What is a ppp and what is a dawes??
10 March 2002, 08:46 PM
#1
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Right then here I go.
I had a MY00 that hesitated like ****, so I changed the ECU for a AE801, and the hesitation went away. I then wanted more power, so I fitted a Dawes and ran it at 1.2 bar (on my crappy gauge) just under fuel cut
with a full decat. It was rapid. I had a play with an RB5 WRSport on a private road and there was nothing in it. We both had full decats, and seriously were matched in acceleration. When we swapped over cars, for a test we found the PPP car had more torque, where as the Dawes car had more Turbo acceleration. 
Very hard to describe. Less gear changes in the PPP car though!
I got rid of the MY00 and bought the same RB5. Loved the car and the power, but needed more. I got a Tek 2.5 from John Banks and was amazed at the difference. Better low down and high torque, and the engine was much smoother. I can confirm a car with a PPP is slower than a car with a Tek 2.5. I've had the ECU for four / five months and I WOULDN'T go back to a PPP ECU.
Mate has a MY99 with a PPP and we swapped ECUs for a few days, he's now got a Tek 2.5 on order. What can I say other than the few days I had the PPP ECU back in were terrible. I didn't enjoy the drive as much.
To reinforce what Saxoboy has said a Tek 2.5 car will **** all over a PPP car, god knows what the custom Tek 3 would be like I remember coming off a roundabout in the wet in second pressed the accelerator after the car was in a straight line and balanced, and the car of the car started to come around.....I had all wheels spinning without WOT
Cheers Phill C
PS
Mods now :-
ITG
Full Scoobysports
Tek 2.5
Clear lights all round (orange been removed
)
Defi's including EGT
All usual RB5 WR stuff
Nice Ice
SO3s
STi strut brace
Pro drive Cambers
Braided brake hoses and ???? pads (that clunk
)
New Mods planned :-
FMIC
Motec ECU with anti lag and water injection
New internals for my spare engine
NOS
More Defi gauges
more ice
[Edited by babber - 10/3/2002 8:54:19 PM]
I had a MY00 that hesitated like ****, so I changed the ECU for a AE801, and the hesitation went away. I then wanted more power, so I fitted a Dawes and ran it at 1.2 bar (on my crappy gauge) just under fuel cut
with a full decat. It was rapid. I had a play with an RB5 WRSport on a private road and there was nothing in it. We both had full decats, and seriously were matched in acceleration. When we swapped over cars, for a test we found the PPP car had more torque, where as the Dawes car had more Turbo acceleration. Very hard to describe. Less gear changes in the PPP car though!I got rid of the MY00 and bought the same RB5. Loved the car and the power, but needed more. I got a Tek 2.5 from John Banks and was amazed at the difference. Better low down and high torque, and the engine was much smoother. I can confirm a car with a PPP is slower than a car with a Tek 2.5. I've had the ECU for four / five months and I WOULDN'T go back to a PPP ECU.
Mate has a MY99 with a PPP and we swapped ECUs for a few days, he's now got a Tek 2.5 on order. What can I say other than the few days I had the PPP ECU back in were terrible. I didn't enjoy the drive as much.
To reinforce what Saxoboy has said a Tek 2.5 car will **** all over a PPP car, god knows what the custom Tek 3 would be like
I remember coming off a roundabout in the wet in second pressed the accelerator after the car was in a straight line and balanced, and the car of the car started to come around.....I had all wheels spinning without WOT Cheers Phill C
PS
Mods now :-
ITG
Full Scoobysports
Tek 2.5
Clear lights all round (orange been removed
)Defi's including EGT
All usual RB5 WR stuff
Nice Ice
SO3s
STi strut brace
Pro drive Cambers
Braided brake hoses and ???? pads (that clunk
)New Mods planned :-
FMIC
Motec ECU with anti lag and water injection
New internals for my spare engine
NOS
More Defi gauges
more ice
[Edited by babber - 10/3/2002 8:54:19 PM]
02 October 2002, 05:04 PM
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Dawes = manual boost controller that is near magical in what it does
PPP = prodrive performance pack.
Both deliver about the same performance. One is 2 grand, one is 40 quid. One buggers your warranty, one doesn't.
Incendiary enough?
Nick.
PPP = prodrive performance pack.
Both deliver about the same performance. One is 2 grand, one is 40 quid. One buggers your warranty, one doesn't.
Incendiary enough?
Nick.
02 October 2002, 05:05 PM
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PPP = Prodrive Performance Pack, which will up the power of a UK impreza to about 240bhp with a useful gain in the midrange punch. It is very expensive (about £2k) for what it is but the reason for this is that it does not affect your warranty.
A dawes is a manual boost controller (about £35) and if used carefully with a boost gauge can free up similar power but will transform the way the car feels. Lot of people really rave about the dawes (including me) and trust it - others are a little more sceptical but I would suggest that a lot of those are so because of its cheap price relative to other tuning mods.
A dawes is a manual boost controller (about £35) and if used carefully with a boost gauge can free up similar power but will transform the way the car feels. Lot of people really rave about the dawes (including me) and trust it - others are a little more sceptical but I would suggest that a lot of those are so because of its cheap price relative to other tuning mods.
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02 October 2002, 05:20 PM
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Well apart from the fact for the MY01/02 the PPP was £1600 which included labour and VAT. 
It has also been found that Euro imports have to back to country of origin (import origin and not Japan) to have the PPP fitted.
It has also been found that Euro imports have to back to country of origin (import origin and not Japan) to have the PPP fitted.
02 October 2002, 07:55 PM
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Must state that euro imports dont have to go back to country of origin especially when Prodrive fit the pack themselves
Saxo Boy,
Increases of power are up to around 250bhp on the classic shape scoob with PPP, not only does it add the performance but it increases the cars value too nothing else will increase your cars value and the fact that modifying a car beyond this may actually put some people off buying said car
Tony
especially when Prodrive fit the pack themselves Saxo Boy,
Increases of power are up to around 250bhp on the classic shape scoob with PPP, not only does it add the performance but it increases the cars value too
nothing else will increase your cars value and the fact that modifying a car beyond this may actually put some people off buying said car Tony
02 October 2002, 08:05 PM
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Right then , just a quick q relating to the said topic.
I know that the dawes is a manual boost controller , nice and cheap etc.. (would like to see one in action compared to an electronic boost controller)
Im assuming an electronic boost controller is a safer route to touke though ? (i know prices are higher but isnt it better for peace of mind) Do they still offer the same gains in performance or more ? As it is electronic , im guessing you would be able to control everything better (putting faith in todays electronics)
What sort of gains would you be looking at on a Standard 98 UK Turbo ? (i understand it depends on how much you up the boost , but can someone provide examples)
hope i make sense and dont sound an idiot as i too am new to this.
I know that the dawes is a manual boost controller , nice and cheap etc.. (would like to see one in action compared to an electronic boost controller)
Im assuming an electronic boost controller is a safer route to touke though ? (i know prices are higher but isnt it better for peace of mind) Do they still offer the same gains in performance or more ? As it is electronic , im guessing you would be able to control everything better (putting faith in todays electronics)
What sort of gains would you be looking at on a Standard 98 UK Turbo ? (i understand it depends on how much you up the boost , but can someone provide examples)
hope i make sense and dont sound an idiot as i too am new to this.
02 October 2002, 08:26 PM
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This is all new stuff to me guys so please help me. I'm now used to winding up the Jap Import (276bhp) STi7 that I have and am ready for some extra grunt. Can anyone advise me of the best way to do it? This Dawes device sounds interesting, is there a website I can be referred to for more info?
02 October 2002, 09:25 PM
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Nah, PPP stands for performance prevention plan.
Its an initiative by Subaru to prevent you upgrading your STI with a decat and so on by promising that "something better that doesn't void your warranty" is coming along.
It never turns up, you never upgrade: standard car, no warranty claims - happy Subaru... Simple really.
Its an initiative by Subaru to prevent you upgrading your STI with a decat and so on by promising that "something better that doesn't void your warranty" is coming along.
It never turns up, you never upgrade: standard car, no warranty claims - happy Subaru... Simple really.
02 October 2002, 10:54 PM
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I know a lot of people rate the PPP and I respect their opinion but IMO it's frankly ****!! My car would pi55 all over a PPP and it still way under PPP budget with stuff still to get fitted (dp). I found the PPP actually made the car feel slower than the standard car despite the fact it was obviously faster in reality. Great if you want to retain/improve value and keep your warranty but anyone that gets PPP on a car that has no warranty needs their head examined..........IMO of course
From what I've seen the dawes seems to be pretty safe up to fuel cut as long as you service it on time and run good fuel, etc. I was running 1.2 bar (just shy of cut) with only a scoobysport backbox and optimax. When J Banks logged the car at that it was nice and safe in terms of fuelling with only a very slight concern over the way the car was correcting for knock (-2 and holding it rather than spiking?!?) Dawes would IMO become dangerous if you stuck it on an otherwise standard car, applied a fuel cut defender of some kind and cranked her up to beyond 1.2 bar. When we were logging it could be seen that without further decating running the dawes at 1.25 just wasn't viable as the knock correction got worse and worse. The key word here is be sensible
From what I've seen the dawes seems to be pretty safe up to fuel cut as long as you service it on time and run good fuel, etc. I was running 1.2 bar (just shy of cut) with only a scoobysport backbox and optimax. When J Banks logged the car at that it was nice and safe in terms of fuelling with only a very slight concern over the way the car was correcting for knock (-2 and holding it rather than spiking?!?) Dawes would IMO become dangerous if you stuck it on an otherwise standard car, applied a fuel cut defender of some kind and cranked her up to beyond 1.2 bar. When we were logging it could be seen that without further decating running the dawes at 1.25 just wasn't viable as the knock correction got worse and worse. The key word here is be sensible
02 October 2002, 11:05 PM
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SaxoBoy,
you may be shocked to see how quick you can actually get a PPP'd car with very minor mods
As for p155ing all over one, nope you may think that a few bhp will help but only on a motorway and even then you will be very hard pressed to outpace one
Does the PPP make the car feel slower?? errrrm no but you do get use to the power and the delivery which makes you more of a lazy driver in terms of cruising on motorways etc.
Check out the dyno section and well lane you may be shocked at what a PPP can achieve and it still retains more value as a car outright
Tony
you may be shocked to see how quick you can actually get a PPP'd car with very minor mods
As for p155ing all over one, nope
you may think that a few bhp will help but only on a motorway and even then you will be very hard pressed to outpace one Does the PPP make the car feel slower?? errrrm no
but you do get use to the power and the delivery which makes you more of a lazy driver in terms of cruising on motorways etc.Check out the dyno section and well lane
you may be shocked at what a PPP can achieve and it still retains more value as a car outright Tony
03 October 2002, 12:19 AM
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Ok so pi55ing all over was a strong term but my car would honestly take a PPP quite comfortably in its current form.
Have we had this arguement before??
I've driven the PPP and didn't like it and anybody that I've talked to thats had PPP and then started to play around some more (which will screw up warranty and value anyway) usual - after some experimentation - starts to gradually take the PPP components off. First to go is the backbox as the desire for a growl rather than a silly rasp takes over. Then before long such peeps realise they can get good money for the prodrive ECU and they TEK2 or similar a standard MY** ecu with the money made selling it
I don't think you can argue that if warranty isn't important to you (i.e. you don't have one) you can mod better for the same money as the PPP.
Have we had this arguement before??
I've driven the PPP and didn't like it and anybody that I've talked to thats had PPP and then started to play around some more (which will screw up warranty and value anyway) usual - after some experimentation - starts to gradually take the PPP components off. First to go is the backbox as the desire for a growl rather than a silly rasp takes over. Then before long such peeps realise they can get good money for the prodrive ECU and they TEK2 or similar a standard MY** ecu with the money made selling it
I don't think you can argue that if warranty isn't important to you (i.e. you don't have one) you can mod better for the same money as the PPP.
03 October 2002, 09:35 AM
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Y'know SB, I think you've hit nail on head. PPP on it's own is a hell of an expensive mod for what you get, so people get the PPP fitted because they want the warranty...
...then fit a downpipe, etc, and screw that all away.
My car has only a few mods (scoobysport downpipe - wonderful, scoobysport backbox - wonderful, P1 wheels - wonderful, dawes - unbelievable, gauges - essential, piaas - essential at night, geometry set up - very good, k&n induction kit - sounds good, not sure about performance ) and I'm pleased.
Next stage will be Tek2 I believe, or a trip to Dr John to get everything working right.
Although I hear there's a guy in Leeds who is making a FMIC for just £30!!!!
Nick.
...then fit a downpipe, etc, and screw that all away.
My car has only a few mods (scoobysport downpipe - wonderful, scoobysport backbox - wonderful, P1 wheels - wonderful, dawes - unbelievable, gauges - essential, piaas - essential at night
, geometry set up - very good, k&n induction kit - sounds good, not sure about performance ) and I'm pleased.Next stage will be Tek2 I believe, or a trip to Dr John to get everything working right.
Although I hear there's a guy in Leeds who is making a FMIC for just £30!!!!
Nick.
03 October 2002, 06:44 PM
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Just a word of warning
The Dawes is great for standard UK cars looking for a bit more go or used in conjunction with a TEK map like SaxoBoy. Standard UK cars have a reasonable 'saftey' margin with regard to fuelling, however, a Jap STi import or even a P1 for that matter already has more power output than a UK car and the saftey margin is therefore no where near as great. If you factor in the Jap cars need for 100RON fuel minimum when it may be running on Optimax 98 or even 95 RON UL adding a dawes and cranking the boost up may end in tears.
I have run a Dawes for over a year now with an 801 ECU and full decat with no problems, the car has been reliable as has the Dawes, use them with understanding and IMHO you will be fine, just make sure you have a boost guage to know where your at during setup and and AFR to be sure of the mixture at WOT.
PS The Dawes is not a bleed valve!
The Dawes is great for standard UK cars looking for a bit more go or used in conjunction with a TEK map like SaxoBoy. Standard UK cars have a reasonable 'saftey' margin with regard to fuelling, however, a Jap STi import or even a P1 for that matter already has more power output than a UK car and the saftey margin is therefore no where near as great. If you factor in the Jap cars need for 100RON fuel minimum when it may be running on Optimax 98 or even 95 RON UL adding a dawes and cranking the boost up may end in tears.
I have run a Dawes for over a year now with an 801 ECU and full decat with no problems, the car has been reliable as has the Dawes, use them with understanding and IMHO you will be fine, just make sure you have a boost guage to know where your at during setup and and AFR to be sure of the mixture at WOT.
PS The Dawes is not a bleed valve!