Feasability study for DIY Engine build
31 December 2002, 02:48 PM
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as the name suggests !
being as Mr wallis was moaning about the content of this here forum
Now where to start (these are just thoughts as they pop in to my head, please flame, agree, or discuss as required.
Block, which one ?
Obviously closed deck !
but talk on here somewhere of "fully" closed deck
Is there a semi closed then ??
I assume Legacy pre 94 are all closed deck.
How much spondooly £££££ for one from a scrapper ??
Shall not rabble on about what I want to do with it yet, lets just get the best type of block in mind first...
edit to add :
would it be something you lot would be interested in seeing posted here If I do go ahead ?
Cheers
Andy
[Edited by Fuzz - 12/31/2002 4:09:15 PM]
being as Mr wallis was moaning about the content of this here forum
Now where to start (these are just thoughts as they pop in to my head, please flame, agree, or discuss as required.
Block, which one ?
Obviously closed deck !
but talk on here somewhere of "fully" closed deck
Is there a semi closed then ??
I assume Legacy pre 94 are all closed deck.
How much spondooly £££££ for one from a scrapper ??
Shall not rabble on about what I want to do with it yet, lets just get the best type of block in mind first...
edit to add :
would it be something you lot would be interested in seeing posted here If I do go ahead ?
Cheers
Andy
[Edited by Fuzz - 12/31/2002 4:09:15 PM]
31 December 2002, 03:02 PM
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Block... depends on what you want to achieve...
AFAIK...
EJ20 Open Deck
EJ20 Closed Deck (this is what my new one is)
EJ22 Open Deck
EJ22T? Closed Deck (Like rocking horse ****)
EJ25 Open Deck.. (Get the deck closed by COBB) Like christianR's
Then you have the choice of crank which helps decide what stroke you run...
Obviously you can bore the block out a bit..
I got my closed deck block reasonably cheap... they turn up for upto £600
AFAIK...
EJ20 Open Deck
EJ20 Closed Deck (this is what my new one is)
EJ22 Open Deck
EJ22T? Closed Deck (Like rocking horse ****)
EJ25 Open Deck.. (Get the deck closed by COBB) Like christianR's
Then you have the choice of crank which helps decide what stroke you run...
Obviously you can bore the block out a bit..
I got my closed deck block reasonably cheap... they turn up for upto £600
31 December 2002, 04:40 PM
#3
The only legacy which hasn't had a CDB appears to have had an engine changed, probably to a later impreza one.
Due to the scarcity of closed deck blocks in general I'm looking at getting them closed by a welding company. This is nice because it means people with phase 2 engines don't need to get a new crank to go with a phase 1 closed deck block.
Depends on the power you want to acheive. Harvey's engine still has the originl block in, and it can be improved by converting to uprated head studs instead of bolts.
There is some debate as to the most economical way to do it. Some uprate the rods and pistons, some do just the pistons, some just put in an Sti engine and be done with it (paticularly in the US).
Pistons and rods are about £700 for a set of each, so that's £1400 already if you go the whole hog.
You can buy my Sti5 short engine for much less than the price of a rebuild if you're not looking at a 400hp monster.
Paul
Due to the scarcity of closed deck blocks in general I'm looking at getting them closed by a welding company. This is nice because it means people with phase 2 engines don't need to get a new crank to go with a phase 1 closed deck block.
Depends on the power you want to acheive. Harvey's engine still has the originl block in, and it can be improved by converting to uprated head studs instead of bolts.
There is some debate as to the most economical way to do it. Some uprate the rods and pistons, some do just the pistons, some just put in an Sti engine and be done with it (paticularly in the US).
Pistons and rods are about £700 for a set of each, so that's £1400 already if you go the whole hog.
You can buy my Sti5 short engine for much less than the price of a rebuild if you're not looking at a 400hp monster.
Paul
31 December 2002, 04:45 PM
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Pavlo or anyone that knows the answer, im about to purchase a ej20 closed deck for my rebuild would i have to get a different crank???? Whats the difference between the two??? I was thinking of the WRC STI uprated crank, would that fit???
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 12/31/2002 5:10:31 PM]
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 12/31/2002 5:10:31 PM]
31 December 2002, 05:22 PM
#6
Gez,
I think the only difference between the std Sti crank and the uprated Sti one, is that the uprated one is Nitrided or similar.
Yes you would need a new crank to fit the closed deck block, or some machining on the block to enable a phase 2 crank to be fitted to a phase 1 block. The phase 1 hs thrust bearings in the centre, phase 2 on back of the engine.
Like I said, I am getting the first trial blocks welded in the new year, so I will be able to give you an idea of price and availability.
The std crank is not seen as a week link. In most of the 2.5 conversions with 500+hp, all I've seen advertised is a Nitrided std crank.
Paul
I think the only difference between the std Sti crank and the uprated Sti one, is that the uprated one is Nitrided or similar.
Yes you would need a new crank to fit the closed deck block, or some machining on the block to enable a phase 2 crank to be fitted to a phase 1 block. The phase 1 hs thrust bearings in the centre, phase 2 on back of the engine.
Like I said, I am getting the first trial blocks welded in the new year, so I will be able to give you an idea of price and availability.
The std crank is not seen as a week link. In most of the 2.5 conversions with 500+hp, all I've seen advertised is a Nitrided std crank.
Paul
31 December 2002, 05:27 PM
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Sorry for sounding a bit dumb but can a std crank be nitrided??? If so it would be far cheaper depending on how much it costs to nitride a crank, to buy a crank from subaru and get it nitrided elsewhere. Am i right in saying that??
Gez
Ps i dont know if you know this but is the STI uprated item for phase 1 or phase 2 blocks?
[Edited by Gez - 12/31/2002 5:29:07 PM]
Gez
Ps i dont know if you know this but is the STI uprated item for phase 1 or phase 2 blocks?
[Edited by Gez - 12/31/2002 5:29:07 PM]
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31 December 2002, 05:30 PM
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PS You can get a Phase II crank to fit a Phase I block - and it does have the advantage of larger journals - however it is extremely difficult as you have to maching in and match a new thrust bearing into the block - at less than a thou'.
Very difficult - I looked into doing this - it was cheaper to buy a new Phase I crank than get the modification done to the block.
[Edited by Trout - 12/31/2002 5:31:18 PM]
Very difficult - I looked into doing this - it was cheaper to buy a new Phase I crank than get the modification done to the block.
[Edited by Trout - 12/31/2002 5:31:18 PM]
31 December 2002, 07:43 PM
#10
Trout,
welding up a phse 2 block will be cheaper than a s/h closed deck block and new crank.
Gez,
Yes, pretty much any ferrous object can be nitrided. It's the sort of thing you would do to a Mini or Pinto engine as a matter of course. It hardens the surface and helps prevent fatigue forming cracks in the surface.
Another thing you can do is to Cryo treat the crank, basicallyhold the crank at -200'C in liquid nitrogen for a while. It increases touchnes, improves wear and fatigue charactristics. Again this works on any ferrous part, and may even yield good results on Alumnium based parts. There is a company that advertises in Racetech that does it.
Paul
welding up a phse 2 block will be cheaper than a s/h closed deck block and new crank.
Gez,
Yes, pretty much any ferrous object can be nitrided. It's the sort of thing you would do to a Mini or Pinto engine as a matter of course. It hardens the surface and helps prevent fatigue forming cracks in the surface.
Another thing you can do is to Cryo treat the crank, basicallyhold the crank at -200'C in liquid nitrogen for a while. It increases touchnes, improves wear and fatigue charactristics. Again this works on any ferrous part, and may even yield good results on Alumnium based parts. There is a company that advertises in Racetech that does it.
Paul
31 December 2002, 07:58 PM
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Pavlo please let me know when you have results in the closed deck block modification as i will be very interested in carrying out the modification instead of buying a second hand one.
Gez
Gez
31 December 2002, 08:19 PM
#12
I will do. The major concerns are distortion, and stability. It may be that it's only viable if you're going to rebore the engine anyway, as many people will be.
We will see in a few weeks.
Paul
We will see in a few weeks.
Paul
31 December 2002, 08:50 PM
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Paul,
welding up a Phase II block will be cheaper - oh will it.
Well - welding it up might be cheaper - but making a proper, even semi-closed deck block costs at least as much as a new crannk and second-hand Phase I CDB.
I have certainly not come across anyone in the UK who has done it successfully - and properly. The best I have seen is to weld in shaped blocks - which, IMHO, is not the way to do it.
To do it properly requires heat cycling of the block and very precise build up of material to destress and set the closing with no distortion. In Oz this costs upwards of A$400 - but shipped to the UK - same price as block and crank
Trout
PS If you have found someone in the UK who can do it properly then let me know....
welding up a Phase II block will be cheaper - oh will it.
Well - welding it up might be cheaper - but making a proper, even semi-closed deck block costs at least as much as a new crannk and second-hand Phase I CDB.
I have certainly not come across anyone in the UK who has done it successfully - and properly. The best I have seen is to weld in shaped blocks - which, IMHO, is not the way to do it.
To do it properly requires heat cycling of the block and very precise build up of material to destress and set the closing with no distortion. In Oz this costs upwards of A$400 - but shipped to the UK - same price as block and crank
Trout
PS If you have found someone in the UK who can do it properly then let me know....
31 December 2002, 09:15 PM
#14
\m/ ^_^ \m/
i've got 3 EJ20 engined cars sitting on my drive right now
you can have one if you want, 2 grand and you get a free bodyshell, interior, wheels, brakes, drivetrain, elect.......................bargain
kev
you can have one if you want, 2 grand and you get a free bodyshell, interior, wheels, brakes, drivetrain, elect.......................bargain
kev
31 December 2002, 10:18 PM
#15
PS If you have found someone in the UK who can do it properly then let me know....
I am very aware of the problems involved. And as you're talking about blocks, I'm sure you been in contact with SMG about doing it.
But here's the thing, I'm not going to an engine builder to do the welding, I'm going to a welding company. We will see how they get on, but from the pictures I've sent, they say it's no problem, they can control the process well, and have done many automotive castings in the past.
The proof of the pudding however is in the eating, and for me they have 2 blocks to get it right on, I have already figured I'm gong to have to scrap the first one they do, which is why i got one with a broken bell housing.
Paul
31 December 2002, 10:42 PM
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The "correct" procedure for converting an open deck block into a closed deck block is to heat the aluminium to about 400 degrees and then to start plasma welding in the new material. Once the material has been added, the whole assembly needs to be allowed to cool down and then the surface needs to be skimmed to true it up again. The next phase is to heat the block up again and allow it to cool again to de-stress it further. Once cool it will need another light surface skim. Finally the block needs to be heat treated, which involves heating it up again and cooling it in a controlled manner to get the the desired properties. A final skim will then finish the block off and it will be ready for action, and it will not distort once the engine is build up and operated, even under very harsh conditions. There is one caveat in all this; the block mating surface must remain absolutely flat (to within 10 microns), if it distorts then the block is fit for the bin.
Obviously this isn't the sort of thing that you can do with a MIG welder in your garden shed, you need a temperature controlled oven and ideally the plasma welding should be done in an inert gas atmosphere (Argon or similar). It is possible to just weld in little fillets with a TIG, but the block will distort in use because it hasn't been de-stressed. Furthermore the crystal structure in the base material will have been radically altered (plasma welding is a very traumatic process for the metal!), it will act as a focal point for stress fractures etc, hence the need to fully heat cycle and then re-heat-treat the whole assembly so as to homogenise the structure.
I would suggest that if one were to go to all this trouble then it would make more sense to weld in a couple of deck plates and re-liner the whole block so that it would allow the internal geometry to be brought closer to square (for a 2 litre, that would be 86mm x 86mm but there's crank clearance issues with 86mm stroke on a 52mm big end, but one could use offset big end caps with a 48mm big end journal to get close). The introduction of a smaller bore liner would allow more "meat" which would reduce the tendency of the bore to "barrel" under high pressure. The deck plate would of course have water channels which match the head (pretty much like the closed deck blocks).
The squarer geometry would increase mean gas velocity in the intake thus improving combustion speed, while the smaller diameter bore reduces side loads, but this comes at the price of needing an improvement in cylinder head gas flow (longer stroke engines always need "freer" heads than short stroke). The "catch" is that one would need to add a whopping 25mm to each block half to achieve this geometry, in addition to running the 48mm or maybe even 45mm big ends with offset big end caps. On the plus side, a very major increase in power could be realised.
Some food for thought, the Cosworth is widely regarded as one of the most potent 2 litre lumps; it runs an iron closed deck block with a 91mm piston and 77mm stroke, the rod length is quite close to that of an EJ series Subaru engine. It's not uncommon to get 500BHP out of a 2 litre Cosworth lump. As far as powerful Japanese 2 litre engines go, the Toyota 3S-GTE is one of the best. It runs arguably "perfect" internal geometry, a square engine (86 mm bore, 86mm stroke) with 1.75:1 conrod ratio; not surprisingly these engines are able to run even more power than the Cosworth. A well built 3S-GTE will run 375BHP day to day without breaking a sweat (think over 100,000 miles life expectancy), and over 700 BHP with similar (if not longer) life expectancy as a 500 BHP Cosworth.
Interestingly, given the same basic design of combustion space, the larger the diameter of the piston the lower the tolerable compression for a given fuel and hence also the lower the thermal efficiency... but then there's also the old Yankee saying that "there ain't no replacement for displacement".
Anyway, enough rambling for now
Cheers,
Pat.
PS: WRC cranks come in numerous guises... some of the trick ones run hollow big ends... that'll be nice and cheap then
Obviously this isn't the sort of thing that you can do with a MIG welder in your garden shed, you need a temperature controlled oven and ideally the plasma welding should be done in an inert gas atmosphere (Argon or similar). It is possible to just weld in little fillets with a TIG, but the block will distort in use because it hasn't been de-stressed. Furthermore the crystal structure in the base material will have been radically altered (plasma welding is a very traumatic process for the metal!), it will act as a focal point for stress fractures etc, hence the need to fully heat cycle and then re-heat-treat the whole assembly so as to homogenise the structure.
I would suggest that if one were to go to all this trouble then it would make more sense to weld in a couple of deck plates and re-liner the whole block so that it would allow the internal geometry to be brought closer to square (for a 2 litre, that would be 86mm x 86mm but there's crank clearance issues with 86mm stroke on a 52mm big end, but one could use offset big end caps with a 48mm big end journal to get close). The introduction of a smaller bore liner would allow more "meat" which would reduce the tendency of the bore to "barrel" under high pressure. The deck plate would of course have water channels which match the head (pretty much like the closed deck blocks).
The squarer geometry would increase mean gas velocity in the intake thus improving combustion speed, while the smaller diameter bore reduces side loads, but this comes at the price of needing an improvement in cylinder head gas flow (longer stroke engines always need "freer" heads than short stroke). The "catch" is that one would need to add a whopping 25mm to each block half to achieve this geometry, in addition to running the 48mm or maybe even 45mm big ends with offset big end caps. On the plus side, a very major increase in power could be realised.
Some food for thought, the Cosworth is widely regarded as one of the most potent 2 litre lumps; it runs an iron closed deck block with a 91mm piston and 77mm stroke, the rod length is quite close to that of an EJ series Subaru engine. It's not uncommon to get 500BHP out of a 2 litre Cosworth lump. As far as powerful Japanese 2 litre engines go, the Toyota 3S-GTE is one of the best. It runs arguably "perfect" internal geometry, a square engine (86 mm bore, 86mm stroke) with 1.75:1 conrod ratio; not surprisingly these engines are able to run even more power than the Cosworth. A well built 3S-GTE will run 375BHP day to day without breaking a sweat (think over 100,000 miles life expectancy), and over 700 BHP with similar (if not longer) life expectancy as a 500 BHP Cosworth.
Interestingly, given the same basic design of combustion space, the larger the diameter of the piston the lower the tolerable compression for a given fuel and hence also the lower the thermal efficiency... but then there's also the old Yankee saying that "there ain't no replacement for displacement".
Anyway, enough rambling for now
Cheers,
Pat.
PS: WRC cranks come in numerous guises... some of the trick ones run hollow big ends... that'll be nice and cheap then
01 January 2003, 01:31 AM
#17
pat,
How many blocks have you done (or had done specifically) using the process you describe?
Any reason for Plasma welding in paticular? If you're pre-heating the parts to such a high temperature (400 is too high IMHO), it may not be necessary to use plasma.
The correct welding sequence is also important, making sure there isn't an excessive heat build up in any area of the block, but at the same time not trying to weld on a cooler area of the block.
Also not mentioned is oxygen contamination of the weld areas already present due to corrosion. If the block is used, the crystaline surface needs to be removed, and this my go beyond just removing the surface oxide.
The thermal cycling you mention is a little vague. In paticular, there is no mention of controlled cooling, and you can't just go and 'heat treat' alumnium alloy ***** nilly, it's alloy specific as to whether it can be done at all. Stress relief and heat treatment don't really go together all that well. Although if the alloy is fully treatable you may get away with a relief operation after a solution treatment, precipitation treatment my do the same job though.
You seem to mention a lot of skimming operations. Unlike a rolled sheet, removing 0.lmm (max skim) from the deck will not warp the block. So all the skimming need not be done till the end, especially not until the heat treatment, which will likely create more distortion than the welding itself, if a full solution & precipitaiton treatment is used (polymer quench medium can help when no jigging is available)
As for the block mating surfaces, it's not a big problem to skim them and rebore the main bearing journals, but I'm hopeful it wont get to that, as it would start getting more expensive. 10 micros is only 0.01mm, which sounds more normal, but given the surface finish of the faces as standard, I doubt 0.01 is acheived even from the factory.
Forgive me for nitpicking, but you did bill it as the "correct" process.
Low temperature brazing of fitted blocks is an alternative, one which won't see temps of over 400'C, something I will be experimenting with also.
Paul
How many blocks have you done (or had done specifically) using the process you describe?
Any reason for Plasma welding in paticular? If you're pre-heating the parts to such a high temperature (400 is too high IMHO), it may not be necessary to use plasma.
The correct welding sequence is also important, making sure there isn't an excessive heat build up in any area of the block, but at the same time not trying to weld on a cooler area of the block.
Also not mentioned is oxygen contamination of the weld areas already present due to corrosion. If the block is used, the crystaline surface needs to be removed, and this my go beyond just removing the surface oxide.
The thermal cycling you mention is a little vague. In paticular, there is no mention of controlled cooling, and you can't just go and 'heat treat' alumnium alloy ***** nilly, it's alloy specific as to whether it can be done at all. Stress relief and heat treatment don't really go together all that well. Although if the alloy is fully treatable you may get away with a relief operation after a solution treatment, precipitation treatment my do the same job though.
You seem to mention a lot of skimming operations. Unlike a rolled sheet, removing 0.lmm (max skim) from the deck will not warp the block. So all the skimming need not be done till the end, especially not until the heat treatment, which will likely create more distortion than the welding itself, if a full solution & precipitaiton treatment is used (polymer quench medium can help when no jigging is available)
As for the block mating surfaces, it's not a big problem to skim them and rebore the main bearing journals, but I'm hopeful it wont get to that, as it would start getting more expensive. 10 micros is only 0.01mm, which sounds more normal, but given the surface finish of the faces as standard, I doubt 0.01 is acheived even from the factory.
Forgive me for nitpicking, but you did bill it as the "correct" process.
Low temperature brazing of fitted blocks is an alternative, one which won't see temps of over 400'C, something I will be experimenting with also.
Paul
01 January 2003, 03:46 AM
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At this stage i give up!! I knew i should have paid more attention in those Properties of Materials classes back at uni!
I think im just gonna invest in a ready made closed deck block :-)
Gez
I think im just gonna invest in a ready made closed deck block :-)
Gez
01 January 2003, 12:49 PM
#19
Paul, I think Pat is describing in basic terms how Cobb prepare their 2.5 liter Closed and Semi Closed deck blocks...I doubt that they will have given him the exact information!
However I have spoken to a motorsport engineering company about the same thing, apparently there is a a 60's Ford engine that is used a lot in historic racing where re-linering the block requires a similar heat cycling, welding and machining proceedure...can't remember the full details though
Thi company were more interested in trying Wills Ringing of the bores to the head, using the same technique as they do on Air Cooled flat sixes of the german veriety which reminds me, I must give them another prod about that!
However I have spoken to a motorsport engineering company about the same thing, apparently there is a a 60's Ford engine that is used a lot in historic racing where re-linering the block requires a similar heat cycling, welding and machining proceedure...can't remember the full details though
Thi company were more interested in trying Wills Ringing of the bores to the head, using the same technique as they do on Air Cooled flat sixes of the german veriety which reminds me, I must give them another prod about that!
01 January 2003, 01:15 PM
#20
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Any literature on this "COBB" company anywhere ?
Cheers
Andy
Edit to add : I found what I was looking for after a short search
www.cobb.com
[Edited by Fuzz - 1/1/2003 1:58:14 PM]
Cheers
Andy
Edit to add : I found what I was looking for after a short search
www.cobb.com[Edited by Fuzz - 1/1/2003 1:58:14 PM]
01 January 2003, 01:38 PM
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Phase 1 CDB is meant to be strong so many people use it for rebuild. According to many, Subaru didnt make Phase 2 CDB. As far as im concerend Suabru offered a CDB and still do as an extra (weird one at that!). I had my original invoice of my car translated and it states that a closed deck block was opted for at a cost of approx £400. I will verify this once my engines is appart. What im wondring is whether a Phase 1 crank is better than a phase two!
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 1/1/2003 1:39:45 PM]
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 1/1/2003 1:39:45 PM]
01 January 2003, 01:44 PM
#24
i was feeling a bit pedantic after new year beer...
David, cheap CDBs are all well and good, but they're not always around when you need them. Do you have any Ej22 and EJ25 blocks available for the same money?
Paul
David, cheap CDBs are all well and good, but they're not always around when you need them. Do you have any Ej22 and EJ25 blocks available for the same money?
Paul
01 January 2003, 03:31 PM
#25
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theres a difference in oil journal sizes between phase 1 and phase 2 cranks iirc and the location of the thrust bearing.
Paul... No unfortunatley not.
I can get plenty of ej20 open deck blocks though..
David
Paul... No unfortunatley not.
I can get plenty of ej20 open deck blocks though..
David
01 January 2003, 05:34 PM
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Quote "But here's the thing, I'm not going to an engine builder to do the welding, I'm going to a welding company."...
...and what makes you think I would go to an engine builder to enquire either...
...you see - extended research network would tell you that there are not many people who have converted semi-closed deck blocks that are of a good quality and have lasted in very high power installations and have proven reliable. And those that do - from the information I can glean - seem to follow the steps that Pat describes.
Could be they are all wrong - and maybe your approach will prove to be very successful - good luck with it - however I already have my block - and have chosen a specific route and am very happy. Of course, Paul, you can demonstrate a far greater understanding of the materials science - but being a simple empiricist I will travel the road I have chosen.
Oh - and BTW - it is a fully closed deck block - oh, and the surface is even flatter than a factory spec item
Trout
...and what makes you think I would go to an engine builder to enquire either...
...you see - extended research network would tell you that there are not many people who have converted semi-closed deck blocks that are of a good quality and have lasted in very high power installations and have proven reliable. And those that do - from the information I can glean - seem to follow the steps that Pat describes.
Could be they are all wrong - and maybe your approach will prove to be very successful - good luck with it - however I already have my block - and have chosen a specific route and am very happy. Of course, Paul, you can demonstrate a far greater understanding of the materials science - but being a simple empiricist I will travel the road I have chosen.
Oh - and BTW - it is a fully closed deck block - oh, and the surface is even flatter than a factory spec item
Trout
01 January 2003, 08:04 PM
#28
Trout,
The problem I have, is that the many of the poeple that have attempted it so far have been engine builders, and when they find it difficult because they don't do it every day, we are told it's this near impossible task.
The likes of Cobb and PerFourMance will tell you how hard it is, and how much time was taken to perfect it blah blah blah. Whereas the welding company looks at it and says they do something like that all the time, and it's not nearly as difficult as an XYZ job they do. And this is pretty much what Pat has said when talking about people doing it their back sheds.
The thing is I intend not to get too wrapped up in the exact process used, I don't need to know. I give it to the welding company and it comes back welded and straight, or that's the plan anyway. Perhaps in the end the proces they use will be exactly as Pat describes, the whole point is it's their job to know that, not mine.
The estimated cost, not including the rebore but including the skimming and pre/post cleaning is about £250.
Edited to add:
Not all phase 1 are closed deck, all after 96 certainly not, and most upto 94 are, and lottery in between.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 1/1/2003 8:12:16 PM]
The problem I have, is that the many of the poeple that have attempted it so far have been engine builders, and when they find it difficult because they don't do it every day, we are told it's this near impossible task.
The likes of Cobb and PerFourMance will tell you how hard it is, and how much time was taken to perfect it blah blah blah. Whereas the welding company looks at it and says they do something like that all the time, and it's not nearly as difficult as an XYZ job they do. And this is pretty much what Pat has said when talking about people doing it their back sheds.
The thing is I intend not to get too wrapped up in the exact process used, I don't need to know. I give it to the welding company and it comes back welded and straight, or that's the plan anyway. Perhaps in the end the proces they use will be exactly as Pat describes, the whole point is it's their job to know that, not mine.
The estimated cost, not including the rebore but including the skimming and pre/post cleaning is about £250.
Edited to add:
Not all phase 1 are closed deck, all after 96 certainly not, and most upto 94 are, and lottery in between.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 1/1/2003 8:12:16 PM]
01 January 2003, 08:12 PM
#29
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Trout
Is your 2.35 going to be ready for Well Lane ? I was considering that route myself, using the 2.0 Ph1 CDB linered out to 97mm on a 79mm crank.
I just couldn't afford the supporting drivetrain mods No way that I could exercise the self control necessary to run with the boost turned down either
Is your 2.35 going to be ready for Well Lane ? I was considering that route myself, using the 2.0 Ph1 CDB linered out to 97mm on a 79mm crank.
I just couldn't afford the supporting drivetrain mods
No way that I could exercise the self control necessary to run with the boost turned down either
01 January 2003, 08:35 PM
#30
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API Engines Ltd has closed deck blocks in stock all the time. Forget welding in bits or plates or spacers, if the block distorts which will not be the responsibility of the welders you'll have spent a pile of dough on an alloy ingot shaped like a Subaru block.
Our used blocks are £450 and we currently have over a dozen in stock!!
01926 614333
Why bother with anything but the real deal?
Our used blocks are £450 and we currently have over a dozen in stock!!
01926 614333
Why bother with anything but the real deal?