ability to breath nice cold air, apply fuel and get rid of gasses etc and the general state of your engine.
20 May 2003, 01:37 PM
#3
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I pretty much know its down to the mapping but dont want to name and shame yet! The rolling road graph shows the drop off in power at 5000rpm due to retarding the ignition too much(im told)!
Do you know anyone else who has good results with this ECU?
Do you know anyone else who has good results with this ECU?
20 May 2003, 01:38 PM
#4
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Righty then......i run a PowerFc on a Jap WRX 95,
first off, why the hell did it cost 2K...thats a totaly stupid price even if it included mapping and an AVCR....
Its has been mapped aint it,.....your not using the basic map??
what boost is it running?
The PowerFc will totaly eliminat flat spots if given the right tools for the job...uprated fuel pump, and pressure reg, so that when its askes for more fuel you can supply it, also a good map would help matters, My wrx has no flat spots at all...not a one...so it looks like you should go back to your tuners and ask them to sort it.....
dont expect huge BHP gains...remember its a UK turbo so 270+ is a fair old jump from standard.....
hope this helps
jay
first off, why the hell did it cost 2K...thats a totaly stupid price even if it included mapping and an AVCR....
Its has been mapped aint it,.....your not using the basic map??
what boost is it running?
The PowerFc will totaly eliminat flat spots if given the right tools for the job...uprated fuel pump, and pressure reg, so that when its askes for more fuel you can supply it, also a good map would help matters, My wrx has no flat spots at all...not a one...so it looks like you should go back to your tuners and ask them to sort it.....
dont expect huge BHP gains...remember its a UK turbo so 270+ is a fair old jump from standard.....
hope this helps
jay
20 May 2003, 01:44 PM
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The total cost was over £1700 with fitting and mapping. I have a full decat with a Apexi super flow air filter.They also fitted HKS iridium plugs. im not saying it is not any better but when some one tells you its about 285bhp and its not you get a bit upset.(especially with the cost) The tuners response is " I cant see what your problem is"!!!
20 May 2003, 01:44 PM
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who mapped it......they might have had an off day.....id pop back and have a quiet word....im sure they would not want a bad public reputation.......
Clive and the boys at RC Developments did mine.....cant fault it....nice power gain, great boost curve and it never drops....pull right to the red line.
I agree totaly with the other posts.....the mapp is the problem, but make sure you have the other toys to go with it, as they work hand in hand....filter, full system ( de cat ), pump......not sure what mine runs, but its a hell of a lot quicker than it was....and not to mention better on fuel, which shocked the hell out of me...bonus....thoses japs are clever guys....lol
where do you live, if your close i would be happy to pop round and give you a demo......if it helps
all the best
jay
Clive and the boys at RC Developments did mine.....cant fault it....nice power gain, great boost curve and it never drops....pull right to the red line.
I agree totaly with the other posts.....the mapp is the problem, but make sure you have the other toys to go with it, as they work hand in hand....filter, full system ( de cat ), pump......not sure what mine runs, but its a hell of a lot quicker than it was....and not to mention better on fuel, which shocked the hell out of me...bonus....thoses japs are clever guys....lol
where do you live, if your close i would be happy to pop round and give you a demo......if it helps
all the best
jay
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20 May 2003, 02:28 PM
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Just a few more points worth mentioning.
Anyone quoting power return figures for anything has to be taken as a pure ball park figure for several reasons -
1. the rolling road may not be correctly calibrated, ive seen cars stripped of 15bhp from a saturday to a monday session for no reason other than attending different rolling roads.
2. state of the car being worked on, if the car in question responds well to tuning based on age/condition of engine etc.
3. atmospheric conditions on the day - hot weather kills runs, also a vey hot car will not perform as well as a cooler one.
whilst im not defending your mapper (i dont know who it is) im just saying its not an exact science.
Anyone quoting power return figures for anything has to be taken as a pure ball park figure for several reasons -
1. the rolling road may not be correctly calibrated, ive seen cars stripped of 15bhp from a saturday to a monday session for no reason other than attending different rolling roads.
2. state of the car being worked on, if the car in question responds well to tuning based on age/condition of engine etc.
3. atmospheric conditions on the day - hot weather kills runs, also a vey hot car will not perform as well as a cooler one.
whilst im not defending your mapper (i dont know who it is) im just saying its not an exact science.
20 May 2003, 02:45 PM
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The rolling road run was done at 8.30 this morning and it was very cold! I know there can be problems with rolling roads but this is 25 bhp out from what they quoted me! This does seem a bit much! The rolling road which is not the tuner i used said the timing is retarded too much at 5000 rpm hence only 260 bhp!
20 May 2003, 02:49 PM
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Demand satisfaction or your money back.
What model is it, what is controlling your boost and what boost is it running?
On some rollers - eg Powerstation or Star, 260 BHP would not be a bad result for a TD04 car.
[Edited by john banks - 5/20/2003 2:51:15 PM]
What model is it, what is controlling your boost and what boost is it running?
On some rollers - eg Powerstation or Star, 260 BHP would not be a bad result for a TD04 car.
[Edited by john banks - 5/20/2003 2:51:15 PM]
20 May 2003, 03:41 PM
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£2000 for a power FC is way to much....I can get a power FC,Nismo fuel pump,6 550cc Sard injectors,fully fitted and mapped at G-force for £2000 with a promise of about 550bhp on my skyline....
The power fc comes with a few base maps for each model so it is likely they have just used that.They do need to be mapped by someone who knows them well.Have you got the hand controller or did they use a laptop???They are supposed to be as good as say a motec ecu for all the things that can be changed....260bhp is pretty crap for £2000......
The power fc comes with a few base maps for each model so it is likely they have just used that.They do need to be mapped by someone who knows them well.Have you got the hand controller or did they use a laptop???They are supposed to be as good as say a motec ecu for all the things that can be changed....260bhp is pretty crap for £2000......
20 May 2003, 03:47 PM
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Just spoke to tuner in question who explained he gave it a lrger safty margin than other tuners would give so i would have more reliabilty. They are not willing to change the map to get any more out of it! They are willing to sort out the 2500 rpm idle that i get for 5 mins from cold but they are just too far away to make it worth going back to get it sorted out!
What more can i say.
What more can i say.
20 May 2003, 03:58 PM
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Cold starts is always an interesting point from my experiences, link in the past has had problems there as well.
It doesnt help that by the time the cars driven to the mapper its already warm so testing cold starting can be a bit problematical.
If the mapper in question is unwilling to push your car much further there must be a reason that has made them come to that decision, personally i would be more interested to hear what that was as it could lead to further problems in the future if it was due to excessive knock or engine noise for example.
It doesnt help that by the time the cars driven to the mapper its already warm so testing cold starting can be a bit problematical.
If the mapper in question is unwilling to push your car much further there must be a reason that has made them come to that decision, personally i would be more interested to hear what that was as it could lead to further problems in the future if it was due to excessive knock or engine noise for example.
20 May 2003, 04:37 PM
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£2000 to get just 260 bhp....What increase is that on standard..Not alot I would imagine.Sounds like a rip off to me,take it to someone and get it mapped properly,the idea of mapping is that it makes it safer to run more power as the fuel and the timing is changed to be perfect all through the revs.....
20 May 2003, 06:21 PM
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Maybe its just me, but 1.25 bar of boost sounds a little excessive for 260bhp ? Maybe something not 100% with the breathing ? Otherwise, if you have that much cash lying around, add a VF35 and head to over 300bhp...
20 May 2003, 07:09 PM
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Did you dyno the car beforehand to know what it was doing before any work was done?
The only reason i ask is my supposed 280bhp sti when ran in my lunch hour in the middle of august (bad move) with an exhaust and induction got 265bhp on tuning Japanese rollers, so as a result i would recommend most peeps check what there starting figure is.
Off the top of my head without checking factory power on yours should have been @ 208bhp, what other mods are you running?
The only reason i ask is my supposed 280bhp sti when ran in my lunch hour in the middle of august (bad move) with an exhaust and induction got 265bhp on tuning Japanese rollers, so as a result i would recommend most peeps check what there starting figure is.
Off the top of my head without checking factory power on yours should have been @ 208bhp, what other mods are you running?
20 May 2003, 07:16 PM
#23
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My engine should be 211bhp as standard but most should come out a little more than this. No i did not dyno before the mods. I have a full decat and Apexi super flow induction kit. also they fitted HKS iridium spark plugs but i dont think they make any difference except to the price!!!
PTholt. Is yours a white STI 5??
PTholt. Is yours a white STI 5??
20 May 2003, 10:02 PM
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I got 262BHP without a Power Fc on a UK Turbo (TD04).
With the Power FC AND FMIC i got 297BHP(TD04), then added a VF24 mapped, then estimated power to be approx 320BHP. Sadly my engine blew up at some at fast speed, I have been told it could be down to mapping at the top end, if is isn't right it would be detting it's nuts off, I don't have a knocklink fitted either, (must get one). My car also developed an erratic idle and a light knocking when cold, and this was all a month or so before it said goodbye. anyway it blew up and that is that.
I waited over 2 months last summer to get my Power FC and when I got it I was amazed
but now I am not convinced,
I am not saying the mapper/s are good or bad, but to map YOUR at say 150mph don't they have to drive it at that speed? Something seems a little strange to me.
With the Power FC AND FMIC i got 297BHP(TD04), then added a VF24 mapped, then estimated power to be approx 320BHP. Sadly my engine blew up at some at fast speed, I have been told it could be down to mapping at the top end, if is isn't right it would be detting it's nuts off, I don't have a knocklink fitted either, (must get one). My car also developed an erratic idle and a light knocking when cold, and this was all a month or so before it said goodbye. anyway it blew up and that is that.
I waited over 2 months last summer to get my Power FC and when I got it I was amazed
but now I am not convinced, I am not saying the mapper/s are good or bad, but to map YOUR at say 150mph don't they have to drive it at that speed? Something seems a little strange to me.
21 May 2003, 08:41 AM
#26
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Alanjack..Which tuner mapped yours? Looking at your location it could have been the same company that has done mine? Is your uk car a MY 98? If it is a 97 or 98 the knocking when cold is piston slap which alot of the late phase 1 engines have! Mine has this too but i was told by Subaru and other tuners to ignore it because its not a problem! The tuner that mapped mine did notice this and has used this as one explanation for it only producing 260bhp!
The power fc has a knock display on it by flashing the managment light when detecting detonation.Did yours not do this?
Think im at the stage of putting the old ECU back because it seems that many tuners in this country just dont have the know how to map these things!!
Its been a very expensive exercise to end up with the same i started with!
The power fc has a knock display on it by flashing the managment light when detecting detonation.Did yours not do this?
Think im at the stage of putting the old ECU back because it seems that many tuners in this country just dont have the know how to map these things!!
Its been a very expensive exercise to end up with the same i started with!
21 May 2003, 09:45 AM
#27
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Hate to play devils advocate but for a TD04 to have 260+ lb/ft from 3000 to ~5000rpm isn't bad at all. It seems to me that it says 1.25 bar max (probably a peak where the torque peak is @ 3000rpm) but probably is 1.2 bar held to, as merv suggested the crossover point.
If you want to see your 280ish hp then it seems you will have to get it remapped to hold 1.2 to, say 6500 then let it taper sharpish! If the company are'nt prepared to do this for safety reasons then you may have to go elsewhere.
However for the money you spent I'd be pretty pissed if the outcome wasn't what you expected, or what they quoted. They should sort it IMO.
If you want to see your 280ish hp then it seems you will have to get it remapped to hold 1.2 to, say 6500 then let it taper sharpish! If the company are'nt prepared to do this for safety reasons then you may have to go elsewhere.
However for the money you spent I'd be pretty pissed if the outcome wasn't what you expected, or what they quoted. They should sort it IMO.
21 May 2003, 10:23 AM
#28
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Think ive got to get a re-map because it has major probs with cold start and its not that great in traffic with a bit of a delay on pick so its not nice to drive a resonable speeds. Rc developements the tuner said they would sort out the cold start problem but im in London and they are in Manchester so its cheaper for me to pay some one else to sort it out!
The only other option is to go back to the Subaru ECU at least its been mapped by people that know the car inside out!
The only other option is to go back to the Subaru ECU at least its been mapped by people that know the car inside out!
21 May 2003, 01:03 PM
#29
I had a feeling that you'd say it was RC. The only experience i've had of these guys is a while ago an EVO or two tuned by them went on a rolling road (said to be very optimistic with power figures) and they fell well short of there claims (using Apexi AVC-r and AFC-S). Also if Alan's engine failed because of det i'd be very suspect about them touching my car. Then again i have heard that they have looked after a 400bhp monster of a scooby????
Personally even with the td04 i would have expected a lot more tho.... maybe about 280 bhp being sensible considering you still have the td04. With just a full decat, induction and say a dawes you wouldn't be far shy of 260bhp (and the dawes costs £50).
Tony.
[Edited by Tone Loc - 5/21/2003 1:04:07 PM]
Personally even with the td04 i would have expected a lot more tho.... maybe about 280 bhp being sensible considering you still have the td04. With just a full decat, induction and say a dawes you wouldn't be far shy of 260bhp (and the dawes costs £50).
Tony.
[Edited by Tone Loc - 5/21/2003 1:04:07 PM]
