STi 7 PPP - DeltaDash results and impressions
20 October 2002, 01:25 PM
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Chaps,
I went up to Dave T-S' this morning and we did some DeltaDash logging of my standard STi vs. his newly PPP'd one. It was about 3degC and unfortunately, I had a problem with DD so I only have results from the PPP'd car up to 5300 but the results so far are interesting none the less.
All the runs here were from around 1500rpm in 4th, with the foot flat on the floor:
My standard STi Boost
Dave's PPP STi Boost
My standard STi Knock Correction
Dave's PPP STi Knock Correction
My standard STi Injector DC
Dave's PPP STi Injector DC
My standard STi Wastegate DC
Dave's PPP STi Wastegate DC
As you can see, my car has nearly reached peak boost at 3450rpm, 14.79psi (1.02bar) and reaches full boost at 4478rpm, 15.4psi (1.06bar). Dave's car is almost at full boost at 2880rpm, 14.5psi (1bar) and is at full boost by 3033, 15.2psi (1.04bar). Now, Dave also has a boost gauge and it is obvious from that that the boost the ECU sees is not the real boost figure which would imply that Prodrive have used a Boost clamp like on the WRX PPP. Dave's gauge actually reports a peak of 1.35bar which slowly tails to the redline (hopefully Dave can tell us what the held roughly is once he's driven it a bit more).
So, the PPP brings the boost in earlier and faster/harder and the difference can be felt on the road. What the figures unfortunately didn't capture is the fact that the car pulls very strongly now, all the way to the redline. On mine, it's hardly worth going over 6-6.5k rpm at the moment (though it's still only 2.5k miles old so it's still tight).
The improvement in sound is a much deeper burble at idle and on boost, it doesn't boom like a full decat does, it's a kind of hard bark sound. It's not that much louder on full boost than the standard car and still sounds quite similar (but louder and harder) from inside the car. I like the sound a lot but I'm sure many will want it much louder. One thing I didn't think much of was the quality of the welding on the back box where the tail pipe exits. It was very messy with some blobs of weld but other than that, well made.
All in all, a very good package and if the warranty is important to you, very worthwhile.
Any comments from the ECU boys? (Bob, Stephen, JohnB, Mark, Pat etc.)?
Ta,
Matt
I went up to Dave T-S' this morning and we did some DeltaDash logging of my standard STi vs. his newly PPP'd one. It was about 3degC and unfortunately, I had a problem with DD so I only have results from the PPP'd car up to 5300 but the results so far are interesting none the less.
All the runs here were from around 1500rpm in 4th, with the foot flat on the floor:
My standard STi Boost
Dave's PPP STi Boost
My standard STi Knock Correction
Dave's PPP STi Knock Correction
My standard STi Injector DC
Dave's PPP STi Injector DC
My standard STi Wastegate DC
Dave's PPP STi Wastegate DC
As you can see, my car has nearly reached peak boost at 3450rpm, 14.79psi (1.02bar) and reaches full boost at 4478rpm, 15.4psi (1.06bar). Dave's car is almost at full boost at 2880rpm, 14.5psi (1bar) and is at full boost by 3033, 15.2psi (1.04bar). Now, Dave also has a boost gauge and it is obvious from that that the boost the ECU sees is not the real boost figure which would imply that Prodrive have used a Boost clamp like on the WRX PPP. Dave's gauge actually reports a peak of 1.35bar which slowly tails to the redline (hopefully Dave can tell us what the held roughly is once he's driven it a bit more).
So, the PPP brings the boost in earlier and faster/harder and the difference can be felt on the road. What the figures unfortunately didn't capture is the fact that the car pulls very strongly now, all the way to the redline. On mine, it's hardly worth going over 6-6.5k rpm at the moment (though it's still only 2.5k miles old so it's still tight).
The improvement in sound is a much deeper burble at idle and on boost, it doesn't boom like a full decat does, it's a kind of hard bark sound. It's not that much louder on full boost than the standard car and still sounds quite similar (but louder and harder) from inside the car. I like the sound a lot but I'm sure many will want it much louder. One thing I didn't think much of was the quality of the welding on the back box where the tail pipe exits. It was very messy with some blobs of weld but other than that, well made.
All in all, a very good package and if the warranty is important to you, very worthwhile.
Any comments from the ECU boys? (Bob, Stephen, JohnB, Mark, Pat etc.)?
Ta,
Matt
20 October 2002, 03:00 PM
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Rob,
I do. I've got to go out now but I'll try and do it later. Is it just the Miltek that you have on your car Rob? I've got three DD files, timed at 19:31.06, 19:34.15 and 19:37.28. If you could remind me of what your did in each of these logs, I'll try and chop them about so they are comparible with the above logs. I'll also post the full versions for comparison.
Cheers,
Matt
I do. I've got to go out now but I'll try and do it later. Is it just the Miltek that you have on your car Rob? I've got three DD files, timed at 19:31.06, 19:34.15 and 19:37.28. If you could remind me of what your did in each of these logs, I'll try and chop them about so they are comparible with the above logs. I'll also post the full versions for comparison.
Cheers,
Matt
20 October 2002, 09:33 PM
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Matt,
I can't remember at the moment and I'm away from home, however have a look at the text on each file it should tell you there.
And yes it was just the Milltek fitted.
Cheers,
Rob.
[Edited by Rob D - 10/20/2002 9:35:52 PM]
I can't remember at the moment and I'm away from home, however have a look at the text on each file it should tell you there.
And yes it was just the Milltek fitted.
Cheers,
Rob.
[Edited by Rob D - 10/20/2002 9:35:52 PM]
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21 October 2002, 04:41 PM
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OK,
At the request of Rob, here are some more comparisons. Rob has the Miltek on his STi and he took these logs which are compared with Dave's STi logs:
Dave's PPP STi Boost in 5th
Rob's Miltek'd STi Boost in 5th
Dave's PPP STi Boost in 4th
Rob's Miltek'd STi Boost in 4th
(Note: because the time scales are different, the shapes of the graphs are not necessarily comparable, but the values are. Also, because of the Boost clamp, the top end values of Boost on the PPP are now shown which makes the top of the PPP Boost graph incorrect.)
So, the held Boost with the Miltek in 4th is around the 14.6psi - 15.2psi (around 1bar) and the PPP is somewhere around the 1.2bar figure going by Dave's Boost gauge (and my dodgy memory
). On the PPP, 14.49psi (1.0bar) is hit at 2900 and the Miltek at 3060. Hardly anything in it on the spool up front then so the gains the PPP has over the Miltek alone, presumably just come from running a little more held boost through the range.
Considering it's just an exhaust, I'd say the Miltek does quite well and is probably (IMHO), the leading non-warranty friendly competitor to the PPP.
Anyone else got any PPP data to share with us?
Ta,
Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 10/21/2002 4:46:57 PM]
At the request of Rob, here are some more comparisons. Rob has the Miltek on his STi and he took these logs which are compared with Dave's STi logs:
Dave's PPP STi Boost in 5th
Rob's Miltek'd STi Boost in 5th
Dave's PPP STi Boost in 4th
Rob's Miltek'd STi Boost in 4th
(Note: because the time scales are different, the shapes of the graphs are not necessarily comparable, but the values are. Also, because of the Boost clamp, the top end values of Boost on the PPP are now shown which makes the top of the PPP Boost graph incorrect.)
So, the held Boost with the Miltek in 4th is around the 14.6psi - 15.2psi (around 1bar) and the PPP is somewhere around the 1.2bar figure going by Dave's Boost gauge (and my dodgy memory
). On the PPP, 14.49psi (1.0bar) is hit at 2900 and the Miltek at 3060. Hardly anything in it on the spool up front then so the gains the PPP has over the Miltek alone, presumably just come from running a little more held boost through the range.Considering it's just an exhaust, I'd say the Miltek does quite well and is probably (IMHO), the leading non-warranty friendly competitor to the PPP.
Anyone else got any PPP data to share with us?
Ta,
Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 10/21/2002 4:46:57 PM]
21 October 2002, 05:01 PM
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Hi Matt,
You mention a problem with DeltaDash at high RPM.
This is actually a problem with the ECU - at high revs, it becomes very busy, too busy to reply to the diagnostic requests. Try reducing the number of items that you are logging, plus increase the interval between data captures. This should allow you to capture the data that you need.
From the boost plot, it looks like the ECU has the mappable boost module, like the WRX PPP. No negative knock correction apparent, so that's good.
Cheers
Steve
You mention a problem with DeltaDash at high RPM.
This is actually a problem with the ECU - at high revs, it becomes very busy, too busy to reply to the diagnostic requests. Try reducing the number of items that you are logging, plus increase the interval between data captures. This should allow you to capture the data that you need.
From the boost plot, it looks like the ECU has the mappable boost module, like the WRX PPP. No negative knock correction apparent, so that's good.
Cheers
Steve
21 October 2002, 06:50 PM
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Matt,
I did ask a question here but moved it to it's on thread as not to **** up yours
I wonder if you take a look at it and see what you think it could be just me 
HERE
Tony
Ps still with my warrenty but £2K poorer
[Edited by T5NYW - 10/21/2002 6:52:39 PM]
I did ask a question here but moved it to it's on thread as not to **** up yours
I wonder if you take a look at it and see what you think it could be just me HERE
Tony
Ps still with my warrenty but £2K poorer
[Edited by T5NYW - 10/21/2002 6:52:39 PM]
21 October 2002, 08:30 PM
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Steve,
Thanks for your mail. Will try it with less items. I tried logging @ 50ms and 100ms, should I need to go slower than 100?
Tony, replied to your other thread
Matt
Thanks for your mail. Will try it with less items. I tried logging @ 50ms and 100ms, should I need to go slower than 100?
Tony, replied to your other thread
Matt
22 October 2002, 03:42 AM
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Great graphs Matt, they are almost exactly the same as the various STI's Powerstation has converted with our exhaust (Miltek)
As you can imagine we are very pleased with it
Regards
Iain
www.litchfieldimports.co.uk
As you can imagine we are very pleased with it
Regards
Iain
www.litchfieldimports.co.uk
23 October 2002, 08:02 AM
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I believe that the PPP exhaust is made by Scorpion, not by Milltek. I have heard that the sports cat used in both is the same but I think Mike Wood has said that this is not the case.
Hopefully, that makes it clearer.
BTW, does anybody know for sure if the PPP downpipe is a twin dump as JohnS said that it was and looking at one on the car, it looks like it might be but is hard to tell. Dave doesn't think it is....
Anyone?
Ta,
Matt
Hopefully, that makes it clearer.
BTW, does anybody know for sure if the PPP downpipe is a twin dump as JohnS said that it was and looking at one on the car, it looks like it might be but is hard to tell. Dave doesn't think it is....
Anyone?
Ta,
Matt
23 October 2002, 11:53 PM
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Glad to see you all like the PPP!!! Cant wait to test one....
Dave T-S.
Why the change of heart regarding warrenty??? You had a "if it goes wrong ill worry about it then" attitude when modding you WRX's - but now you sing the praises of keeping it "warrenty friendly"...
Why the change of tune??? - did you have some costly warrenty work rejected ?????????
Not having a go - just interested!!
Jza
Dave T-S.
Why the change of heart regarding warrenty??? You had a "if it goes wrong ill worry about it then" attitude when modding you WRX's - but now you sing the praises of keeping it "warrenty friendly"...
Why the change of tune??? - did you have some costly warrenty work rejected ?????????
Not having a go - just interested!!
Jza
24 October 2002, 08:09 AM
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It's probably more to do with the potential cost if it all goes wrong and a warranty claim is refused. There have been a couple of STi's blow up already 
That's my take on the situation but hopefully, you can hear it from the horses mouth....
Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 10/25/2002 7:41:08 AM]
That's my take on the situation but hopefully, you can hear it from the horses mouth....
Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 10/25/2002 7:41:08 AM]
24 October 2002, 09:16 AM
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Jza
Nope, only warranty claim I have had with 6 Imprezas is a battery with a dud cell
Matt has probably summed it up...if your Prodrive bits go wrong, you just dump it at the dealer and say "call me when it's fixed, at your expense"
Nope, only warranty claim I have had with 6 Imprezas is a battery with a dud cell
Matt has probably summed it up...if your Prodrive bits go wrong, you just dump it at the dealer and say "call me when it's fixed, at your expense"
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