RICH WILD

Yesterday at Well Lane we all saw something staggering.

Apart from Andy F's amazing 432bhp which deserves a hell of a lot of respect.

Lee Howarth hit 366bhp in a MY00 UK car.

Now that's impressive, but even more impressive is his list of mods:

Blitz SUS
MRT Induction Pipe
VF24 Turbo
full Jap Innovations decat exhaust
HKS FCD
HKS AFR
HKS EVC5

That's it!

Is this a record?

SecretAgentMan

Umm...366 hp from a VF24?
That does sound a tad weird.

/J

rosswalker

Out of interest, what boost preasure were you running at the time? I c u have adjusable boost. Does it have forged pistons, or any other uprated internals? Fair play to you!!

Gridlock Mikey

Nice,

I attribute it totally to the Jap Innovation exhaust!

Mikey Guess what i've got

SecretAgentMan

With that amount oh HP from a VF24...one can't avoid thinking if the rollers aren't a tad optimistic?



And if the owner didn't have a can of NAWS hidden somewhere.



/J

john banks

For a VF24 that is optimistic in the extreme IMHO. VF24 does not flow enough air to do that many horses unless the horses are small.

dowser

I saw a fairly stock my00 with a water injection system running a 50% fuel mix do some big numbers - don't know how reliable such an approach is....but Andy probably does

Richard

RICH WILD

We were all amazed too. It wasn't what we were expecting.

The VF24 was added for low end grunt as that's what the guy wanted.

But the torque builds to virtually 300 lbsft @ 4000 rpm and just sits there right to the redline. Torque @ 6500rpm is about 295lbsft. There's no drop off at all, hence the high power.

The boost controller was set to 1.4 bar. All Internals are stock as is the intercooler and ECU!!

Cheers
Rich

john banks

The internals or the ECU are not the surprise or doubt however you look at it, the turbo is.

RICH WILD

What could cause such a strange result John?

They say VF24s are only good for 17psi

Any ideas?

Cheers

Rich

Pavlo

I do wonder how they calculate the RPM at well lane, given that the cars all run different gearing, yet the RR has no direct RPM measurement on the car.

Maybe the VF24 isn't an ordinary VF24, who know, but I'm very surprised to see a turbo that flows less than a TD05, making more power than a TD05 but at less boost.

Paul

SecretAgentMan

So what it comes down to is:

A, It isn't a regular VF24.
B, The rollers doesn't produce reliable numbers.

I'm leaning towards the latter myself.

/J

Pavlo

Yet David wallis produced only 3hp different from the last session with similar levels of held boost, they were 3 months apart!

Harvey got 377hp from a vf28 which is a similar turbo, again seemingly impossible, definitely very rare.

paul

RICH WILD

J,

Why do you presume it's the rollers? You must have some evidence for presuming this, otherwise it is little more than an opinion.

It seems strange that several other cars were almost bang on what you would expect. Why should the rollers give a vastly inflated figure for just one car?

Christian's car was well DOWN on what was expected, so optimistic rollers can pretty much be ruled out.

A standard Audi TT 225 got 223bhp last week and a standard Rav4 (147 bhp) got 144. Not bad really.

Cheers

Rich

Andy.F

Harveys 377 on a VF28 was at Star performance, it made 360 ish at Well Lane IIRC. The headers and open intake really free off a turbo. My TD05 made 345bhp on a 90 degree intake and over 370bhp on a 75mm direct feed.

ps I agree the rollers are reading high there's no way Bob Rawle really has 407 bhp and Christian with 360 ?

I think we may soon see J Banks with a chart topping UK figure and that's before he borrows my turbo

SecretAgentMan

Lads, calm down - as we still don't know the complete truth behind this specific car, we're down to speculation.

And I think, IF it's a regular stock VF24 that either something went wrong at the time, or that the rollers are overreading.



All it takes is a look at how much the 24 will flow.

/J

David_Wallis

andy, I dont know whether I can post christians other figures..

but he has some that are higher that were obtained on saturday...

Still not what I was expecting..

Could be down to the mapping

David

RICH WILD

I can't see that pic that John has posted.

Rich

carlos_hiraoka

what is the CFM rating of a VF24 ?

SecretAgentMan

http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16gsmall-cfm.gif

And here's a map of the td05-16g (small wheel - straight inlet I assume as it's from a mitsu based page).

/J

Andy.F

The point I was making is that WL rollers have a very quick run up time, probably similar to 3rd gear. The bigger the turbo, generally the slower the response. (This can be seen from an AP22 graph, bhp increases in each gear) IMO the boost tends to be higher in each gear 1 - 5
If you put a big turbo car on slower run up rollers, such as Power Engineering, you will get a bigger number.
There starts to be a law of diminishing returns though, too long a run can start to heat things up too much.

Well Lane is punishing to big turbo cars and 'possibly' slightly over estimates a small turbo cars potential. You can map a small turbo car for an excellent 3rd gear performance but it may have a problem on this setting overboosting/det in 5th gear.

IIRC Bob remapped his boost to suit WL4 run time but even then was hitting overboost at 2.1 bar on 3 out of his 4 runs.

Andy

carlos_hiraoka

there is a 100cfm difference, between the VF24 and the TD05 .... which only indicates that the result for a stock VF is a little optimistic

carlos_hiraoka

BTW the modifications list doesn't seem to include fueling mods, other than a HKS AFR controller ..... so I guess that this result was on the stock 440cc injectors, at what duty ( > 100% ) ?????
Something just doesn't add up, unless he was running close to a 13:1 AFR

EMS

That´s a good one Carlos!

I am running my MY99 with 95 - 100 % DC from 6.000 RPM and I get "only" 255 Wheel BHP measured in 3rd gear. (11.0 - 11.5 AFR) This should equal about 320 - 330 BHP at the flywheel.

P.S. The car has a VF23 and a PE manifold. (and some other small things )

Mark.

Bob Rawle

As Andy says I hit boost cut in three of four runs, that knocked my top end timing down by 8 degrees, so when I did adjust the boost response it was "a dog", still slipping though. No time to set it back again.

You need to load the rollers to suit the car, using the same setting for all is not right for the big power cars or vice versa depending on what has been set.

carlos_hiraoka

Bob, do you think that 366bhp is possible with a 2.0L engine and a IHI VF24 turbo ?????

Andy.F

Maybe it was a misprint ? VF34 ???

The rollers at Star performance have a fixed run up time. Regardless of the power produced, they will hold the rpm back to a standard rate if increase.
WL appeared to be a quicker run up if you had more power ? More like an inertia roller than an eddy current type (which I believe they are) ?

carlos_hiraoka

(posted by Rich Wild)

Deep Singh

AndyF(or anyone!) I read that power increased 30 BHP by changing the inlet to the turbo from 90 degs to straight feed.What exactly does that mean and does it apply to my STi7 with VF30.
Many thanks,Deep.

nom

Nope deep - doesn't work for you!
Just the older-style TD05, which came in at an odd angle. They sorted it out (sort of) later & it's been the basically the same for all since.