johnfelstead

This is the fuel pump assembly i installed in my STi5 TypeRA to reduce fuel surge on right hand corners. It works. Before i used to get surge at 1/2 tank, now i can go as low as 1/8 tank.










[Edited by johnfelstead - 10/17/2002 11:37:05 PM]

john banks

Looks good John. How much and from where may I ask?

johnfelstead

I had mike at scoobymania import it for me.

Cost was too frigin much by the time import duty, japan bank costs, sales tax, vat etc were added on.

I would be inclined to make my own next time its a simple design. the black base section is rubber, the white is plastic although it could be alloy or steel.

All it does is stop the fuel from leaving the pickup area on a righthander and under hard accelertion, which is where the problem lies with the standard assembly.

R19KET

Trout, and I have been developing a more cost effective version, that should be within most peoples budget. WE "couldn't believe it worked" either



Mark.

john banks

Are you for real Mark Will I put the Broquet in the butter tub or not LOL. I actually think you might be being serious. Put me out of my misery

johnfelstead

LOL

That plainly wont work as the tub will melt, it's not petrol resistant. What a muppet.

john banks

You WOULD say that though, you just bought an STi item

R19KET

John,

To be fair, this was a concern, but after about two months of testing, the only thing that dissolved, was the printing on the sides.

You'll notice that I fitted a hose to where the normal return exits, and this is fed back into the tub, keeping a constant flow of fuel onto the filter. It works in an almost identical way to your STi version, but s far cheaper, of course.

There are also some smallish holes, at both ends (iirc, 5x 8mm) to allow the fuel to flow back in quickly, and the modified lid is zip tied in place.

Mark.

johnfelstead

hmmmm, maybe things have changed in the utterly butterly packaging market. When i worked on production line automation at the complex that made these tubs (quite a while ago now) there were issues with petrochems disolving the tubs.

However they felt it was worth investigating further, as some of the butter on the market has some petrochem content, so my knowledge may be outdated.

So how do you find it below 1/8th full? I find its still great in full throttle situations, but has a slight tendency to get surge on very high G righthanders.

R19KET

John,

I'm not a plastics expert, but so far it's showing no signs of deterioration.

To be fair, whilst I came up with the initial idea, we fitted it to Trouts car, at the same time as we re-fitted the original filter to the up rated pump.

Trout had been having some pretty bad surge issues, so it seemed like a good time to test it.

Trout did say that the surge problems he was getting, even with the original pump/filter fitted, had dissapeared. He specifically let the tank run down to the light, and gave it some real stick, but had no surge problems.

We initially tried the larger tub (1kg I think) but it was just to big to manover into position.

Mark.

David_Wallis

Mark,

You are being serious arent you ??



David

mutant_matt

See David - you're having an effect. Even Mark is using your techniques now

Matt

[Dave Wallis Mode]
I need a fuel catching device, let me root around my toolbox for something, nope, nothing there, perhaps something in the bin would do the job......
[/Dave Wallis Mode]

Adam M

Mark,

Do you think i could use the method as an entire replacement for a surge tank up front, or would you use the tub aswell as a dedicated under bonnet system.

I suppose what I am asking is does your method solve the problem enough on its own?

Ken Ross

John F

I assume that the 'box' has some holes below it, to let fuel in ?

If so I'm sure I can get something made up from sheet alu.

Adam M

why bother with sheet ally, if it has been proven that a margerine tub wll work?

Adam M

would have said butter tub, but there was a whole court case about that.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Although I have not tried the 'tub' approach I did run a hose from the petrol return to the top of the original filter bag (fitted on an uprated pump) but spaced it off about 5mm.

I went from Fule surge with anything less than 1/2 a tank to no serge even when the low level light came on mind you I haven't tried the car out on track since the mod...and I've forgotten what's it's like to drive it* now as it's been off the road for over a month

*NB, I don't count driving Pat's Scoob as being like mine, it's like nothing else on earth

mutant_matt

LOL @ Adam

Mark, is this device with the standard fuel pump sufficient or do you need to upgrade that as well? I don't suppose if you know if the STi 7 fuel pump is the same as the old shape cars (which I seem to remember you saying is not up to the job?)?

Cheers,

Matt

johnfelstead

Look at the 4th picture down again, there is a bloody big opening in that side to let the fuel in. With it in that position the fuel cant escape easily when accelerating (in fact it is filled up), or cornering and is most likely to empty under braking when you least need the fuel.

Trout...

Sorry been offline all week.

I have to say the mod works a treat. Mark and I worked hard all day to get it to operate correctly - but even tho we smelt badly of petrol car drives a treat - up a 1-8 hill, empty light on at full throttle got no surge - neither did circling the following roundabout a couple of times and right handers are a bitch on the surge front.

Trout

[Edited by Trout - 10/19/2002 5:11:45 PM]

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Mark: I only use Flora. With your technical grasp of things do you consider these tubs would be equally suitable. Obviously added weight to bhp added is not an issue on this occassion.


Having fitted your Walbro pump surge was evident at 3/8 tank (previously less than 1/4) Followed your advice and re-fitted original pumps filter to new pump. I then modified the pressed bracket that the pump sits on leading down towards the bottom of the tank. Modified is a grand technical term. I got hold of the bloody bracket which sits at an angle and pushed it with some force to a much more vertical position and hence nearer the tank bottom.
No fuel surge round Croft until I passed John (who got out my way immediately), the fuel light was on and half a lap later fuel surge.
BTW not to hijack this thread but I did110.5mls including 24mls local and to and from the circuit at normal road legal speeds and used66.48litres =7.546mpg

R19KET

Sorry for not replying, but my ADSL line has been down for nearly two days now :angry:

Matt:

Fuel surge, and needing an up rated pump are two different issues. I don't know whether the STi7 uses the same, or a different pump, but I'm pretty certain either the tank, or the mounting is different, from earlier models. I know they have been having surge problems in the US, and also recommend up rating the pump, if the car has been modified.

Harvey:

To be honest, I've not tried the "Flora" tub, and I would suggest testing it against petrol deterioration first.

Being able to run on track, with the light on, and only a mod' to the pump/filter height, is pretty impressive, as is bending the bracket with just two fingers of your left hand The Subaru fuel tank design is appauling, and it would be worth anyone planning regular trips to the track, considering a fuel surge tank set up.

Mark.

R19KET

Another idea i had, was that I really ought to let all of those people who thought I was being serious, that it is in fact a JOKE ! And I wouldn't suggest trying it, without first testing the "Tub" for it's integrity in petrol.

However, the basic idea is simple, and based around John F's pic's, that I've had for a while now. I see no reason why a similar mod' wouldn't work as well as the STi product.

On a serious note, one thing that has been tested, is the "fuel return" mod'. The idea is to attach a length of hose from the return exit, and position the other end of the hose onto the filter, zip tying it in place. This means that even when fuel surge occurs in the tank, the fuel returning from the rails acts as a short term supply.

In practice, this has actually worked very well, as Tim W, and Trout will testify to.

Mark.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

NOW he tells us it was a joke

Just as I'd got the pump out for the n'th time and was carrying out a prolonged soak test on various tubs in neat NF...Blueband seams to be holding up well, with Tesco's own brand coming a close second

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Tim: While you are at it do a test on Flora for me.
On a more serious note, by zip fasteners do you mean cable ties?
I deliberately did not use any on my mod as I thought the petrol would have a detrimental effect on the plastic.???

johnfelstead

LOL

David_Wallis

Metal boxes anyone

Matt

David