ScoobyDoo555

Need some advice please.....

Just bought an MY99 4dr Turbo. Was about to pick it up from the dealers tomorrow. Had a phonecall from the dealer saying that whilst the car was in for an MOT, the dealer mechanics noticed that Number 2 piston is knocking. Obviously, this has a knock-on effect to my picking up the car tomorrow.

However, is number 2 knocking also known as Piston Slap?

If not, what is it?

The dealer has said that I can't have the car until they & Subaru have sorted out the problem (good), as it will be at no cost to me I presume that I could be looking at a new engine

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Dan

john banks

Walk away if in any doubt. A car with a new engine will look suss when you come to sell. There are plenty of MY99/00 to choose from. Run away IMHO. Sorry if this gives you hassle.

ScoobyDoo555

All repairs/replacement items will be performed under Subaru warrantee though.....

Surely, this will count for something when p/ex back at a dealer when I come to change the next car.....

I've already paid my (non-refundable) deposit (standard dealer practice apparently)......

What is this #2 piston knocking ?

Need a bit more info (in general!) before I decide to walk away....

shame really - the car is nice AND they've given me a stonking deal on my Scoob. Before anybody sez, the salesman COULD have kept it quiet. As it stands, Subaru could be paying for a new engine..... waddya think? still walk away?

Dan

scoobyboy

basically the piston in the engine was made slightly to small and thus rattles slightly as it moves up and down the bore some do quieten up a bit when warm or hot but bad ones will rattle all the time this is what is known as piston slap or knock. subaru recognised this and at first with a turbo you had to have a new engine but now you will get a replacement piston. so no need to worry about engine changes. it wont upset the balance of the engine or the running and when you do sell it it should be nice and quiet so you should be able to get top dosh.
when i do piston

ScoobyDoo555

Nice one (to both of you) - this is what ScoobyNet is all about

Can anybody give me some more advice - trying to build up a general concensus....

Dan

R19KET

Piston slap is NOT a common problem with '99 cars, it is really associated with the earlier '97/'98 engines.

How many miles has the car done ?

The '99 engine is very different. Amongst other things, it uses a different piston design, and inlet manifold, that was also suspected of adding to the "slap" issue.

I think I would want a full written report from the dealer, with confirmation that this is the problem.

I would also want them to measure the bore for wear, as per the workshop manual, and put the spec's into writing, including that of the replacement piston, and that no.2 injector has also been tested.

I could be wrong, but, I would be very surprised if the dealer could make the "non returnable" deposit stick, given that the car is not in the condition that you were led to believe you were buying it in !

Would the same apply if the car had somehow been involved in a serious accident, in between buying, and collecting ? Even though it could be repaired, would it still be a binding contract ?

If you have any doubts, leave it. It's a buyers market, and with the new 03 coming out, the dealers will be desperate to sell their stock.

Don't allow yourself to be bullied into buying the car, unless you are TOTALLY happy with it.

Mark.

dhorwich

R19 KET,

Are you going up to elvington again on sunday...!!!

Would be great to see some more in car mapping action...!!!!

Dan

ScoobyDoo555

Mark,

You're pretty much echoing what I was thinking. Personally, I don't think I've got a problem - as long as the dealer/Subaru puts it all right.
Like you say, it's a buyer's market at the moment. The car itself is a good deal - as is the p/ex on my existing turbo. Hence my inclination towards looking into this particular car in more detail

As it would be p/ex'd for a newer one in uears to come (at a dealer), I wouldn't have a problem with having a new engine....

Now, a repaired engine.... that's a bargaining chip!!!!

Any further thoughts?

CHeers,

Dan

nichop

If your going to px it later on, the a new engine will not be an issue. I recently had front end shunt just as dealer was about to buy car off me. Expected it would affect value but didn't at all. as long any work is done properly they don't care.
Personally i'd rather have whole new engine with 3 yrs warranty and any other potential probs sorted, rather than that one piston changed.

PS My MY99 has always knocked when cold. Clears after a minute or so. No probs

[Edited by nichop - 10/24/2002 11:40:59 PM]

scoobyboy

you would be hard pushed to get a new engine from subaru as the replacement piston is now available. and if you did get one it would be a reconditioned type not brand new, i've been there with customers cars. so getting rid of it that way is a bit hit and miss.
as for measuring the bore i doubt you would see any fault or abnormal measurements as the undersize piston was only 60 microns to small. the replacement piston you get is made with a very slight ovality to the skirt to take out the difference in size which i've tried measuring and both readings came out the same!
the new piston would be covered by the 3 yr warranty on parts so if it went then claim on the warranty and it's up to subaru to put it right.
we had an engine go after melting no.2 piston he had done 101,000 mls and got a new recon engine new ecu and injectors.

ScoobyDoo555

Bang on ScoobyBoy -

Just spoke to the Subaru mechanic about this car.....

No new engine.
No2 piston will be replaced, cylinder cleaned and re-bored (if necessary)

Cause -

probable faulty fuel injector on #2, causing overheating

15hrs to strip and rebuild + time to repair engine & replace piston.

Going over tomorrow to look at it.

Waddya reckon?

Dan

PS, I also asked them how they found the problem (didn't make sense that it went in for an MOT and next thing I know, there's a knocking piston!!)
Apparently, the MOT emissions test just didn't make sense....

EMS

I don´t think it´s a piston, look after the big-end bearings! Piston slap should be gone if the engine is warmed up, if it´s still making a knocking noise it will be one of the bearings.

Mark.

john banks

I would definitely walk away, there is so much choice of MY99/00. The cause is "probable" and not all would agree with it. There is potential for major hassle with a car like this. You are paying fair money for it and should sort out a car without these issues IMHO.

[Edited by john banks - 10/30/2002 7:18:32 PM]

Lan Man

Basically,

You gotta way up the risk of more grief with the motor, against the cost of your deposit that you'll lose.
Personally I would listening for something all time, if its not a huge deposit, leave it.
Whats the spec on it.

Lan Man

john banks

Get your deposit back AND walk away should be an option? Not as described as was pointed out earlier.

ScoobyDoo555

Quite wierd quoting yourself but I will know more tomorrow - I'm going to the dealer to look at it. Will have a chat with them and see what the SP is.

Is it worth posting the registration up in general just to see if the old owner's on here?

The spec is :-

MY99 4dr DMB Turbo
Standard apart from:
Air Con
Drilled brakes

Price £13,995 from Listers of Worcester (main dealer)

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Listen to Mr. Banks! He is talking sense! and the price is OTT IMHO

Guy

PS I own a MY99 and would not expect anything near that price

scoobyboy

i myself would have no problem buying a subaru that had had the piston replaced. because i know that i would be covered by the warranty and if anything happens it gets sorted out with out any questions asked at no cost to me, even a new engine.
ems if the big ends are knocking it's had it and not all piston slap goes, if it is bad it can still be heard even when hot.
i think that if you trust the dealership and the fix that subaru came up with then there is no reason not to buy it. i mean how many people out there have probably brought a turbo that has had the piston changed and dont know about it.

ScoobyDoo555

ScoobyBoy - you sound very well informed about this type of thing. Can I assume that you work for a Subaru garage?

Dan

StevieB

Are there any associated risks of having piston slap fixed? Whould be interested to know if people that have had their car fixed have experienced other problems later. Is it a case of living with a known problem which is not supposed to effect engine life. I ask as my 98 is effected, and am considering asking for a good will warrenty claim as the car has only covered 25k.

Steve

john banks

Drilled brake discs will only crack if you use them hard and £14K for a MY99 is well over the top for one that needs a new piston. People were importing them for that 3 years ago. Walk away it is a crappo deal.

Turbo_Steve

OMG..John Banks just used verging-on-harsh language! ("crappo")
That =seriously= means walk away!
Far away!

( John )

WRXBOB

£14k

That money will buy you a new shape!

Check out the For Sale forum, there always coming up for sale...

Listen to Mr Banks

Bob

Example: MY01 WRX with 8,700 miles is £13k see here:
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=145836



[Edited by WRXBOB - 10/30/2002 11:26:27 PM]

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Bob,

I was just going ot post the same link...

frisby

For sub £14k, this is the one you want and it has an extended Subaru warranty!!! Not connected but it looks a nice car.

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=140875

john banks

Steve you should hear me when I change my turbo again It is the magnex downpipe brackets that upset me most

scoobyboy

yeah i do work for a scooby dealership and can honestly say i know of no problems associated with having the piston changed.
just a thought thoughi have changed a lot of cambelt tensioners which can cause a similar sound to piston slap and can quite often be mistaken for it. there is a new modified tensioner to sort this out. to see what type you got look at the paint mark on the bolt that holds the pully wheel to the casting if it's blue then it's the old type if it's green then it's the modified type.

paul w

Jesus christ mate get your deposit and walk away,there are loads of cars out there to chose from,do it tomorrow first thing.