What can I do next for more power?
18 February 2003, 06:58 PM
#1
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Spec of car so far
1)STi7 JDM with std VF30 turbo
2)2.5" Scoobysport exhaust inc up pipe
3)Uprated fuel pump
4)Upgraded spark plugs
5)Ecutek.Only running 1.25bar boost at present due to a presumed actuator problem.To be sorted soon to 1.35ish in the mid.
6)K&N panel filter
7)KL,oil/boost and EGT gauges.AFR waiting to be fitted.
Was originally going to go fmic and bigger turbo,but investigation reveals this will cost about £3500-£4000 once all fitted.D'ont think I can really justify this at present as moving house etc.
Are there any other mods I can do at present that will give any decent benefit.I know it won't be big increases without fmic/turbo.
I'm thinking maybe porting headers/uprated inlet pipe/induction kit/WI.Not all but some of.What do ya think?
1)STi7 JDM with std VF30 turbo
2)2.5" Scoobysport exhaust inc up pipe
3)Uprated fuel pump
4)Upgraded spark plugs
5)Ecutek.Only running 1.25bar boost at present due to a presumed actuator problem.To be sorted soon to 1.35ish in the mid.
6)K&N panel filter
7)KL,oil/boost and EGT gauges.AFR waiting to be fitted.
Was originally going to go fmic and bigger turbo,but investigation reveals this will cost about £3500-£4000 once all fitted.D'ont think I can really justify this at present as moving house etc.
Are there any other mods I can do at present that will give any decent benefit.I know it won't be big increases without fmic/turbo.
I'm thinking maybe porting headers/uprated inlet pipe/induction kit/WI.Not all but some of.What do ya think?
18 February 2003, 07:19 PM
#3
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Piddling about with water injection & stuff is just throwing money away that could be being saved up for a front mount 
Or a nice new turbo, come to think of it.
I think I'd go turbo then FMIC as the TMIC might be OK with a cooler intake charge from a different turbo
Or a nice new turbo, come to think of it.
I think I'd go turbo then FMIC as the TMIC might be OK with a cooler intake charge from a different turbo
18 February 2003, 07:21 PM
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Certainly the breathing mods will all help a bit, WI would allow more ignition timing and a bit leaner. Why will a turbo and FMIC cost so much? For example a TD05/06 hybrid which is still being perfected should come in at about £750, if you went for a Garrett hybrid it would be the wrong side of £1000 probably, thought there were a few FMICs under £1000 these days, not sure about the STi 7 though. I would expect to pay about a full day for labour to fit both. A water setup is about £350. Induction pipes are about £200, various induction kits £100-200. Porting headers - about 2-3 hours to remove port and refit at most? If you did everything them maybe the figures you are talking, but you should be over 400 BHP if you did.
18 February 2003, 08:11 PM
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Sheeesh Deep you are not happy with over 330 bhp 
where does it all end man !!
Seeing that I am one step behind you (have the full scoobysport zorst, hopefully EcuTek within next few weeks) I was planning to stop after remmap. I honestly thought that 330 bhp (250 - 265 whp) would be good enough for me, but I guess the 'itch' keeps surfacing.
Your modded JDM STI-7 must be one of the fastest cars out there as compared to unmodded road cars.....surely a standard 911 n/a would be toast up until 130 mph or so....you should also be under 13 secs quarter mile by now...
well, I am done, after the remmap and a nice 250 - 265 whp and trq I will call it quits.......I hope
Good luck,
Ray
where does it all end man !! Seeing that I am one step behind you (have the full scoobysport zorst, hopefully EcuTek within next few weeks) I was planning to stop after remmap. I honestly thought that 330 bhp (250 - 265 whp) would be good enough for me, but I guess the 'itch' keeps surfacing.
Your modded JDM STI-7 must be one of the fastest cars out there as compared to unmodded road cars.....surely a standard 911 n/a would be toast up until 130 mph or so....you should also be under 13 secs quarter mile by now...
well, I am done, after the remmap and a nice 250 - 265 whp and trq I will call it quits.......I hope
Good luck,
Ray
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18 February 2003, 08:45 PM
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Nom,I think it needs to be fmic then turbo to really benefit or so the consensus seems.
JB,the APS fmic is £1250 but then there is the cold air feed and DV that you need to buy with it.Total cost is £1600.I'll have to pay about £400-£500 to have it fitted.Turbos I've been quoted on are about £1400+ vat.So thats £3500 ish before any unforseen costs.
JB any idea when the TD05/06 will be ready?
Carlos,who makes that inlet pipe.
Ray,car drives really nice but this game is so addictive! Then I have b8stards like Jonno(LOL!!!!) who ring me up and tell me how fast their STi7 is!!!
Jonno,stop it mate otherwise I'll tell your missus how much you're spending on the car!
So do people think that spending money on things like WI/inlet pipe/ported headers is a waste of time for me at this stage and I should just save the money towards a fmic?
JB,the APS fmic is £1250 but then there is the cold air feed and DV that you need to buy with it.Total cost is £1600.I'll have to pay about £400-£500 to have it fitted.Turbos I've been quoted on are about £1400+ vat.So thats £3500 ish before any unforseen costs.
JB any idea when the TD05/06 will be ready?
Carlos,who makes that inlet pipe.
Ray,car drives really nice but this game is so addictive! Then I have b8stards like Jonno(LOL!!!!) who ring me up and tell me how fast their STi7 is!!!
Jonno,stop it mate otherwise I'll tell your missus how much you're spending on the car!
So do people think that spending money on things like WI/inlet pipe/ported headers is a waste of time for me at this stage and I should just save the money towards a fmic?
18 February 2003, 08:56 PM
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AVO / MRT intake pipe
on the AVO website:
http://210.15.220.239/flash/subaru/wrx_bop_parts.html
go to LARGE INTAKE PIPE
on the AVO website:
http://210.15.220.239/flash/subaru/wrx_bop_parts.html
go to LARGE INTAKE PIPE
18 February 2003, 09:14 PM
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Work is progressing on the TD05/06 20G and making it user friendly on a 2.0 litre as we speak. Until it has matured to that point consider it only a POSSIBLE option.
That intercooler setup sounds expensive (maybe it is just the STi 7 since there are two Scoobyshop vendors selling the old one for under a grand), surely there will be more competition for the STis soon and more options, but it is only in the last year or so that FMICs on the earlier cars have become more affordable it seems, with a few kits now under the £1000 mark.
[Edited by john banks - 2/18/2003 9:19:35 PM]
That intercooler setup sounds expensive (maybe it is just the STi 7 since there are two Scoobyshop vendors selling the old one for under a grand), surely there will be more competition for the STis soon and more options, but it is only in the last year or so that FMICs on the earlier cars have become more affordable it seems, with a few kits now under the £1000 mark.
[Edited by john banks - 2/18/2003 9:19:35 PM]
18 February 2003, 09:18 PM
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How about keeping your eye out for a nice second hand FMIC - they seem to pop up suprisingly often. Shaves something off the cost, anyway.
The APS FMIC, by the way, has a converter included for the oem BOV (not sure, but does John still use the standard BOV?).
'General concensus' may be FMIC then turbo, but there's no real reasoning behind it if you ask me - a larger turbo should be more efficient, therefore create cooler intake charges, and therefore have less need for intercooling, ie the intercooler can be less efficient with a more efficient turbo for the same charge temp, only the larger turbo can also provide higher boost. Stick an FMIC on a small turbo & the intercooler may well be cooling the charge nicely, but the turbo's working so inefficiently at the required boost that the cooling isn't actually getting you anywhere (as all the turbo's doing with the 'extra boost' is heating the air).
Also to remember 1 bar on a large turbo is a totally different thing to 1 bar on a small turbo - yes, that's charge density and so also intercooler related, but it's better to get it right in the first place (efficient turbo) than botch it later with an efficient intercooler.
Obviously, want you really want is both...
Depends how far you want to push the turbo, I suppose!
The APS FMIC, by the way, has a converter included for the oem BOV (not sure, but does John still use the standard BOV?).
'General concensus' may be FMIC then turbo, but there's no real reasoning behind it if you ask me - a larger turbo should be more efficient, therefore create cooler intake charges, and therefore have less need for intercooling, ie the intercooler can be less efficient with a more efficient turbo for the same charge temp, only the larger turbo can also provide higher boost. Stick an FMIC on a small turbo & the intercooler may well be cooling the charge nicely, but the turbo's working so inefficiently at the required boost that the cooling isn't actually getting you anywhere (as all the turbo's doing with the 'extra boost' is heating the air).
Also to remember 1 bar on a large turbo is a totally different thing to 1 bar on a small turbo - yes, that's charge density and so also intercooler related, but it's better to get it right in the first place (efficient turbo) than botch it later with an efficient intercooler.
Obviously, want you really want is both...
Depends how far you want to push the turbo, I suppose!
18 February 2003, 09:23 PM
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Something else springs to mind about the 'breathing' - changing from a 2.5" exhaust to a 3" makes quite a difference. Or rather, it can do, given the rest of the kaboodle needs it. I think there was a 330bhp being waved about earlier, in which case it may make a difference... I have graphs somewhere which shows the difference. I'll find them & stick'em up. They're quite intersting, I thought, in a dull engineery sort of way
18 February 2003, 09:26 PM
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A bigger turbo does produce a denser charge, but also less exhaust gas back pressure so better flow. But to get more torque in particular you still have to run decent boost (the VF30 is probably reasonably efficient in the midrange already). Power gains are a bit easier as smaller turbos run out of puff and get inefficient on both the compressor and exhaust side at high revs if you kick them too hard. But in running more boost you will lose some charge temperature from increased efficiency, but probably lose more by running the higher boost.
I found this when I fitted a series of bigger turbos to my car with TMICs, I got silly heatsoak at 1.4 bar whatever turbo I used almost (I didn't go massive agreed). Only after the FMIC could I run 1.4 bar without a lot of vicious cycles going on and the timing was a pain in the butt. You would get it nice, and then get the car really hot and it would detonate.
With a FMIC you can run much more midrange boost without things getting so hot, the timing can be more consistent. I can run about 1.7 bar at lower charge temps than I used to get running 1.3 bar on a TMIC with a smaller turbo.
With water you can get more timing, but it does not replace a good intercooler.
Everything you do should be thermal and detonation management to make your engine run more power safely. Compromise and you will dramatically shorten the life of your engine. Do it properly and you will probably be surprised how far a standard engine may take you.
I found this when I fitted a series of bigger turbos to my car with TMICs, I got silly heatsoak at 1.4 bar whatever turbo I used almost (I didn't go massive agreed). Only after the FMIC could I run 1.4 bar without a lot of vicious cycles going on and the timing was a pain in the butt. You would get it nice, and then get the car really hot and it would detonate.
With a FMIC you can run much more midrange boost without things getting so hot, the timing can be more consistent. I can run about 1.7 bar at lower charge temps than I used to get running 1.3 bar on a TMIC with a smaller turbo.
With water you can get more timing, but it does not replace a good intercooler.
Everything you do should be thermal and detonation management to make your engine run more power safely. Compromise and you will dramatically shorten the life of your engine. Do it properly and you will probably be surprised how far a standard engine may take you.
18 February 2003, 09:56 PM
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Carlos,checked the site but no price.Any idea what it costs?
Interesting though I found something called a 'Solid Boost Response Device'.Somehow stops the wastegate bleeding so much.(http://210.15.220.239/html/my02sti/project_sti_base_html).Any idea what this might be.This might be the cure to my boost problems
Interesting though I found something called a 'Solid Boost Response Device'.Somehow stops the wastegate bleeding so much.(http://210.15.220.239/html/my02sti/project_sti_base_html).Any idea what this might be.This might be the cure to my boost problems
18 February 2003, 10:03 PM
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Looks like the same MRT/Scoobymania/GGR/AVO/Mac's Power pipe that everyone is selling? This is the one I have, seems to work well enough considering the route it has to take.
18 February 2003, 10:08 PM
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http://210.15.220.239/html/my02sti/p..._sti_base.html sounds basically like a Dawes. With the ECU remapped it gets rid of this creep anyway. You are more likely to have a wastegate issue if your car won't hold the boost with the map, I was surprised how hard I had to work the duty cycles on the UK STi to get the boost up, especially at the top end after what everyone said about them being boost creeping monsters.
18 February 2003, 10:28 PM
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Looks like the same MRT/Scoobymania/GGR/AVO/Mac's Power pipe that everyone is selling? This is the one I have, seems to work well enough considering the route it has to take.
18 February 2003, 10:34 PM
#25
Hi Deep,
You are looking in the wrong place if an APS FMIC is going to cost £1250 plus fitting. Talk to Chris at G-Force Motorsport and ask nicely for the Scoobyshop discount - you should be on the right side of £1K for the D/R 500 Kit inc VAT but excl fitting.
regards,
callum
You are looking in the wrong place if an APS FMIC is going to cost £1250 plus fitting. Talk to Chris at G-Force Motorsport and ask nicely for the Scoobyshop discount - you should be on the right side of £1K for the D/R 500 Kit inc VAT but excl fitting.
regards,
callum
18 February 2003, 10:40 PM
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John, mine is a MY98 STi ver 4 RA, no A/C, no stereo, no undercoating, probably a little lighter than yours ( < 1200 ) ..... 
..... but I just posted about this inlet hose, since it would have saved me the hassle of getting parts to make my own inlet pipe.
..... but I just posted about this inlet hose, since it would have saved me the hassle of getting parts to make my own inlet pipe.
18 February 2003, 10:45 PM
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I noticed that the replacement inlet pipe allowed faster spool-up (noticeable), but not really much on the power-front - until pretty big numbers?
Not totally sure - just my observations - is yours on yet John? And was the oem one causing a restriction at 300WHP or not? (Just interested, having one of the MRT ones already just thought this was more of an improvement to driveability rather than actual power?)
Not totally sure - just my observations - is yours on yet John? And was the oem one causing a restriction at 300WHP or not? (Just interested, having one of the MRT ones already
just thought this was more of an improvement to driveability rather than actual power?)
18 February 2003, 10:46 PM
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Carlos, oh well, you win So the bugeyes pipe fits the classics with relocated PS is what you are saying?
Nom, at the time the inlet pipe was fitted, also fitted new gearbox and uppipe, and then tuned it to within an inch of its life on a TD05 so rather a lot was happening at once. I did not want to push the TD05 to 1.5 bar at the top without this inlet pipe. I did seem to gain about 2 degrees timing from the inlet and uppipe combo, 1 more from a Blitz Nurspec backbox (yes it was that good in comparison to a Magnex but deafens me)
[Edited by john banks - 2/18/2003 10:50:48 PM]
So the bugeyes pipe fits the classics with relocated PS is what you are saying?Nom, at the time the inlet pipe was fitted, also fitted new gearbox and uppipe, and then tuned it to within an inch of its life on a TD05 so rather a lot was happening at once. I did not want to push the TD05 to 1.5 bar at the top without this inlet pipe. I did seem to gain about 2 degrees timing from the inlet and uppipe combo, 1 more from a Blitz Nurspec backbox (yes it was that good in comparison to a Magnex but deafens me)
[Edited by john banks - 2/18/2003 10:50:48 PM]